<p>hello everyone! (this is my first post)
So i am deciding between princeton and brown and love both schools, but am leaning towards princeton. however, i have heard from many people that brown has a laidback, fun, chill atmosphere while princeton is more competitive and intense. i am definitely willing to work, but i am also a very laidback person so i am wondering if brown would be a better experience for me. any comments would be appreciated!</p>
<p>there are all kinds of people everywhere comprising the whole "laidback" to "intense" spectrum. the only thing that might make princeton more stressful is the fact that there is a policy capping the amount of A's. at brown, you definitely have to work hard to earn your A's but if you earned one, you will get one regardless of how the person next to you did. brown also has the open curriculum, and a pass/fail option on classes.
other folks can probably tell you a lot more about what it is like at princeton</p>
<p>Princeton may be more competitive at times (say, if you run into too many premed or prelaw students :p), but most students are definitely as laidback as students you would find anywhere else. The grade deflation policy dcircle referred to applies for departments as a whole, not for individual classes, so in actuality, the person next to you doesn't have that big of an effect on your grade.</p>
<p>Princeton has a pass/D/fail option, where grades of A+ through C- are converted to "P." Princeton has broad distribution requirements such as taking two "science" classes and two "literature/art/theater/culture" classes (you can imagine how many classes count for each of those). So the requirements aren't burdensome, and you meet lots of different kinds of people in your classes.</p>
<p>Lord Asquith: The grade deflation policy applies</a> to individual classes, though in measuring its success the administration has given grade statistics for broader fields (in order not to release comprehensive class by class breakdowns, I believe).</p>
<p>Well, the article you cited says,</p>
<p>"Princeton's new expectations posit a common grading standard for every academic department and program, under which A's (A plus, A, A minus) shall account for less than 35 percent of the grades given in undergraduate course*s* and less than 55 percent of the grades given in junior and senior independent work." (emphasis added)</p>
<p>Oh, I see how the quote could be misinterpreted. Well, as a Princeton student, I know rather well that the policy applies to departments (not individual courses), as Dean of the College Nancy Malkiel emphasizes frequently.</p>
<p>Compliance with the guidelines is evaluated at the departmental level, but the practical effect is that specific</a> courses either are given target ranges or "reminded" that their grades should be lower:</p>
<p>
[quote]
In Economics, for example, the department agreed on specific target percentages for A grades, depending on the type, category, and level of course. At the beginning of each semester, the chair reminded the faculty of the departmental agreement, adding that "any instructor who feels that there is a special reason to exceed the ordinary maximum may do so, but his or her grade sheet must be accompanied by a memo addressed to the chair explaining the circumstances."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The university may argue that the policy affects only (or mostly) departments, but that's a sleight-of-hand. The effect is to reduce grades across the board and therefore to deflate grades in each class. Ultimately, this either results in an increased level of difficulty or the establishment of an approximate curve -- both of which are done by individual instructors in individual classes.</p>
<p>lilac34: what do you want to major in?</p>
<p>What seems to happen for many departments is that the largest classes, such as intro classes, have a slightly more difficult curve while the more advanced classes have a more generous curve. The idea is to reward students who go for the more difficult classes.</p>
<p>I don't think that the grading issue should affect your decision to go to Brown or Princeton; any graduate program or potential employer will take Princeton's grading policy into account.</p>
<p>To echo comments made in previous responses, the notion that Princeton is more "intense" or "competitive" is unsubstantiated at best, so don't use that as a deciding factor either. If anything Princeton’s grading policy is more honest; at Brown failed courses don’t even show up on your transcript. (If you make a habit of failing courses obviously that is a different story.)</p>
<p>But, of course, there is no “cap” on As at Princeton to begin with. The recommendation that GR Elton refers to (and posts links to) does not place a limit on the amount of As that can be awarded on any level. And the policy was put in place by the faculty and not Princeton University or its administration. Here are two excerpted quotes (mentioning Nancy Malkiel, the Dean of the College at Princeton) taken from the article that GR Elton posted, that support the two preceding claims I made above:</p>
<p>But Zschau, in his view, could assign A's, A pluses and A minuses to just more than a third of the students in his class...Dean of the College Nancy Malkiel said [that] should never happen after the implementation of the administration's new grading plan. "No faculty member should fail to give an A to a student who deserves it," Malkiel told the faculty on April 26, 2004, when the proposal was approved...</p>
<p>Blame, should there be any, should not be placed on her or the administration, Malkiel said. "Let's be clear, first of all: this is not the administration's policy, this is the faculty's policy," she said...What I'm doing on behalf of the faculty is trying to help implement it..."</p>
<p>I'm guessing most students, and most people who followed the faculty vote on the grading policy (when a Daily Prince photographer's pictures of the vote were actually confiscated) would find Malkiel's comments re the grading being a faculty policy laughable at the very least. However, if you are a serious student you can do very well at Princeton; I wouldn't worry about that. Brown students also tell me it's easy to get a B at Brown and hard to get an A. </p>
<p>As an alum interviewer for Brown with a daughter at Princeton, I fully supported her decision for Princeton because of the a) incredible depth of world-class, big-name faculty in virtually any department, available to and interested in undergrads; b) huge endowment that translates into lots of funding for undergrad research, travel, internships and community service trips; c) gorgeous pedestrian campus with easy access to NYC. Keep in mind that Brown is still implementing Ruth Simmons's wonderful Campaign for Academic Enrichment, a push to bring in more faculty, first-year seminars, etc.; it's an effort to emulate features Princeton has had for a long time. Brown is a wonderful place, but Princeton has more to offer in many ways.</p>