<p>My gifted son just started college. I have been involved in local GT affairs and done a lot of research over the years. Now I would like to share tales, get and impart "wisdom" with other parents. I'm especially interested in<br>
kids who go to college at an early age, my son is still 16 for awhile.</p>
<p>MIT has a good post about early college entrants. </p>
<p>Join clubs that mentor the newbies for tradition and continuality of club.</p>
<p>An HG member of my family went to UCLA at 15. Flunked out; problem was not academic but social. She had a hard time dealing with the fact that everyone was so much older -- or rather, that she was so much younger. Felt she didn't really belong, began missing discussion sections, then classes, then stopped working pretty much altogether. I suspect the situation could have been avoided with some counseling or mentoring -- she certainly was up to it academically. In the end it all ended well - she's applying to elite grad schools after a successful undergraduate career elsewhere - but it did cause a bit of stress & heartache at the time...</p>
<p>re MIT- son's first choice, rejected, husband and I did a lot of debating (privately of course) the pros and cons last year; such as the higher percentage of younger students, distance, maturity of son, we could alternately see son doing well or not.<br>
Son has the advantage of knowing kids from his HS at UW-Madison and he has older friends through running CC. (My father is in town there; son has offered to help him out if he needs it, I was thinking his grandpa could help him!) He's not the youngest one in his honors physics class- there's a 14 year old girl taking the class through Wisconsin's Youth Options (HS kids can take college courses not offered at their local school without paying fees; any travel and living expenses if needed are the family's responsibility). He joined the Wis. track club (which includes young and old) and has related working with others on honors calculus problems so I don't worry about social isolation- two weeks into the semester his two parents and two grandparents invaded his dorm (probably my only chance to see his room this year), someone we passed en route to his floor called out a greeting to him so I know my introvert was getting to know people. Thus far it seems to be a good fit; academics, running, social climate, closeness to home and familiarity. We also know of people who went to UW undergrad, then MIT- we'll see what happens.</p>
<p>One of my college roommates went to Simon's Rock which seems like a good compromise for the younger highly gifted kid. I graduated from high school at 15, but took a year off before attending college. (I lived with a French family and learned to speak French fluently - it had been my weakest subject in high school.) I'm really glad I had that year to grow up a bit, though I think I would have done fine in college even if I had gone straight through.</p>
<p>We occassionally talked about whether my older son should have graduated early - the only credit he was missing was senior English. But he seemed happy to stay at the high school. I figure if they are graduating early they need to take the process 100% in their own hands to prove they are ready.</p>
<p>I know quite a few people who had good experiences being very young in college. I discovered recently that my dh's roommate was 15 when he'd started Harvard. I'd had no idea - though it probably explains why he didn't really date much the first two years he was there. (I just attibuted it to math major nerdiness at the time.)</p>
<p>I think you could consider the "other" MIT--Caltech. The enroll about 215 kids a year. Being 16 or 17 is so common that my S never felt different. The housing system is terrific, somewhat like Harry Potter. There are 7 Houses. The freshmen visit each one for a day and then rank their first choice, and then are matched. Most stay in their House all 4 years. Faculty ratio is 3:1. Starting in first term, kids can begin research. S spent Sundays at a professors house with a club in one of his interests. With such a small student body, no one gets cut from ECs.
I'm sounding like a cheerleader. I'm trying to suggest there is an alternaitve to MIT. The honor system and spirit of cooperation dominate caltech UG program.</p>
<p>Julian Stanley was an early proponent of what is termed "radical acceleration", advancing a kid several years ahead of age mates. In more recent years, he backed off, as his long term longitudinal studies pointed out some real disadvantages to radical acceleration. </p>
<p>Essentially, he tracked and studied a cohort for many years, and found significantly higher levels of dissatisfaction in some of his earlier accelerants. I don't recall the details, but a quick literature search should clue you in. </p>
<p>On the other hand, almost all research shows that moderate acceleration (edspeak for grade skipping) is highly beneficial for the right kids. Contrary to conventional wisdom, they have better peer relations, are better adjusted socially and do better academically. Keep in mind these are averages. Some that skip ahead do terrible, of course, but so do some that stay behind. </p>
<p>At any rate, Stanley in recent years before his death became a strong advocate for a more flexible approach to learning, where kids that are ready to move ahead can do so without complete disruption from their peer environment. After all, a 15 year old that can do college level work is still 15 socially. Hence the availablilty of distance learning through CTY, EPGY, local colleges etc.</p>
<p>I apologize for reading carelessly. Your S already a feshman, and seems to be adjusting well. Having read his outstanding stats, and person qualities, I was making a suggestion as tho he were applying this year.
Your S will no doubt shine whereever.</p>
<p>Middle son had more than enough units to graduate at the middle of his sophomore year making him just 15 by 1 month. In elementary and middle school it was discussed with teachers, school psychologist,principal whether to promote him a few grades, he was big for his age physically (defensive/offensive lineman), was #4 kiddo so acted older socially and tried to keep up with older bro and was torturing his teachers. So that would have made him even younger than 15 for graduation.</p>
<p>Seemed like the thing to do, however, HE was very much against it. No rhyme or reason, just wanted to be like the other students. So we all went with it. Schools all went out of their way to accomodate with academics and he had a great social life and loved his ECs. It would have probably done him little to no damage to have him graduate early, REALLY early however he had so much fun in high school. He loved every minute of it. All 4 years. Granted he did spend time teaching himself his independent study assignments but he ending up using much of his time helping and tutoring others. </p>
<p>I saw a boy who everything came easy to learn to become a man and leader with compassion and strength to realize that not all are as blessed/cursed! as he and it is what he does with his gifts that makes the difference. He now knows and believes "to whom much is given, much is expected." He did not own that belief before but through 4 years of high school he does now understand and acts upon that concept.</p>
<p>His val speech centered on it is not who you are but how many people's lives you touch and influence that really counts. And since he had spent most of his high school career with all his fellow students as peers rather than passing them by, they welcomed and embraced what he had to say.</p>
<p>For the first time in many, many years (50+) his high school was not at the bottom of the list for scholarships #17 of #17 in the district. It was #1 and more than triple the amount #2 had. It was not all son, but he did contribute greatly to that number! His being a scholar athlete also said something to the other athletes and to his coaches and teachers. Its not often a wrestler is accepted to MIT or CalTech! Or Super Geek Goes to the Academies! His school is very diverse and has a large number of free/reduced lunch, and the tone has changed from the first Open House I attended to the one we had last week. Very, very different but in such a good way.</p>
<p>Gifted and talented isn't about one's ability but what that student can do with it and that is what I wanted my son to learn more than Def EQ, and APs, or foreign languages. He needed to learn discipline, thoughtfulness, compassion, strength of character, grace and poise and humility. 4 years of high school in sports that can scare away some math/science geeks taught him much of that. </p>
<p>Kat</p>
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I saw a boy who everything came easy to learn to become a man and leader with compassion and strength to realize that not all are as blessed/cursed! as he and it is what he does with his gifts that makes the difference. He now knows and believes "to whom much is given, much is expected." He did not own that belief before but through 4 years of high school he does now understand and acts upon that concept.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How wonderful! What a great kid you raised, Kat.</p>
<p>Kat, I loved your post! This is not directed at the OP, but so many times CC has threads about how gifted our kids are, and how they have to be really accelerated academically in order to reach their potential. </p>
<p>This idea of giftedness makes me a little uncomfortable sometimes. Most of us here have "gifted" kids -- that's why we're so focused on college stuff! But I like Kat's discussion about the personal and emotional development, too. Focusing exclusively on a kid's academic successes leaves out all the interpersonal stuff that makes for an interesting human being. Thanks, Kat!</p>
<p>For some time the Robinson Center at the University of Washington has recruited and prepared approximately thirty 7th & 8th grade students for entrance into the UW honors college each year. They go through a one (academic) year transition program culminating in the students taking a college course in the final quarter of the transition program. The program has been quite successful. They also have a "later" program, whereby students enter the honors college directly after 10th grade.</p>
<p>My S had friends who entered through both programs and all are enjoying or have enjoyed their experience.</p>
<p>Wis, I am not sure what questions you are asking, if any. </p>
<p>I can share my experience with you. I have a daughter who graduated high school early, after her junior year. She was just 16 also because she ALSO entered K early. There were reasons and issues why she entered K early and same with again graduated high school early. The latter was totally her choice and she was the one who begged us to let her do it. She is now a sophomore in college and will be turning 18 soon. She started college still 16. </p>
<p>Each case is very different. I would not go along with graduating early and going to college necessarily if the reasons were ONLY academic acceleration. For my D, she certainly did meet the academic/intellectual acceleration standard to justify graduating early. However, she also was ahead/ready emotionally and socially and in her case, in another area, artistically. In fact, she wrote a statement to all of her colleges addressing all of those areas and her reasons for accelerating and graduating early and going to college at the time. Her guidance counselor also spoke to it in his report. </p>
<p>Socially speaking, she always was friends with an older peer group and held her own in that group. She actually was a leader in groups where she was by far the youngest. She often was placed in academic classes and performing arts activities with older kids. She spent every summer at a theater camp where her closest pals and roomies were all older than herself and she saw herself as moving onto college when they did. Nobody considered her then or now as younger. They may have found out and know it but don't see her that way or treat her differently. She continues to be a leader in college and holds her own with much older peers not only in her "grade" but she is in some groups/activities with kids who are 21 and 22. So, I KNEW going into this, that the social issue for HER was a nonissue.</p>
<p>She had artistic reasons as well....won't get into those here much as they don't apply to other situations, but suffice it to say that she felt she had reached the goals she'd have wanted to accomplish prior to college in her field and was ready for the next level of her training. There wasn't a lot new to achieve that she could do prior to college that she hadn't already accomplished. There wasn't enough left to reach for. She had just attained them younger. </p>
<p>There is the emotional readiness and I think she had the independence to live on her own and this has rung true. There are some things about her that don't seem as responsible to me as her older sister but some of these things are more traits that she has that may be there no matter her age (can't find things, loses things, etc......I've always wanted to study how a gifted person who is so adept at highly organized things, who cant seem to keep track of the everyday things). Anyway, we were pretty convinced of her readiness and no matter what, this kid was/is DRIVEN and so she is very persistant and so not letting her graduate early would have been very difficult. I understood her reasons and supported them. She knew what she wanted and was capable of doing. </p>
<p>There really haven't been any problems at college. She manages on her own just fine (not counting losing things, balancing the checkbook, etc.). She has a very full life at college and is very engaged in not only school but many additional activities that have her going all night and every day seven days per week (her schedule is mind boggling, the things she juggles). She has done work for pay at a job in the city outside her school, as well. She also was not home all summer between fresh and soph year and held a professional job requiring her to live on her own in a house, with car, in a state/place where she knew nobody. She also manages to make her way in Manhattan (she attends NYU), of all places, considering she grew up on a dirt road in a rural town with a population of 1700.</p>
<p>Is this for everyone? Nope. It has worked for her and she is enjoying every minute of it. My kid is NOT an introvert and has never had social issues. While she is younger than her peers, they don't treat her as younger. Sometimes it is a little joke though. For instance, when she was selected at the start of freshman year at age 16 into a coed a capella group, kids did not realize her real age at first and when they later found out, the kids in the group (many are 20-22) dubbed her "fetus". However, she is the Asst. Director of the group! She is also musically directing a show at her school which she helped to cast. Everyone she cast and whom she is now teaching/directing are all older than herself. However, this is not a new experience for her because when she was 15, she also was directing all the upperclassmen at her HS. Just yesterday, I learned that her classmates are paying her for her piano services for class. Anyway, for her, this has worked out great. </p>
<p>I don't know what advice, if any, you are looking for. Each case is quite individual.</p>
<p>(I must add, however, I think she is looking forward to finally turning 18 in a week since her age is definitely "odd" amongst her college peers, even though they make nothing of it. She'd just like to be an older "number" already! People forget her true age but it comes to attention sometimes, like it surely will when celebrating her birthday and everyone remembers she is ONY turning 18 and even her classmates in her grade are turning 20 already. I am mailing her my homemade cake and of course her yearly numerical candles on it, saying "18" so I'm sure friends will notice).</p>
<p>Kat .............
I loved your post as well:) Very well said.</p>
<p>sjmom2329 ...........
liked your post too !!! :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, this is a correct characterization of the development of Stanley's views from his fifties to his eighties. I corresponded with him about a year before he died. A speech of Stanley's to the American Psychological Association </p>
<p><a href="http://cty.jhu.edu/set/jcs-apa.html%5B/url%5D">http://cty.jhu.edu/set/jcs-apa.html</a> </p>
<p>records his research on gifted children and his conclusions about their proper education.</p>
<p>A really helpful resource for families of gifted children is the Davidson Institute for Talent Development, </p>
<p><a href="http://www.ditd.org%5B/url%5D">http://www.ditd.org</a> </p>
<p>with its online resource site, GT-Cybersource, </p>
<p><a href="http://www.gt-cybersource.org/ReadArticleNew.aspx?NavID=2_0%5B/url%5D">http://www.gt-cybersource.org/ReadArticleNew.aspx?NavID=2_0</a> </p>
<p>and specialized programs such as the Young Scholars program </p>
<p><a href="http://www.ditdservices.org/Articles.aspx?ArticleID=147&NavID=0_0%5B/url%5D">http://www.ditdservices.org/Articles.aspx?ArticleID=147&NavID=0_0</a> </p>
<p>and Davidson Fellows program. </p>
<p>My purpose in starting this thread was to generate stories such as these. I'm hoping this thread will get a life of its own and evolve to meet other parent's needs. Hearing the varied stories is interesting and helpful. Asynchronous development defines giftedness- age/intellectual misfits etc. - there is a lot of information out there for the school age child but not much for college. A forum such as this helps parents connect with others in similar situations which they can't do locally, especially since giftedness encompasses so much diversity and by definition is limited to small numbers, especially outside large population areas. It can be a lonely experience and hard to find people to discuss with; most people can't relate to the issues or think you're bragging... I'm lucky in that our school district was evolving its GT program when my son was young and so benefited from older parents views, unfortunately they disappeared as their children graduated and as the program matured the parent committee has evaporated. There were no older parents on that committee with grade accelerated kids to get advice from.</p>
<p>My son went early entry to kindergarten (he has a fall birthday and is tall), a step down from his academic preschool/daycare but a good socialization move. We were lucky in that our neighborhood had lots of bright boys he could play with (one year 4 boys within 12 months of age were in the same class). He was in multiple grade classrooms in elementary school so when he was doing 4th grade work in 3rd grade it was easy for him to advance to 5th grade with his best friend of that time. In fact, his classmates found out (we were being low-key about it, I had told his friend's mother, but instructed son not to tell - the boy next to him looked at his report card and spread the news) and at the last day parent-volunteer class event two girls excitedly told me the "news". Over the years he has fit in with older children- best friend in middle school was a gifted boy a grade ahead- met through a destination imagination experience (a roller coaster event in all ways, I was coach). In high school he was lucky enough to be involved in cross country and did well (we never thought he'd be an athlete), he acquired friends in all grades- over 50 boys and 50 girls in CC with family parties after meets, most runners academic achievers and a good environment to practice social skills. Still, he lacked intellectual peers and maybe in a few years he'll tell me his side, I do know he was bored by even AP classes at times. He dawdled at getting his driver's license since he knew he couldn't get a parking permit at school, we live close to the HS and his friends had cars so the lack of driving didn't hurt his lifestyle. It would have been so much easier to have had a bright instead of gifted child, but then he wouldn't have fit with his parents. Both father and paternal grandfather were 2 grades ahead (in India, therefore a different set of experiences). I'm hoping he meets lifelong friends in college like I did. Knowing my son and the situations at the times decisions were made I think we did the best for him. I don't think my son would have fit in any better if he had been the same age as his classmates. I have reviewed (with 20-20 hindsight) the alternate scenarios and conclude he would have given up as much as he would have gained. Time will tell.<br>
Yes, this posting reveals insecurities. It is nice to be able to unload to strangers who can understand- son would "kill" me if he knew as he's an introvert like some 75% of highly gifted; I'm moderately gifted and definitely extroverted like the 75% of the rest of the population (another whole story for parent-child relationships).</p>
<p>Thanks, soozievt, for your post. Son, like many boys, doesn't communicate with his parents much. He did generate a spontaneous e-mail when he needed a parental signature for the local track club, it will be good when he is of legal age. It is an adjustment to switch from the HS mode of parental signatures required to college non-rights-to-know even for underage students. His honors physics class has a local 14 year old girl taking the course through Wisconsin's Youth Options program (students can take college courses at no cost to them, families pay only for transportation and housing if needed) so he's not the youngest (no, I don't think they'll date -both too young). Now it's everyone else's turn to share experiences...</p>
<p>My experience of parenting a highly gifted child was to be cautious. I always remember the story of a friend of mine's profoundly gifted son...who left for boarding school at age 12, graduated high school at 16 and went straight to Harvard, where he eventually (after about 18 months) dropped out due to severe depression and suicide attempts. He ended up in a local mental hospital for a good long time. Now in his 30's, he never graduated from even State U, much less Harvard, and works in a bookstore. His mother is happy he is alive, but thinks often of the promise that he had.</p>
<p>This experience isn't true for every highly gifted kid, and I sure hope it isn't true for the OP's son. But I have been cognizant of it since my son was a precocious baby. We did double compact his math, but other than that, haven't accellerated any of his classwork. But then again, this kid is also gifted musically, which is the great equalizer among people. He hasn't looked for academic challenges but constantly strives for musical ones. I imagine things might have been different had he not found this path which satisfies him so completely: socially, intellectually, creatively and emotionally. For some gifted kids, academics is that path, so I certainly understand people for whom early college admittance makes sense.</p>
<p>Wis75...I can totally appreciate what you are talking about. It really is not something I have ever discussed much with local people either. Like your son, my child entered K early....long story about that, won't tell it now. Like your son, she was also in multi age classrooms throughout grades 1-6, always with grades above hers in the classroom, except sixth grade (was some talk of skipping her then to middle school, 7/8, but we didn't as she was ahead a year already in grade placement due to the early K entrance.....looking back, it may have been easier if we had skipped back then cause she opted to graduate after 11th anyway!~). We do NOT have gifted/talented programs or policies in our schools or in our state. For the moment, I am not going to get into all the ways we had to advocate and get accomodations for both of our daughters (I have an another one who just turned 20 and is junior in college, also lots of acceleration but she did not graduate early). My kids have done independent studies, acceleration, taken high school courses while in the middle school, long distance learning of college level courses, and what not. All these things were not offered but were due to advocating. I think we have helped some kids in our community who came after our kids, who have similar needs (people thank us!). </p>
<p>There are many people on CC with kids who are like this. Not nearly that many where I live. There are definitely some "challenges" in bringing up and educating a child at this range of the spectrum. My story earlier mostly just focused on going to college early and also how the rationale was not due to intellectual deveopment and academics alone. As well, it was all our child's idea though I must admit, she took a path that really fits her. She did take the lead with this. Other things when younger, such as entering K early (which we went through so much over, can tell ya some time, but involved moving), we had to advocate for as she was so young. Now, she advocates for herself. I recall a comment in her guidance counselor's report for her applications to college where he reflects on a meeting that was called for this child in seventh grade (he was her GC from 7-11), that was attended by him, us, our D, her entire team of 7th grade teachers, the middle school principal, the sending principal from the elem school, her 5/6 teacher from elem school, and the State Dept.'s gifted specialist. He wrote some comment in the application report how he recalls the child being the "smartest one" at the meeting. She knew what she needed and advocated to make it happen (even with naysayers who would say "we've never done this before at the school"). It must have made an impression because five years later, he was commenting about it on the college application, lol. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>PS...Allmusic...my D that I am talking about here is also in the performing arts!</p>
<p>By the way, my sister in law who is about 12 years younger than me, who I watched grow up (she was nine at our wedding) is very gifted. She did grades 7-12 in four years and graduated as val right when she turned 16. I didn't think she was "ahead" socially however. But she went to a top college (was accepted at just about every top school in the land) and went on to get her PHD. She never remarked about going early as a problem.</p>