Princeton vs. MIT?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
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I studied engineering at Princeton and went to grad school at MIT. Both are outstanding universities. I will attempt to provide some of my experiences at each university.

Pro features of MIT
MIT has the best engineering school in the country. There are more engineering students, more engineering professors, and more engineering courses. There is more of most things in ChE at MIT. His roommates will probably be studying STEM. Some of the liberal arts courses are far better than most people understand. Boston is the best college town in the US. MIT’s engineering contacts are outstanding. There are more MIT engineering alumni than Princeton engineering alumni.

Frat culture is alive and well at MIT.

Similarities
ORFE are very good at both universities. ORFE is a very popular major at Princeton; the Sloan School has been a leader in the field. Employ-ability is probably a wash. Tiger Trek is a sponsored trip to Silicon Valley to visit with companies such as Apple, Facebook, Google, Khan Academy, Telsa Motors, Twitter, Square, Juniper Networks, Hewlett-Packard, and several venture capital firms. Possibly more Wall Street at Princeton and more aerospace at MIT. Grad school acceptance would be similar; however, a student that loves MIT or loves Princeton may do better academically at that school and receive better faculty recommendations for grad school.

Pro features of Princeton
Princeton is focused on providing the best undergraduate experience in this country. The quality of the engineering professors and the quality of the engineering courses are very similar. Engineering education at Princeton began in 1875. The National Research Council has ranked Princeton as having top PhD programs in Chemical Engineering, Civil Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, and Computer Science. At Princeton his roommates may be history majors, economics majors, public policy majors, and a STEM major. Princeton students love their on campus activities so much that they mostly stay on campus. Many Princeton engineering students start their careers as engineers and are promoted into general management positions. The MIT campus looks like it was designed by engineers; the Princeton campus is gorgeous and has many buildings designed by world famous architects. The Princeton campus has dozens of art sculptures around the campus to make art a part of campus life. Since Princeton is half way between the United Nations and Washington D.C. world leaders are constantly giving lectures on the Princeton campus.

The strength of the engineering program at Princeton is that STEM is very strong at Princeton AND students can take outstanding courses in philosophy, the classics, history, sociology and other liberal arts subjects. Google CEO Eric Schmidt discusses his reasons for attending Princeton over a STEM university in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0gtoWwx5Is Half of Princeton students change their major; the variety of strong majors entices students to switch to a new field.

Fraternities are a minor factor at Princeton. One-third of the students choose not to join one of the upper class eating clubs. There are substance free dorms. Your son can find many activities that do not involve “partying” or alcohol. Murray Dodge has free chocolate chip cookies at night.

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Thank you @PtonAlumnus ! Those videos are really interesting. I didn’t know all those tech CEOs were from P. And thank you for laying out your thought process as well, very helpful!

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Both universities have long lists of Tech CEOs. Here are just a few more tech CEOs from Princeton.

About 5 or 10 years ago the CEOs of British Aircraft Corporation, Lockheed Martin, and The Boeing Company were all Princeton MAE alumni. I can only remember two or the three; Philip M. Condit MAE *65 was at Boeing and Norman R. Augustine BSE’57 MS ’59 was at Lockheed Martin. After he retired Norman R. Augustine taught engineering management at Princeton and currently serves on the MAE Advisory council. George Whitesides '96 is the CEO of Virgin Galactic and also serves on the MAE Advisory council. James McDonnell ’21 was the CEO of McDonnell Douglas. Andy L. Tung MAE ’87 is the of COO Dragonair, Hong Kong. George B Rathman *51 was the founder and CEO of Amgen, the world’s largest biotechnology company.

The STEM students at Princeton and MIT are very similar. The SAT math 75th percentile at both Princeton and MIT is 800. Since less than one quarter of the Princeton students are engineers over half of the engineering students may have scored 800 on their math SATs. As might be expected Princeton students score higher on the 75th percentile in critical reading (800 at Princeton to 770 at MIT) and the 75th percentile in writing (800 at Princeton to 780 at MIT).

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I forgot about this link.

The Bloomberg Magazine rated the Top Ten Colleges for Tech CEOs. Bloomberg rated MIT as number 7 and Princeton as number 1. See http://www.bloomberg.com/slideshow/2013-08-29/top-10-colleges-for-tech-ceos.html#slide11

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Thank you, @PtonAlumnus!

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I’m a mechanical engineering student at Princeton. I will concede that MIT is the objectively better STEM school academically; however, I would choose Princeton again in a heartbeat given the choice between the two. For one, Princeton is a much smaller school, with a really strong alumni network that will help in your career throughout your life. Also due to the smaller size, research opportunities on campus abound.

Princeton’s frat life is almost nonexistent, although the eating clubs somewhat take their place. However, many students choose not to participate in activities on “The Street,” and there are plenty of other ways to meet/hang out with friends on campus. There are many close-knit communities on campus that aren’t into drinking/partying, and even in the eating clubs there are non-alcoholic groups and events. Even at parties, I have found that although there is definitely alcohol, there is less social pressure to drink if you don’t want to, relative to other colleges I’ve been to. There are also substance-free dorms (which have the added bonus of being generally quieter/cleaner than regular dorms).

Princeton is perfect for the engineer with a passion for the arts and humanities. The university art museum is amazing, and frequently hosts mixers for students. Campus is gorgeous and in a great location - quiet and isolated, but just a short and inexpensive train ride from NYC and Philly. It also has an amazing history, and the surrounding town is safe and attractive.

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@TheEisgruber - thank you! Can you please say more about the substance-free dorm thing? (Do they have those at MIT as well?) Are they the same as the residence colleges and how does a person indicate a preference about that?

Thank you for your thoughtful answers; they are exactly the kinds of things that DS and we are thinking about. Do you mind if I ask: (a) did you apply to MIT and (b) where are you from originally?

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The substance free dorms are a section of the residential college. For example, one entry way may be designated as substance free. During the summer your son will receive a housing questionnaire. From this questionnaire the university assigns students to a substance free dorm and attempts to match compatible roommates.

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@fretfulmother Like PtonAlumnus said, substance free dorms are within the residential colleges. They are generally a separate building or entryway. To be clear, substance-free dorms do not require that its residents abstain from any substances (alcohol, tobacco, etc.); those substances simply may not be inside the building at any time. Some students who do drink still prefer to live in sub-free housing.

I did apply to MIT; however, I committed to Princeton before hearing back. And I’m originally from California.

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@Boobyhatch - you make a great point. Ironically, since MIT would be a lot cheaper for us, I think DS would feel somewhat more pressure to do a STEM career if he goes to Princeton.

I myself ended up changing what I thought I wanted to do at MIT (though there was never any risk of me majoring in the Humanities, because of my distinct lack of talent).

We have had a very angst-ridden set of conversations since DS came back from MIT’s CPW, which was 99% excellent in nearly every dimension for him. The two big drawbacks were the small Jewish community (relative to Princeton) and our sense that MIT might not stretch DS to grow as a person in the same ways that Princeton would. MIT kind of matches him already, if that makes sense.

One of DS’s favorite aspects of MIT (and please tell me it also exists at Princeton…?!?) - was the really productive options that kids have to have fun, not just an alcohol scene, but e.g. exploring tunnels, or building stuff out of bubble wrap, having long conversations over board games, etc. DS felt like he was making potential friends at every turn, and that made a big impression.

(I should reassure any stereotype-holders about MIT that my DS is the type who plunges in and talks to new people and has a great time in almost any situation - exceptions being heavy drinking or heavy athletics.) So for instance, I was thinking that the new Princeton thing with the week of community service in small groups, will probably lead to lifelong friendships for him…are there other things like that?

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I am not advocating for one or the other but I think this part is being overthought. If he is almost home, why does he need another jewish community at college when he has the entire town he is already used at his disposal?

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@texaspg - I understand your point, but I think it’s important that DS have at least enough of a Jewish community at school that he can (1) get kosher food easily without having to cook all his own meals; (2) have services without having to be an integral part of them (i.e. “if someone wants a Purim service, who can lead it?”). MIT generally does have both of these, but it’s borderline, which is to say - only dinners and some lunches are available kosher without a lot of effort, and many religious services happen but each student is called on for significant volunteering to make it happen.

I would not consider it ideal for him to have to still be part of our home synagogue community instead of really bonding to his new Hillel. I think there are different models for this, and certainly there are religious students of many faiths who do look to churches in their towns instead of campus communities, but I think it would be preferable for DS to have a campus community.

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@fretfulmother - have you checked with MIT about the food availability? I think the colleges should ensure people have this choice available irrespective of the size of the jewish student pool.

I am under the impression that even students of some other faiths depend on kosher food simply because it meets their requirements too.

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@texaspg - yes - there is officially kosher food. In reality, it is only dinners (with some lunches) and it is all “meat” or “parve” i.e. non-dairy, except for special events. This is more than some colleges offer, so I don’t want to sound spoiled! :slight_smile:

When I went from a small midwestern town to MIT in the late 1980s, they had kosher dinners and it seemed incredible to me to even have this option! So it’s workable for DS, yes, but not optimal.

Most kosher-keeping college students are also ok with finding kosher ingredients like cereal, milk, fruit, yogurt in the general dining halls for breakfast. (Some would not be, but for our family it’s ok.)

In comparison, Princeton (and about a dozen other colleges nationwide) has a full 20/week kosher meal availability.

BTW Caltech does not have kosher food available officially on campus. In the late 1990s, a girl told them that was why she was picking MIT instead, so Caltech wooed her by installing a kosher kitchen (for dinners only, in the residence halls). I was there for grad school and ate there occasionally while it existed. About ten (?) years ago, the kosher food was cancelled by Caltech, I think for lack of use. There are Jewish groups around Pasadena, like Chabad, that do try to do outreach and provide some kosher opportunities, but it would not be a comfortable place for an observant Jewish kid to live from what I can tell.

ETA I found this link from 2002 about Caltech’s kosher food (which is now defunct as far as I know):
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/aug/10/local/me-kosher10

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If your son decides that he would like to attend Princeton you could appeal his financial aid package. Princeton does not “match” other university grants but have been known to reconsider Princeton’s financial aid. Princeton’s grants are often the most generous grants offered to a student. If you want to appeal I would show the Princeton financial aid official his letter from MIT. An appeal might or might not increase his grant. Since in 2014 Princeton’s per student endowment ($2,621,000) was about 2.5 times MITs per student endowment ($1,099,000). Princeton might be able to increase your financial aid package.

Princeton has had an active Jewish life for over 100 years. The Student Hebrew Association (SHA) hosted Albert Einstein in 1948. The SHA became an official member of the Hillel Foundation in 1947. In 1971 the first university sponsored kosher kitchen in the Ivy League opened. The Center for Jewish Life opened in their current faculty in 1993. The Center for Jewish Life houses an Orthodox Jewish synagogue. The university has developed jewelry and belts that incorporated keys to accommodate Sabbath-observant practices. In 2015 the university installed an eruv, or a virtual boundary to enable observant Jews to carry essential items outdoors without breaking the Sabbath. Ambassador Daniel Kurtzer has conducted educational trips to Israel. Marina Rustow the Khedouri A. Zilkha Professor of Jewish Civilization in the Near East won a MacArthur Fellowship for her use of the ancient Cairo Geniza texts to shed new light on Jewish life and on the medieval Middle East. She specializes in Jewish studies of the medieval Middle East. Rustow has analyzed Cairo Geniza, a collection of more than 300,000 folio pages of legal documents, letters and literary materials once preserved in an Egyptian synagogue. Kosher and halal meals available in all residential college dining halls.
http://hillel.princeton.edu/kosher-dining/

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@PtonAlumnus - thank you! You are right that P is super generous with need-based aid. However, my husband works (not faculty so no reciprocity) at MIT which makes it very discounted (not free) to attend MIT. :slight_smile: The difference between P and M is something that we told DS we can manage, so we’re trying not to let that be a huge factor (though it is a distraction, yes!).

I know about the wonderful Hillel, but thank you for more info on all the background and Jewish life! I notice that P also seems to be really committed to supporting diversity including religious diversity, in an open and helpful way.

Do you happen to know what the population is at a typical Friday night (sabbath) dinner at the CJL?

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From the CJL web site:
Shabbat is the highpoint of Jewish life at Princeton. Every Friday night, the CJL holds an amazing Shabbat dinner with nearly 200 students in attendance. Before dinner, there are weekly prayer services (Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox), in addition to other prayer groups that meet every month (such as our partnership minyan, Namer, and a musical indie minyan, Zamru). On Shabbat day, students of all backgrounds spend time at the CJL to eat together, go to services, and hang out.
http://hillel.princeton.edu/about-us/faqs

If your son can attend Princeton Preview he should fill out the prospective student form to request a host for his visit. http://hillel.princeton.edu/about-us/visiting

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Thank you - he did already register for PP but didn’t request a Hillel host particularly. Should he contact the official Princeton people to correct that?

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Princeton students volunteer to be a host to prospective students for PP. The admission office will assign a host to your son. To learn more about Jewish life at Princeton I suggest that he fill out the form found here:
http://hillel.princeton.edu/about-us/visiting The Hillel hosts are arranged through Hillel.

You can call CJL at (609) 258-3635 or call Rabbi Julie Roth at (609) 258-6248. Princeton’s small student body enables personal contact. I believe that you will be pleasantly surprised how easy it is to find a friendly contact at Princeton.

If he does not make advanced arrangements he could visit the Center for Jewish Life building located near the Frist Campus Center at 70 Washington Road. For engineering majors it is more convenient to eat your meals at CJL than at a residential college.

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Thank you!!