<p>A few weeks back I received the principal nomination from my Congresswoman, but I don’t have an LOA at the moment. One of my Senators wants me to do a phone interview the same day I have a wrestling meet (i.e. 2 days from now), and my ALO said to tell him that I want some one else to have a chance since I already have a principal, but the Senator’s guy says that I should do it anyway. I’m very confused because everyone is telling me different things.</p>
<p>Thoughts/advice?</p>
<p>I think you should do the Senators phone interview. You already told them you have a principal nomination and they insist you do it anyway so you can't feel bad. You have nothing to lose.</p>
<p>You should try and take all the nominations you can get. The reason I suggest this is because while the nomination process seems simple enough, there are a lot of things that can go wrong. ESPECIALLY if you don't have an LOA. With an LOA, you just need a nomination. It doesn't matter if you are #1 on the list or #10. Without an LOA however, it becomes a numbers game. </p>
<p>I don't have the sheet in front of me, but each Representative is allowed so many people from their district in the academy at 1 time. Let's assume for a second that the number is 5. If by change there are already 4 cadets at the academy from that district, then that rep is only allowed 1 more. I'm making up numbers because I don't know the exacts at this time. But according to counselors at the academy, my son's ALO, what I know from the academy and my own military experience, etc... there is a numbers game involved. Now, let's assume that you are the principle nomination, but another individual WITH an LOA from your district is also on your rep's list. Even the last name. I believe the LOA may trump you.</p>
<p>Even if I am a wrong to an extent, why take a chance. Be able to get in however it takes. Now, as far as the senator wanting to interview you, that shouldn't be a problem. They understand that people have other things in their lives. You don't have to tell them that it's a wrestling match, but can say that you already have a prior appointment scheduled. Ask if they can do the phone interview either earlier, later, or a different day. Anyway, that's how I would advise my son if he was still looking to get an appointment.</p>
<p>Thanks for the speedy replies everyone. My mom and I are calling the admissions office tomorrow during the day to get their take on it and get the word straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. I'll keep everyone informed and post what USAFA says once I hear it. I definitely do understand what you're saying about the principal and the kid with the LOA, Christcorp. The only thing I'm really confused about at this point is that the letter I got says that I "must be given an appointment" as long as I meet their minimum acceptance standards, and I don't know those. All part of the game I suppose.</p>
<p>When you call the academy tomorrow ask them if you are triple qualified. If you are then you should be recieving the appointment. Best wishes!</p>
<p>You should seek a nomination from all available sources. You may get only (1) or you may get (4), Congress, 2 Senators, Pres or VP. It wil make it easier for you and the Academy in the long run. Potter had a Pres (DV) first, followed by Congresswoman, and (1) Senator. She was initially slotted against the Congresswoman, but they changed in April and used the DV so another candidate could get the Admission. We were at a local Academy night when our Congresswoman broke the Admission news to the young man. He was very happy, considering he didn't know if he would be able to get in.</p>
<p>If you truly have a "principal" nomination the academy cannot select any other candidate from your MOC's slate. Even the LOA will not trump you (though the LOA is likely to get an appointment as well, but will not be charged to your MOC). Your MOC has 3 options when submitting a slate. Yours is sending a principal and then the other 9 candidates may be in rank order or simply in any order from which AFA can select any. If a slate has a principal candidate then AFA has no options. If you are triple qualified, they cannot select anyone else over you. Similarly, if you are principal on your MOC slate and also get a nom from Senator you will be charged to the MOC not the senator because AFA must appoint you and charge you to the MOC who gave the principal nomination. </p>
<p>The question unanswered is if you are triple qualified. If you are not triple qualified having more nominations will not help. You must be triple qualified in order to obtains an appointment (though being triple qualified with a nom does not guarantee an appointment). Noms are complex but in the case of a principal nom there are no options for AFA - if you meet the standards you are in the door. In most instances it is better to have multiple noms but if you are the principal that is not the case. Another question is to ensure you really are a true principal nomination. The MOC turns in the nomination with a check box that says the type of nomination (principal or competitive ...). If your MOC sends a competitive list to AFA but tells you that you are the first on the list or top choice etc. it may not translate to a principal nom so confirming the type of nomination slate your MOC sends is important. When you speak to admissions you can simply ask 1) are you triple qualified? 2) did your MOC send in competitive or principal slate 3) are you listed as a principal nominee? </p>
<p>While it is helpful to have more than one nom and it does give AFA more options, if you have a principal nom AFA cannot move noms around and they MUST (if qualified) appoint you and charge you to the MOC that gave the principal nomination (see post above of ds52262).</p>
<p>You are correct that a "Principle" can not be bumped. My mistake. But my first suggestion still stands because congressmen and senators make mistakes. According to Title 10, United States Code Armed Forces, each senator and rep is entitles to a maximum of 5 charges at the academy at any one time. In theory; if a Rep had 2 nominations put in this year; 2 more next year; 1 more the year after; they would be at their max of 5. They would not be allowed to submit any the next year. Or if they did, they probably wouldn't be considered under that nomination. Here's a link to a congressional FAQ that describes it.</p>
<p>On average, that would mean nominating 1 person per year. But, if they skipped a year, someone dropped out, etc... they can do more. Chances are that your rep is up on how many "charges" they have left to offer. I just don't think I'd want to take a chance. Too many people think that reps and senators are allowed to nominate up to 10 people each and they can all get an appointment. That isn't true. Only 5 can be in the academy at any 1 time. </p>
<p>If you can get more than 1 nomination, I'd be going for it. Many times, the senators and reps talk to each other to make sure that they aren't wasting slots. Some however don't talk to each other. especially the very big states that have a lot of reps. Personally, I think you are in fine shape and shouldn't have anything to worry about.</p>
<p>Christcorp, I have never heard of a time when a MOC could not nominate. Someone each year, without fail, will either drop-out, graduate, or take administrative leave (year or more off). Plus, the system actually is a bit ambiguous, especially when LOA's are factored in.</p>
<p>Hornet; I'm with you 100%. I'm just going by what the law says. They reps can have a max of 5 in the academy at any one time. I am positive that the chances of all 5 being filled are pretty slim. My main point is that "It doesn't Cost Anything" to go to the interview and try and get as many nominations as possible. Why take a chance. My son put in appointments with both senators, Rep, Vp, and Pres. He received the pres, but was still prepared to interview with the others. It wasn't until he actually received the APPOINTMENT and accepted it that he canceled some of the interviews. I just think it's a good idea to go for as many as you can. Whether there's a hidden rule or some other SNAFU that pops up. Why take a chance?</p>
<p>Well, I must agree, go get every nom possible. No argument there! :)</p>
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<p>It just happened this year in PA. There is/was a girl here at CC who posted about not being able to apply to her Congressman because he had zero slots available and was not taking any applications for that academy.</p>
<p>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yep he is a newly elected congressman and "inherited" this situation from the election loser.</p>
<p>Sometimes this happens because the congressman is new and inexperienced in the nomination process. My own Congressman typically always leaves an opening - for an "emergency" - so he normally only has a maximum of 4 candidates at an academy at a time.</p>
<p>You guys are correct about Principle though. The academy is required by Federal Law to appoint the principle nominee IF that candidate is qualified. A check with admissions would appear to be in order and certainly prudent.</p>
<p>Sounds more like an administrative problem of the MOC than the system not having one open. There are "back-doors" as well, LOAs being one of them.</p>
<p>An MOC is only allowed to have 5 cadets at each academy at one time. If he fills them all and no one graduates or drops out then there won't be an opening the following year - this is apparantly what happened.<br>
The only option then is to seek a nomination from a senator.</p>
<p>Even with an LOA you still need a nomination. If you don't/can't secure a MOC nom the wait can be quite long indeed.</p>
<p>My understanding is that a candidate with an LOA can then be nominated by a MOC and it will not count towards their slate.</p>
<p>In other news, the Academy said I didn't need another nomination but didn't tell me if I was getting an appointment either... I'll have to wait until the first week of April. Kind of irritating since I passed the CFA, am DoDMERB qualified, and am more than scholastically qualified. Oh well.</p>
<p>Confusion here, you have a principal, but you have to wait until April?</p>
<p>
[quote]
My understanding is that a candidate with an LOA can then be nominated by a MOC and it will not count towards their slate.
[quote]
correct but it has to be your MOC and he needs to have a vacancy available for a slate. If your congressman doesn't have a vacancy then he can't nominate anyone - you then have to go to your senators. Federal law doesn't address LOA's - just says the MOC is eligible to submit a slate of 10 candidates for each vacancy.</p>
<p>From title 10 - us code:
[quote]
Each Senator, Representative, and Delegate in Congress, including the
Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico, is entitled to nominate 10
persons for each vacancy that is available to him under this section.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Zach - I don't think you will be waiting until April - unless the AFA will hold your appointment for some reason.</p>
<p>A MOC is allowed to have more than 5 cadets from the district at an Academy. HOWEVER they can only have five cadets CHARGED TO THEIR DISTRICT. For instance, in our district the MOC submitted a competitive slate of 10 for class of 2011. SEVEN of those ten our now cadets at AFA in the class of 2011 and one is at the Prep School. One is charged to our MOC. One is charged to a Senator (candidate got a nom from both Senator & Rep), and FIVE were selected out of the national pool. Of the 7 in the class of 2011, there were 3 LOA's. As I understand it, in a competitive slate the academy must charge the most qualified candidate to the MOC and the rest go to the National Pool. Cadets are drawn from the National Pool in order of their ranking within the pool. </p>
<p>It is entirely possible for a MOC to have ZERO openings in a given year. It is usually because of a change in reps. The old rep taking any/all available slots leaving the new rep unable to send in a slate. They cannot submit a slate unless they have an open position. </p>
<p>Zachogden - Admissions notifies your MOC a few days before they mail an appointment. In this way MOC's are given the courtesy from AFA of telling you themselves, if they so choose. Some MOC's call the student themselves, others have a staffer do the call - and quite a few just let the letter get to the appointee from AFA by mail. However, AFA gives the MOC the opportunity to tell you directly. Imagine if your MOC personally called you to tell you about an upcoming appointment and you responded with something like, "oh - yeah, I know. I talked to the clerk at AFA and she let me know - but gee, thanks for the call anyway, I was real excited when I talked to the clerk but it's that was last week and now it's kinda old news." The MOC may have wanted to hear the excitement in your voice like the clerk got but it didn't quite happen that way. Now you know why admissions is not going to tell you if you got an appointment on the phone! I suspect you may not wait until April to hear... (though you may or may not hear from your MOC!).</p>