Profoundly Gifted

Prep School Admissions Prep School Cafe
21

<p>This is my first post… I have an eighth grade daughter considering BS next year. I’m happy to find out that gifted students are doing well and perhaps happier and more satisfied at academically challenging BS. </p>

<p>I would like to share my trip to Baltimore last Sunday (yes, we were worried about Sandy but it turned out alright). My family were there to attend a CTY SET (Study of Exceptional Talent) ceremony for my DD13. The keynote speaker at the ceremony was a current Johns Hopkins professor and SET alumna. She also went to Exeter, followed by Princeton and Vanderbilt (for MD). She mentioned that she was very happy at Exeter and that she still has great friendship with one of her teachers. </p>

<p>While we still have to go through application/admission process, but we are keenly looking forward to how exciting it would be for my DD to learn from the teachers she can respect intellectually, to interact with other bright and motivated students, and just to be herself in an environment where she won’t have to hide or pretend to be “normal.”</p>

22

<p>well arnt you cool</p>

<p>Sent from my SGH-T769 using CC</p>

23

<p>Just wanted to thank you for sending the PM to me. CC has not enabled my account to PM yet since I guess I haven’t done enough actual college posts yet (ha ha- a few more years for that)! But I did want to tell you that I really appreciated your good advice and that I will be doing exactly as you mentioned for sure. Cheers!</p>

24

<p>Gofor… one more post and your PM privileges should become available.</p>

25

<p>Hello,</p>

<p>Can anyone offer their experience or advise of dealing with their children at a younger age?</p>

<p>I have two children, my D is 14 and was tested by her PS district as highly gifted in middle school. She is currently reapplying for boarding school (victim of FA waitlists last year ;). Her school experience was uneventful and she seemed to do average as a bright child. She continues to do well.</p>

<p>My S is 8. His school did a preliminary testing last spring which put him into a broad spectrum of gifted. The school at the time said they would be doing a more involved test (such as my daughter had) over the summer. The phone call never came. I suspect the school switching to a charter plus our states budget cuts contribute…</p>

<p>Now that he is in 3rd grade, he has just about had it. He was very excited last year since we told him he would be placed in a class with other children at his level. This kind of happened… There are 3 other advanced children in his class. The rest of the class is either learning disabled or slower learners. I guess they took all the kids who werent in the middle and put them together???</p>

<p>My S has become the student every teacher dreads. He reads a book during her lectures. Gets up and walks around the class room. Refuses to do any class work. We make him do his HW every night and check it. He breezes through it but I found out during his conference he never turns it in.</p>

<p>His teacher tried to set up a meeting with the school psychologist. He was refused because he tests within 99% of any standardized tests. </p>

<p>His teacher says he reads his books (he is reading and comprehending at early HS level) all through class then has his hand up for all the Q and A portion and is always correct and insightful. He aces all his tests.</p>

<p>One thing that has me worried is he has always been a few grades ahead in math. He has stopped progressing in math the last month or so (that I notice). He is stuck at 4 digit multiplication. When the teacher pressed him (without instruction, she assumed he would know what to do) he had a bit of a mental break down. I suspect this is the first time something has not been instinctive for him. He was subtracting 3 digit numbers in his head at 4 years old. He also taught himself to read billboards (multiple syllable words) at about the same age.</p>

<p>Someone emailed me the name of a private day school in our area that only accepts gifted children of IQs of 148 and higher. I am in the process of setting up a Westlers (sp?) test. $800 ouch! The school does not provide applications unless you have a test from the psychologist meeting their requirements.</p>

<p>After going through the boarding school admissions last year, I am assuming gaining entry into this very elite school is not a given. I am seeking to help my son develop both socially and intellectually with what ever resources are available to us. He is such a curious learner with so many ideas, I cant stand the thought of a well meaning public school affecting his outlook on learning and life.</p>

<p>I am already reading through some o the articles and websites mentioned above. Personal insights and experience is what I am asking about specifically. </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

26

<p>I’m actually surprised to learn that your PS did not administer psychologist evaluation and IQ test (Wechsler… or WISC-IV) for free, despite obvious signs of giftedness. That said, the laws governing gifted education vary from state to state, so you might want to check out your state laws and better understand your rights. Hoagies’ Gifted website can be a useful resource for your research:</p>

<p>[ul][How</a> to Find Legal Information in Special Education](<a href=“http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/eric/e651.html"]How”>How to Find Legal Information in Special Education)[/ul]

[ul][Gifted</a> Education Mandates, by state or province](<a href=“http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/mandates.htm"]Gifted”>Gifted Education Mandates | Hoagies' Gifted)[/ul]</p>

<p>In general, PS systems are good at special education (for physically or mentally disabled) but bad at gifted education. Boarding schools, especially those that have been actively discussed here, do much better job, and I bet gifted students are over-represented in those schools. So I’m think you’re in a right place. But I would also suggest to look into gifted consultation organizations such as CTY and Davidson:</p>

<p>[CTY</a> Study of Exceptional Talent](<a href=“http://cty.jhu.edu/set/"]CTY”>http://cty.jhu.edu/set/)
[Davidson</a> Institute Young Scholars Program](<a href="http://www.davidsongifted.org/youngscholars/‘]Davidson"&gt;http://www.davidsongifted.org/youngscholars/’)</p>

<p>Davidson provides excellent consultation for various gifted needs as well as free gifted education if you live in Reno, NV or willing to relocate.</p>

<p>Hope things work out for your children.</p>

27

<p>@Sharing, unfortunately, it’s not unusual for PS or school districts to drag their feet about paying for IQ testing, at least in my neck of the woods, and I’d imagine elsewhere. NCLB has seen to that – there’s simply not a lot to gain by serving the gifted (I could go on, but I’ll leave it for now).</p>

<p>@Hailu, like the school you are considering for your son, Davidson also requires WISC-IV or one of a couple of other IQ tests, in addition to some other validation such as achievement testing or a portfolio of student work. </p>

<p>The CC boards are probably not the best place to gain information to address your son’s needs, since they primarily deal with somewhat older kids. However, even if you are not yet involved with the Davidson Institute, their website has a wonderful bulletin board that is free and open to the public. It can be found here:</p>

<p>[Gifted</a> Issues Discussion Forum - Forums powered by UBB.threads™](<a href=“http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/]Gifted”>http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/)</p>

<p>You can lurk or you can join and pose specific questions. From your description of your son and his school behavior, I guarantee you will find discussions that address exactly the academic and emotional issues you have outlined. </p>

<p>I also recommend SENG, an organization dedicated to supporting the emotional needs of the gifted (thus the acronym):</p>

<p>[SENG[/url</a>]
[url=&lt;a href=“http://www.sengifted.org/resources/seng-newsletter-archive]SENG”&gt;http://www.sengifted.org/resources/seng-newsletter-archive]SENG</a> Newsletter Archive SENG](<a href=“http://www.sengifted.org/]SENG[/url”>http://www.sengifted.org/)</p>

<p>Though their website is a bit sprawling, it does contain some helpful information. Davidson also is committed to addressing the social and emotional development of profoundly gifted children.</p>

<p>Best of luck to you.</p>

28

<p>Thank You for all the info. I have stumbled across some of these. The Psychologist giving my son the test this week also sent me lots of resources local to our area. He mentioned that he would also be helping us connect with other schools and make some school suggestions that he will have once he has met and tested my son. Im glad I found him, he seems very committed to the education of the gifted.</p>

<p>On another note, my son came home with a flyer from his school inviting us to an open meeting for parents of gifted children to discuss the schools program, happening tomorrow…</p>

<p>Thank again for the head start on info!</p>

29

<p>Glad to hear it, Hailu, and good luck with the testing, schools, and sometimes daunting task of keeping it all rolling!</p>

30

<p>This thread has a pretentious feel to it.</p>

31

<p>Saminator, assuming you’re not just a ■■■■■, may I ask why? </p>

<p>Arguably, the entire CC forum might be said to have a pretentious feel to it. But those who participate in it don’t really see it that way or use it that way. Most folks honestly are looking to give and receive information, seek or offer suggestions to solve problems, etc., including those who’ve posted in this thread.</p>

32

<p>I can see why someone who maybe has not dealt with this might assume families with this dynamic are being pretentious. </p>

<p>I did not personally choose to have my daughter tested. In fact, she being labeled as gifted or recognized as possibly gifted never even occurred to me. Although, in other children I am sure it is undeniable at a very young age, especially when parents have more experience with other childrens development.</p>

<p>These two children are the only two I have raised so many of their milestones seemed cute and bright. But as I have seen with both of my children their differences come with difficulties as well. I have struggled for years with social issues and some extreme sensitivities with my daughter. I was unaware that these were symptomatic of anything to do with her intelligence. As I mentioned before, she always did just fine in school and no one brought it to my attention until she was entering middle school. </p>

<p>I am realizing there is a definite stigma to having a gifted child. Its more politically correct for me to ignore the situation than to acknowledge it and seek support. </p>

<p>It is what it is and if seeking advise or discussing it feels pretentious to you, all I can offer is, Know that no one is bragging or trying to make anyone elses parenting/child feel inferior. </p>

<p>And if you do have a gifted child and have not encountered the challenges that often come with it, than count yourself as fortunate</p>

33

<p>I think it’s the terminology used to describe high IQ kids that people find pretentious. “Gifted” implies that others are not gifted and thus less fortunate. But you are right that having a high IQ can bring undesirable problems into the picture, and perhaps it would be just as accurate to label these kids “aberrantly intelligent”. I bet if you replaced “profoundly (or exceptionally or highly) gifted” with “aberrantly intelligent” throughout this whole thread, no one would find it pretentious. Not criticizing any of you on this thread - but I do think people would find it much less elitist if we got rid of the term gifted. We need a term with a more neutral value.</p>

34

<p>This may be true but no one on this forum coined those terms. These are the universal terms used. And there are ranges as well. To my memory, there is gifted, highly gifted and profoundly gifted. </p>

<p>I guess we could say they have learning differences but that is so broad. I feel if we were speaking of other learning differences such as ADD or ADHD or even Autism, no one would ever consider judging the parents discussion or support on this or any other board.</p>

<p>As I said before, this is not a commentary on superior parenting or conception for that matter because no parent can control this anymore than having a child with any other learning difference. It has nothing to do with finding more value in one child over another- ever. </p>

<p>Anyway, back to dealing with my son. I have had an eye opening few days to say the least.</p>

35

<p>HailuMu, like I said, I was not criticizing anyone on this thread. I know you did not make up the terminology; I was just offering an explanation of why people find talk of “gifted” kids pretentious. My own kid is a high IQ kid, so I understand the problems you are discussing, and also know from first hand experience that when I say “gifted”, people experience it as boasting. Totally understandable. So now when they ask why she’s applying to private schools, I do exactly what you say: tell them it has to do with her learning needs. That is, in fact, accurate, and no one thinks it’s pretentious.</p>

36

<p>It would feel pretentious to those who try to make a value judgment on being gifted. If one is “given” with a certain trait, there’s nothing to boast since he didn’t earn it, but it was merely given to him as a gift (by God or through the collaboration of his parents and Mother Nature). It’s not that different from telling a boy who is 7 feet tall, “Wow, you’re really tall!”</p>

37

<p>OK, people can use whatever terminology they feel most comfortable with, and I cannot claim to know what “most people” think, but from personal experience I can say that it’s not uncommon for people to think that using “gifted” to describe high IQ kids sounds pretentious and elitist. Personally, I think it’s part of the reason it can be so hard to get support for “gifted and talented” programs.</p>

<p>I think describing high IQ kids as “gifted” is VERY different from calling a really tall person “really tall”. Don’t you think it would make short people feel like shortness is inferior, if we described tall people as gifted? Well, short people are gifted with shortness, tall people are gifted with tallness. Everyone is gifted with whatever traits they have, and I have to say I find it repugnant that the term “gifted” is used to distinguish high IQ kids from others. Even though my own kids both fit the “gifted” category.</p>

<p>Sorry - you can all get on with your conversation. You don’t have to agree. I just thought it was an important point to make, and since I’ve made it, I’ll stop now. Thank you.</p>

38

<p>I dont know about anyone else but, in normal conversations with family and friends or anyone else, my kids IQs or however you want to term it never comes up. I dont refer to them as gifted. Why would I? In all their years, if someone else mentions they think my kids are smart I smile, make a comment of acknowledgement of their remark and the conversation moves on to whatever else.</p>

<p>Ive never had the need to re term it, but maybe in the future I will see that need. I have to say, I felt comfortable bringing it up in an already started thread on the subject mostly because its anonymous. No one here knows me or my kids, I see no risk of them being put in an uncomfortable situation or treated differently. </p>

<p>I appreciate the less than positive comments because this is a safe environment to experience it and now I can use that experience in the “real world” if the subject should ever come up in a more direct way.</p>

<p>Thank you everyone for the advise and comments, always appreciated :)</p>

39

<p>I’ve got to agree with you, honoraryamom. We don’t call low-IQ children “gifted”, do we? (Oops, they’re “special,” which fools no one – even snarky preschoolers know what “special” means.) It would be far more intellectually honest to call high-IQ children smart or high-IQ, and low-IQ children low-IQ. </p>

<p>Making up cutesy labels so that you won’t offend anyone IS offensive. It’s so much more refreshing to use adult language.</p>

40

<p>Special is as special does.</p>

<p>I will chime in here to say I’m not a huge fan of the gifted label either. I’ve done a lot of advocacy on various fronts, and have been known to refer to my d as having “special academic needs.” Because the truth is, kids who are a couple of standard deviations on either side of the norm are, in fact, “special needs” kids. Does this give folks the impression that she is on the low side? Hmmm… sadly, it’s possible. Even probable. Because folks find it easy to use the “gifted” label as both a sign of ability and a sign of elitism (even if the parents were not the first ones to label their child), but many find it hard to believe—or choose to dismiss—that highly and profoundly gifted kids are really, truly, differently wired, both intellectually and emotionally, from “average” or (one of my favorites) “normal” kids—which is not to say that “average” kids are not individuals with unique personalities. </p>

<p>As labels go, I’ve always liked “highly able” or “intellectually able,” even though these tags may be less, um, “informative” to a general audience. Some might consider them too PC. I agree with BSB that it would be more honest to call high-IQ children smart, or as they say in Britain, clever, but somehow it’s bad to call smart kids smart because, well, then it would be too easy to call low-IQ kids “stupid.” And that’s a) not “nice” and b) not really any more accurate label than “smart.” AND since IQ is an imperfect measurement (as anyone who’s ever read the write-up of a WISC test can attest) that does not take into account emotional abilities and needs, other neurological factors, environmental factors, etc. it just doesn’t work. The reality is that none of these labels really works. “Special” kids on the low end of the scale have a huge spectrum of differentiated services at their disposal. “Gifted” kids generally do not. Often, that’s why families on BOTH ends of the “special needs” spectrum are willing to pauper themselves on behalf of their children’s education and training.</p>

<p>Within our family and circle of friends, where, to quote Garrison Keillor, “all the children are above average,” we don’t use labels. But within school systems, ironically, sometimes your kid can’t get what he or she needs in school until you “accept” the “G word”—because, for the foreseeable future, at least, it’s how schools and school districts label kids (and one reason we were on-again-off-again homeschoolers). For the many families of “gifted” children who live in states without any gifted education mandate, that label can be more distressing than elitist, because it means that now they have a label, and NO academic support (you know, because “gifted kids will be okay no matter what”).</p>

<p>What we’ve always told our d is that <em>everyone</em> needs to work hard in life (okay, as grownups we know that’s not always the case. But for the VAST majority, it is). We tell her that the “gift” that this particular label implies is that, when YOU work hard (we’re talking about schoolwork or special interests, here), you OFTEN make more progress in your work than someone without the “gift” of a high IQ. That said, IQ is only ONE piece of what makes you human, and it certainly is not the most important thing or the one thing that allows you to connect with all the interesting people out there in the world. Intellect and raw talent can only take you so far.</p>

<p>Now, does that still sound elitist? I sure hope not. It’s been a really hard road till now. BS has been an absolute godsend for our kid and our family. </p>

<p>End of rant.</p>