Princeton vs. Harvard

<p>Paul Krugmann graduated from MIT and Yale. He is employee of Princeton.</p>

<p>"Also, does Princeton's relatively small endowment factor in a lot?"</p>

<p>Princeton's endowment is hardly small.</p>

<p>In terms of total endowment, Princeton is only behind Yale, Stanford, and Harvard. </p>

<p>In terms of endowment/student, Princeton is the largest in the world.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.inpathways.net/top50feeder.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.inpathways.net/top50feeder.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.nber.org/papers/w10803.pdf?new_window=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nber.org/papers/w10803.pdf?new_window=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Revealed Preference Ranking
Princeton is #6</p>

<p>no one cares jomjom. It's up to the individual.</p>

<p>the answer is no. to whatever question you ask. nuff said. back to my shadowy corner where I will plot the end of the world... but seriously, the differences are so minute at this level that the details are what differentiates the two apart. So this is really a matter of opinion and thus there is not really too much to argue about.</p>

<p>ok, global rankings are dumb - both of these schools are fantastic schools.</p>

<p>Princeton's per capita endowment is the best out of any school. I'm not saying endowment size makes a huge difference, I'm just saying that Harvard's larger endowment is spread more thin, and you should be aware of the fact that Harvard devotes a lot more time and energy to its grad programs, meaning that while it has more raw money, a lot less of it goes to undergrad students. I'd say Princeton in economics, engineering, mathematics, and science has a very, very small edge on Harvard. And Yale for that matter. However not nearly a great enough edge to warrant choosing Princeton over H or Y should you prefer something intangible about H or Y.</p>

<p>"" Harvard's larger endowment is spread more thin, and you should be aware of the fact that Harvard devotes a lot more time and energy to its grad programs, .....""</p>

<p>Most of Harvard's endowment is concentrated on Faculty of Arts and Sciences (Undergrad) and its Per capita endowment a lot bigger than Princeton's. Many of Harvard Grad endowments are not that high, HBS, HLS, HMS has only about 1-2 billion each. Harvard FAS, which is Harvard College and GSAS, has abt $25-30 billion endowment and its enrollment is about the same as Priceton's. Look at Obama's top Economic advisors, they all graduated from Harvard, MIT. no Princeton. Look at rescent Nobel Economics & Science Laureates. Most of them got degree from
Harvard MIT Columbia Yale. no Princeton graduates ( Krugmann is MIT Yale graduate).. Look at Putnam Math competition winners. Princeton consistently ranked below Harvard Calteh MIT Yale
Duke Toronto Stanford .....etc. winning only once.</p>

<p>I go to Princeton. I would ignore the above poster's claim that Princeton is not as good at math as Harvard. The Putnam is a very narrow way to judge the math department. Princeton has one of the best math departments in the world, so if you are interested in physics or math, you should absolutely consider Princeton; moreover, many math and physics majors drop math to go into engineering. In this case, you would be better served by Princeton's engineering department than by Harvard's, which is relatively weak.</p>

<p>With all that said, I would not recommend Princeton over Harvard--at least not unequivocally. In retrospect, I might even have gone to Harvard. I think the Princeton administration is taking every wrong step, and in the upcoming four years, the university will not remain as strong as it used to be. Hear are some things you should keep in mind:</p>

<p>1) The collapse of the financial market will hurt Princeton more than Harvard, since we sent a greater proportion of our kids to Wall Street (alumni donations!). The career services center is geared toward people interested in finance and law school (and of course medical school, but that is a completely different route). While we do have strong alumni representation in many areas, our career services office is not well-equipped to connect us to alumni in Hollywood, Academia, Sports, etc. Although students should certainly be proactive in seeking out alumni, it is much easier with a career office to guide you.</p>

<p>2) Grade deflation will hurt Princeton. Students have always complained about grade deflation, but this is not just some minor annoyance. A recent article in the Daily Princetonian, Some</a> graduate schools, employers still unfamiliar with grade deflation policy - The Daily Princetonian elaborates on some problems I have seen. Read the comments section. It will be elucidating.</p>

<p>3) While Princeton currently has a better social scene than Harvard, I'm not sure how long this will last. With the growth of residential colleges, people who do not go to the eating clubs often live separately from everyone else. This could be good or bad, depending on what you are looking for, but I have found that it further alienates people who were not as attuned to the social scene here to begin with (not that there is anything wrong with that).</p>

<p>4) Princeton may soon see more political activism than Harvard. At least, I can tell that over my four years here, there have been more protests/complaints/anger than before. Maybe this is because of grade deflation, or maybe this is because polarizing political events. Either way, this could be interesting.</p>

<p>5) Based on my experience, the Princeton alumni network is really strong. I see a huge difference between the way alumni share their time with Princetonians, and the way the administration here--Dean Malkiel specifically--is detached from student affairs. </p>

<p>6) Everything listed above--about statistics, name recognition, etc.--should be taken into consideration, but only lightly. If you do have the opportunity to choose between these two schools, please don't base it on which one is marginally more prestigious. In retrospect, the prestige matters very little when you are choosing among the top echelon of schools (Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT, Stanford, Cal-Tech). I think it's remarkably petty to argue that any one of these schools is better--"overall"--than the others. I think that all one could say about them is that they are different, and their character may serve different personalities better than others.</p>

<p>I always say about Princetonians that they are polite and don't drink the koolaide. So when asked to confirm a commonplace about the school, they will gravely state a disclaimer, and in doing so reveal a smallness about their views, a self preoccupation. Their fellows will not point this out to them, however, as they are too polite to do so. So, discussion is not as robust as it might be at old Nassau. Unique and exceptional qualities of Princeton are almost never mentioned on this forum by Princetonians. For example, the P-rade at reunions is so much the most incredible instance of social continuity and intergenerational support at a college that the mind can barely comprehend it. Former Secretaries of State and Nobel prize winners march in it with enthusiasm. Yet I have never heard a single Princenian express any special admiration for it lasting over 4 seconds. It is a wonderful place. Just don't expect to learn very much about it from listening to the people who have gone there.</p>

<p>Very informative post, PolPHD. Of all the issues you raised, Princeton's policy of grade deflation worries me the most. The disadvantages of such a policy are made very clear by the students' anecdotes; the benefits, meanwhile, are virtually impossible to discern.</p>

<p>@ PolPHD: I could be wrong, but wouldn't Caltech be less prestigious than Harvard/Princeton for something like, say, finance?</p>

<p>"Most of Harvard's endowment is concentrated on Faculty of Arts and Sciences (Undergrad) and its Per capita endowment a lot bigger than Princeton's."</p>

<ul>
<li>Not true at all. Princeton's endowment is slightly higher than Harvard's Faculty of Arts and Sciences. 16.4 versus 16 billion (June 2008). Furthermore, there are more students in the latter (which includes undergrad and grad btw). Go troll somewhere else with more accurate information. Clearly on a per capita basis, Princeton's endowment is larger.</li>
</ul>

<p>?If</a> the endowment were smaller, we would have to do less....And in a world where knowledge is</p>

<p>Some</a> graduate schools, employers still unfamiliar with grade deflation policy - The Daily Princetonian</p>

<p>I have written, somewhere, a long post about my 25th Reunion and how it felt to march in the P-rade. When I entered Princeton it was still the old boys' club. By the time I marched down the hill and saw every single student in the graduating class lining the hills I was moved almost to tears. Races, ethnicities, genders. Princeton is a friendly place. Friendly and cheerful and earnest. And people can trash talk all they want and the only harm will be if some kid who would thrive in a green lawn/active social life/very accessible professors place will be swayed by the lemming-like drive to the identified prestige brand currently plaguing college admissions and go to Harvard when they should have gone to Princeton.</p>

<p>But a recent Harvard alum assured me that the university has a very active social scene and very accessible professors (didn't say anything about "green lawns," though). What are you implying, Alumother? :p</p>

<p>A more serious question: did any of you Princeton alumni find grade deflation to be a problem while you were there?</p>

<p>There seems to be an implication in these “Harvard vs. Princeton” discussions that most students who are offered admission to one school are also offered admission to the other. This is not the case. There were 4,297 offers of admission by Harvard and Princeton combined last year. The maximum number of students who could have been offered admission to both institutions was 1,396, which would mean that approximately 2/3 of students could have been offered admission to both schools. However, some educated guesswork suggests that the actual number was between 400 and 800 students who were offered admission to both institutions. If we take the higher number of 800, which is probably too high, that would still mean that fewer than 40% of the students who were offered admission to Harvard and/or Princeton last year were offered admission to both institutions. In other words, this is not a choice that most admitted students are even going to face. If someone has more precise information on cross-admit rates, please share them.</p>

<p>Harvard has Mankiw.</p>

<p>Princeton has John Nash.</p>

<p>woot woot</p>

<p>Choosing a college is a very personal experience. If you haven't visited the campuses, then you should do so. It doesn't matter what the numbers say or what the reputation is, your choice of college should be based on where you think YOU will best flourish and where you will enjoy the best four years of your life. That sounds a little sappy, but I don't think it would be any fun choosing to go somewhere because of statistics and prestige and regretting later that you might have fit better on a completely different campus. </p>

<p>Stop approaching this from an academic angle is my advice. When it comes to Princeton vs. Harvard, you're going to do very well for yourself no matter where you go and what you major in. What feels right to you? When you have that answer, I think you might have found your college. =)</p>

<p>jomjom - you dont know English and are probably an Asian who will be rejected from both Princeton and Harvard. See you later.</p>