Problems with Grinnell

Colleges and Universities A-Z Grinnell College
1

<p>Most of the posters on this forum appear to love Grinnell. I wonder if any others are like my child, disenchanted.</p>

<p>My first year does not like Grinnell after finding these problems, which are followed by questions I have about them:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Limited course offerings and too few professors in some departments. In at least one, 1/3 of the professors are reputed to be extremely poor teachers. (Is this typical of small schools?)</p></li>
<li><p>Too much gossip and nastiness. Worse than high school in terms of rumors. (Perhaps this is because there are no RA type people on each floor to smooth over problems?)</p></li>
<li><p>Unbending and uniform liberal slant not only in terms of political ideas but also in terms of personal habits. (Shouldn't the intellectualism of the students allow them to accept or at least engage in discussion out of class with people who are different?)</p></li>
<li><p>Difficulty finding important information. Website poor. (Why doesn't a school with so much money hire a website design firm so people can find out what they need to know?)</p></li>
<li><p>Rumors about administration/student relations. (Unexpected changes in policy due to new personel?)</p></li>
</ol>

2

<p>Someone I left this out as part of 1.</p>

<p>Uneven teaching. Some professors are phenomenally good, but others poor. (Perhaps all schools have their share of “dead wood,” but I find it disturbing that my child reports many anecdotes about friends unhappy with the teaching in their courses.)</p>

3

<p>cynthialouise, you certainly seem to have some issues with Grinnell, as you have made clear in other forums. In answer to your points above:

  1. It is unrealistic to think that a LAC of 1600 students is going to have the same course offerings as the bigger state school that you wish your child had picked. That being said, Grinnell seems to have a very wide array of courses and the profs I have heard about or seen in action have been good or, in many cases, great. Grinnell goes out of its way to pick profs who excel at teaching;
  2. This is a complaint I have never heard from my son. I have spent a fair amount of time with Grinnell students both on campus and when they come home with son for holidays. Can’t say I have seen any evidence of nastiness;
  3. Yes, the student body leans fairly far left. No suprise there. But son says they are extremely accepting of diversity in race, beliefs, and personal habits;
  4. I have heard complaints about the website from others. I have always been able to find what I needed on the website and if I still had questions or concerns, have gotten prompt answers and action from administrators;
  5. There is some belief that the new president intends to take action against excessive alcohol and drug use among the student body, but I don’t think Grinnell’s tradition of self-governance is going to be fundamentally changed anytime soon.</p>
4

<p>I guess what I’m hoping to find out is if my child’s experience is unusual or not. Maybe my kid was just unlucky in encounters or in the dormitory or elsewhere and should try to change those things ASAP to have a better time. Or perhaps, my kid’s experience is not that unusual for a student in a small college, and we had unrealistic expectations about Grinnell. </p>

<p>For our family, paying for college is difficulty (we got very little finaid) and my child chose Grinnell instead of several other less expensive schools, so if there isn’t a good chance that the experience will be spectacular. we would prefer a less expensive alternative. I guess I am hoping that posters will share information either about whether this first semester experience is something that just has to be gotten through and that subsequent semesters are typically better than the first or whether they think Grinnell is just a bad fit for my child.</p>

5

<p>I tell students “the smaller the school, the more important the fit”. I don’t find it unlikely that small LAC’s lack true diversity - they are just too small and will tend to attract like minded individuals. On the other hand, any form of self-governance, when run by 18 year olds, is also bound to lack a certain maturity of perspective. I know many instances, at many different schools, of RA performance that was less than ideal when things went wrong.</p>

<p>Given the finances, move on to big stat U. and make yourselves happy in all respects!</p>

6

<p>CL, I am very sorry that your son is unhappy at Grinnell. I graduated from Grinnell in the mid 80’s so my experience is more than a little dated but I would just make a few observations. I headed to Grinnell from a medium sized university town so and didn’t see Grinnell until the day my parents dropped me off. It was a real financial stretch for them to send me. </p>

<p>My first month was overwhelming. Adjusting to living with 15+ other girls, overcrowding (there were 4 of us in a triple), trying to manage academics and just life in general was a lot to get used to. And Grinnell was very, very different from the environment I came from. Grinnell is a very liberal campus but I had friends who were extremely conservative as well - but they were definitely treated with respect. </p>

<p>I am not sure what specific difficulties your son has encountered but I would encourage him to seek out assistance. I don’t know if you have other children but one of the best things you can do for your college age student (IMHO) is to discuss a situation with them, come up with a few strategies, and then allow them to act upon the problem themselves. </p>

<p>Some of the issues I can’t address specifically (1/3 of the teachers extremely poor?) but it seems your son may just not have found his peer group yet. That can be hard at any school. I hope your son is able to decide what is best for him.</p>

7

<p>Hello CynthiaLouise. I have not posted on this forum yet but my DD is a Grinnell senior. I have to say that you should remember that your son is only in his second month and may experiencing the reality of adjusting to a very different world. My daughter has never reported feeling that there was an excess of gossip at Grinnell, or that 1/3rd of professors in any dept. were “bad”. Of course, she has avoided one, maybe 2 based on others reports but that’s rare. Some kids will call a demanding professor “bad”, who knows what criteria is being tossed around. However, I will say that her Freshman year (second semester for her) she had all kinds of doubts about what the heck she was doing in the middle of Iowa. She felt somewhat isolated and alone. This situation was tough for us because we are all hoping for perfection for our $$$. It turns out many of her friends at schools all over the country were having the exact same issues. We encouraged her to try new activities and clubs. She really had to work at getting happy. Now, we will probably have to drag her kicking and screaming away from Grinnell at graduation. I know this is hard but you might want to give your son the advice I gave my daughter–You are responsible for your happiness. Volunteer for many new activities and see where it leads. Trust me, I have met many great young adults at Grinnell and I consider most of them to be a lot more “mainstream” than counterculture. Your son’s group is out there and Grinnell is a wonderful school (with just a tiny bit of “deadwood” which will also exist at your state school magnified by size, ha ha) Yes, sometimes the fit is wrong but it is really too early to call.</p>

8

<p>I don’t necessarily think it is too early to know whether the fit is bad; I’ve known students to be certain a school was a fit and find themselves on campus and miserable. A change of schools in these cases solved all problems - if the OP knows her son and realizes this is not simply a matter of adjustment, and early change may be the right thing to do. Particularly because he would be going back to a state U. In some cases state schools will allow students to reclaim scholarship $ they passed up for the private school - provided they attend second semester of their freshman year.</p>

9

<p>so far, my S’s experience at Grinnell has been great. When I asked if he felt he had made the right choice, he said “DEFINITELY.” Says his classes are “wonderful.” I’m sure he’ll end up with some eh teachers / classes at some point, but I can’t imagine that wouldn’t be the case anywhere. I can see how making the transition to a small, rural school is not always easy, though, but my son feels at home at Grinnell! He is such a nice, accepting person and I haven’t gotten any sense from him that there is nastiness at the school. People do speak their mind, though! Just read the Rants column in the S and B, and the other articles there (and the B and S alternative paper – it’s just great!).</p>

10

<p>Thanks to all who posted. I am happy to hear a variety of perspectives because I am struggling with whether my child is just experiencing some first semester difficulties and perhaps an unlucky/unsuitable dormitory placement or whether the school is just a bad fit. </p>

<p>Does anyone know whether Grinnell students have access to some sort of teacher rating system other than ratemyprofessors and whatever they hear from other students? Something more objective, I hope. Of all my concerns, the most troubling to me, because it won’t disappear at the end of first year, is my child’s report about so many other students complaining about professors. Oddly, this is one area of my child’s life that IS going spectacularly; child finds the academic part of school engaging and only somewhat challenging, so he has time to be active in multiple activities. That being said, as a consumer, I do worry about the hearsay about certain departments.</p>

11

<p>Other than the sources you mention (which will never be “scientific”) I don’t know of any source for that kind of info. Frankly, I wouldn’t take what he says “other kids are saying” too seriously if he likes his profs and classes. My DD has taken classes in many departments (incl science and she is not a science major) and has found the profs to be very good to excellent. IMHO, Grinnell students do love to spout off but take it with a grain of salt.</p>

12

<p>I don’t know if this is any more “objective” than ratemyprofessor.com, but U.S. News recently rated Grinnell as tied for second in the nation in quality of teaching at liberal arts colleges: [Best</a> Colleges - Education - US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/libarts-ut-rank]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/libarts-ut-rank) Grinnell profs also have a very high average on ratemyprofessor, which, though subjective, is based on student input. </p>

<p>So someone must be saying some good things about the Grinnell profs.</p>

13

<p>This really strikes home for me. I spent my first semester at Grinnell miserable and contemplating transferring. I had a boyfriend back home on the East Coast, I found the cold weather unbearable, and I felt out of place and lonely. I had great roommates and good classes, but I just didn’t feel happy for quite awhile. Things looked up second semester, as I started finding my groove, and by second year I was absolutely thrilled with college. During my last three years, any sources of anxiety was entirely of my own making-- relationship drama and post-graduation freak-outs, student government politics or desperate all-nighters. </p>

<p>Someone I know once mentioned that he is always unhappiest in his first year in a new place. I am 28 years old now, and I find that this is absolutely true for me, too. Perhaps it’s the case for your son, as well.</p>

<p>Another good thing to know is that Grinnellians are legendary complainers. I mean this in the most loving way possible. Listening to idle chatter (especially at stressful times in the semester), you would think the whole place is going down the tubes. It’s not. Any school is bound to have some unevenness in administration, and that’s going to be particularly felt at a small school. But I have worked at a university, attended an Ivy grad school, and gone to medical school, and I can promise that Grinnell’s administration is the most responsive and empathetic I ever encountered. I think Dr. Kington is an exciting choice for a president, too. </p>

<p>So, Grinnellians are incredibly good at voicing their discontent, but they’re also fabulously supportive alumni. Not always in the financial sense; many feel that the College endowment is enormous enough. But we will practically assault fellow alumni on the streets of Chicago and Washington. I’ve left “hello” notes under the wipers of cars with Grinnell stickers in the window, I’ve stopped strangers wearing Grinnell gear at the mall. It’s a great community to be a part of.</p>

<p>I would tell your son to give it another semester. He might line up his transfer materials, in case Grinnell really isn’t right for him. There is no shame in transferring, but the nice thing about transfer applications is that they aren’t due until spring. I know, because I was madly filling them out in February of 2001. :)</p>

14

<p>The website IS impossible, though. I hate that they never feature meaningful photographs of Grinnell, when student photographers for the Scarlet and Black are taking beautiful pictures every week.</p>

<p>Oh, and on professors, word of mouth is probably the best bet for figuring out the legendarily good and legendarily bad. There aren’t many of the latter, and even those have their staunch defenders among students.</p>

<p>It’s often really helpful to set up a meeting with a professor around the time of registration, just to talk about a class he or she is teaching in the spring. I did this quite a few times, especially when I was trying to wiggle past 100-levels and had to go make a case for myself. Those short meetings gave me a good feel for whether or not I’d get along with a professor and put me in great standing at the start of the semester-- the prof already recognized me and knew I was genuinely interested in the course.</p>

15

<p>Grinnell has its share of gossip and such, there’s just no way around it. An there is no doubt that it is a fishbowl environment at times. But one of the best things about Grinnell, one that I did not appreciate nearly enough, was that the school is not exactly a magnet for QueenBees or even Wannabees. From what I remember if a Grinnellian wanted to stab you in the back they usuaully wound up sneezing so you turn around, dropping the knife, and running off into the night screaming, “I don’t know. I don’t know.”</p>

<p>As for quality of professors. That is such a personal thing. And unfortunately it has a lot to do with grades. But one person’s great professor can be another person’s jerk. Word of mouth from people you trust is probably best.</p>

16

<p>GrinGrad</p>

<p>Check out the website. They just put up a photo gallery.</p>

<p>I agree with others. Tis is too early to tell much. Unless your student is miserable, I’d say give it a little more time but have transfer apps ready.</p>

<p>My senior son’s profs have mostly been excellent (history major), the language instruction excellent and the students I’ve met are warm and friendly.</p>

<p>The whole campus is adjusting to a new administration. That is normal with a new presidentcoming on board.</p>

17

<p>I can’t speak to the quality of faculty at Grinnell (which is my HS junior son’s first choice), but I have some perspective as a university professor for 24 years, who is regularly evaluated, reviews other faculty members’ course evaluations in connection with annual merit reviews, periodically observes colleagues in the classroom, and has been involved in selection committee for outstanding faculty awards in which a variety of measures (not just student evaluations) are used.</p>

<p>Students are not the best judges of what constitutes effective teaching. As one respondent already noted, grades have something to do with how happy a student is with a teacher; harder graders tend to be more harshly judged by some (especially students who have sailed along with straight As and suddenly find themselves with some lower grades). Another common occurrence is for students to say a professor is disorganized when they don’t understand the material; at least, that’s what I conclude when I see such complaints about faculty whom I know to be hyper-organized.</p>

<p>On the other hand, students tend to like professors who are funny, etc.–which is of course delightful, but not necessarily an indicator of excellence in teaching. Many have the idea that classes should be entertainment, which is wrong-headed, in my opinion. They may also like a faculty member for capricious reasons: cool British accent, the professor’s clothing, etc. (hard to believe, I know).</p>

<p>Then there is the matter of expectations concerning the discipline in question. If a student takes a class in field that he or she thinks doesn’t have any rigor and then encounters rigor, there will tend to be dissatisfaction. I’ve actually had students who are unhappy on that account tell me that my class was supposed to be their “fun” class. I tell them that my field is an academic discipline that has to mastered like any other (which is why we have PhDs in the subject).</p>

<p>I would tend not to think these perceptions as that big of an issue at Grinnell or a comparable LAC, relative to large state universities, which draw a more uneven caliber of student. That would help explain why, in one class, a professor might get the highest possible rankings from one group of students with attendant positive written comments and dismal marks from another cohort, who say exactly the opposite. It’s the same class, with the same teacher, so the variable is the student.</p>

<p>That said, any institution of any size will have some standout teachers and some not so great ones and a lot in the middle. But LACs do place a great deal of emphasis on quality teaching and quality student-faculty interaction, which is a big part of the reason why I want my son to go to that kind of school and not the kind where I teach, which pays lip service to quality of teaching without very serious follow-through.</p>

<p>That’s my two cents. Hope it helps a little.</p>

18

<p>I’m sure you are right about student evaluations being inaccurate with the difficulty and “fun factor” of classes often being judged by students as more indicative of quality of teaching than the material retained years later. It makes me wonder if the other posters who generally praised the professors at Grinnell know more about the humanities than about the other areas which are of greater interest to my child. Perhaps those areas require learning basic knowledge which is not presented in as appealing a style as other areas can. </p>

<p>Still, with such small classes even in the sciences, I expected my child (who loves the classes he is currently taking) to hear about many dynamic teachers of other sections of those courses rather than to go on about how lucky he is to have ended up with the professors he has rather than the ones other students he knows has and how anxious he is about future courses.</p>

19

<p>I think Grinnell students in the sciences have such consistently excellent profs that their standards are almost impossibly high. S is a science student and, since nearly all of his profs seems to walk on water, when he gets the rare science prof that doesn’t, we hear about it. That said, the science classes are almost uniforming challenging, involve a lot of work, and there are no easy As, so I’m sure there are a lot of kids who find it tough going, and like to grouse about it. Tell your science-minded son, if he’s really worried about a particular prof, he should sit in on a class or two by that prof and audition him or her for the coming semester or year - then decide for himself.</p>

20

<p>I recall some business adage that customers with a bad experience will complain to five people, while those with a good one don’t talk about it (or something like that). the point being, that it’s more likely that complaints will be brought up than the positives in any situation…</p>