Programs that don't allow freshmen to perform

Question for the experts…D and I have been having the conversation about programs that restrict freshmen from performing. What are the general thoughts and feelings out there on this topic?

Honestly, I don’t think this is that big a deal. From my d’s friends experiences at programs all over the country, it can be pretty tough for a Freshman to get cast in a mainstage show at most audtion-based BFA programs, anyway. So, cutting a program from your list because Freshman can’t audition for shows may turn out to be a non sequitur because your odds of being cast as a Freshman can be pretty low. In many BFA programs, students may only get roles in an average of one mainstage show per year. For schools that do a musical in September or early October, the shows may be cast in April so Freshmen aren’t going to be in it. Heck, at some programs with large class sizes, some students hardly get a whiff of mainstage shows during their entire time at the school.

For programs that don’t allow Freshmen to audition, there are normally other avenues to perform such as showcases, student-directed shows, cabarets, voice class recitals, a Capella groups,choral ensembles, improv clubs, etc.

Focusing on training is a good thing, and being in shows does add some additional strain to what can be a stressful first year away from home. At my d’s school, Western Michigan, Freshmen do get cast but for some of her classmates, it was very stressful having to get all their homework done for Gen Eds and Music Theory while going to rehearsals every night. Also, all or almost all BFA programs require two or more semesters of crew, and getting that out of the way in the Freshman year without the added complexity of holding down a role in a show can help reduce that burden in future semesters. Also, for those that really want to be in a show, there are usually plenty of community theatre opportunities and even some semi-professional or professional theatres in town where they might be able to find a role (if this is allowed by the program).

Totally agree with @EmsDad’s assessment. S’s school casts fall shows in preceding spring. Freshmen have plenty of opportunities to be in student-produced shows - almost from the minute they walk on campus. Some of the freshmen are cast in winter/spring shows, but not all by any means. Guys who can dance have a better shot at the spring musical. Those who are in shows can find it very difficult to keep up with everything. All students are required to crew one semester and freshman year is the perfect time to do it.

In an unusual turn of events, my S got cast as “replacement” swing for fall musical his freshman fall. Looking back, he wishes he hadn’t gone out for the part. The stress of long dance rehearsals, learning to be “a college student” and trying to keep up with school work made him feel like he was missing out on all the good things one usually associates with going off to college. As current junior in a BFA MT program, he would like the time back to “just be a student”. He’s never had that experience and things only get exponentially more jam-packed as he advances through the years.

I think @Emsdad has summarized it very well. Just to give one personal account…

At my D’s BFA program, NYU/Tisch, freshmen cannot be in shows. I observe many college applicants who think this would be really horrible, but they haven’t yet lived the BFA experience. I understand that outlook since many of them (my D included) have been performing their whole lives and have always been in a show at any given time. However, now that my D has been to college, she would say this was a non-issue!

For one thing, at her program, freshmen were required to do two crew jobs (for 2 shows) and so that takes up some time and could not ever dovetail with being in a show really. Further, there are other performing opportunities. The students perform a lot in class. My D was also in an acapella group which performed and competed a lot. Freshman year, my D also played piano in a student run production. My D also had a part time job on some weekends where she performed at kids’ parties in various roles such as Disney princesses. Then, there is the fact that freshman year is just about 8 months out of the year, and not a full year. Thus, my D was in two musicals the summer prior to freshman year and summer stock the summer after it. So, within a one year period, she still was in 3 musicals. As already was pointed out, freshman year is chockfull in a BFA and I can see why it makes sense not to add 6 days/week of rehearsal to it.

All that said, the proof was in the pudding, so to speak, when my D was a lead in the MainStage musical in junior year and I recall upon visiting her, she remarked that she then realized the wisdom of the school’s policy to not be cast in productions freshman year, because she said she did not think she would have been ready to take on such a role without the BFA training first. And that is really a big reason for the policy, so that the students have some of the BFA training under their belts that they can apply to their stage work.

In the end, this was all a non-issue. It is hard for high school students to fully realize this and assume they will not like if they are not in shows freshman year. Hopefully they can read posts like this and talk to current BFA students to see that this really is not a factor in selecting an otherwise great MT program.

PS, if students used this is a factor in selecting a BFA program, they would knock out some very well regarded programs. For instance, at CMU, you can’t be in shows the first two years, and yet most everyone thinks it would be great to go there.

I had a daughter who this mattered a lot. She did not want a program that wouldn’t allow her to perform as a freshman. Good thing… she was cast in a lead for a Mainstage as a freshman. LOL Now 3 years in she knows that that should not have been a deal breaker. But at 18 and naive at the time it was.

At Point Park, freshmen are only allowed to audition in the spring semester for the Playhouse Jr. shows, and casting is very competitive. They’re also pretty strict on what outside work freshmen are allowed to do. That being said, as @EmsDad pointed out and as the upperclassmen at PPU have echoed to my daughter, the real learning takes place in the classroom, and the BFA schedule is so intensive I agree that it makes sense to have kids get used to the rigor before adding another layer of stress to it. PPU also has freshman do their mandatory crew assignments in their first year, so you’re crewing shows in both first and second semesters. That, plus the class schedule, is grueling enough.

Honestly, I think our views are shaped by where our kids ended up.

My daughter was onstage within 3 weeks of coming to campus her freshman year. (And several times after that her first year.)

I don’t think she (nor I) could imagine her not being able to perform that first (or second) year. She’s learned and grown SO much - both because of the BFA program and by being in shows.

But if she would’ve ended up in a program that specifically prohibits underclassmen from performing - I bet we’d be fine with that. Because I’m positive that THAT school’s reasons are sound and the program is sculpted around that basis. (Just like my D’s program is molded from including the kids being able to be onstage from almost day one.)

There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

;))

My S’s school, CCPA, has freshman showcases in both terms of freshman year. However, I agree with the people who say that the training is the important part, not the school shows.

@KaMaMom…I see nothing wrong with allowing freshmen to perform. I was just saying that the schools that don’t allow it, are not truly a drawback once you are there and I don’t think this should be a significant deciding factor in choosing a college. Hard for high school kids to realize this though.

Great advice/stories as always!! I will be sharing with D. Sometimes what strangers have to say is WAAAAYY more meaningful than what mom has to say! :))

Something else to consider - when I asked d about this, she said, “college roles are great and all, but, what really concerns me now (as a Sophomore), is booking work in a professional theatre in the summer and after I graduate.”

I think there are a million ways to argue the process vs. product debate. As noted in earlier posts, perspective may change on this as you go.

@soozievt

I actually agree with you … sorry if my post didn’t make that clear.

I agree with schools that don’t let underclassmen perform until X date.

And I agree with schools that let underclassmen on stage day 2 of their first year.

Different programs are structured differently - and I don’t think one is better or worse than the other.

My S is at a school where freshmen can perform. He was not cast, but a classmate came home with him over a break who was cast. He was exhausted and said he was envious of my S not having to adjust to college and rehearsals. My S still feels like he has had tremendous growth this year. He feels, in some ways, he has been able to spend more time on growing with lack of rehearsals. That will not apply to everyone. Some of your kids can juggle many balls, so this will not apply to you. For those who children need balance, he felt not being cast provided that.

To EmsDad’s point above about booking professional work… I’m aware of 3 freshmen in my S’s class who were not cast this year, but have booked summer stock for this summer. Being cast or not your first year should not be a predictor of talent or growth.

Hartt has a slightly different process/structure. They have Freshman only doing tech assignments, no performing in fully staged productions. They are, of course, doing scene study etc. in acting class, and performing songs weekly in their vocal studio Master Class, but no formal performing. Then Sophomore year, they audition for, and are then cast in “Sophomore Projects” which are full productions (black box style) that only Sophomores are in, and that are staged for the other students and faculty, but not open to the public. They get the experience of full rehearsal/performance, but the thought is that it is an environment where they are encouraged to take risks that they might not take if they were in front of a “paying audience”. It also allows students to bond and become more of an “ensemble” before they start the competitive reality of auditioning for roles in shows. They audition for Mainstage and Black-Box shows for Junior and Senior year. Going in, both D and I were skeptical, thinking it was limiting her performance opportunities, but she is happy with the arrangement and has felt like she is growing and learning, so it is all good. Like others have said, I think each school has it’s own way and no one approach is right or wrong. It is just one of many factors to consider.

When my daughter was looking at schools, we visited one in the fall and the head of theater/director invited us to a rehearsal. It had about 8-10 actors, and he told us one was a freshman. At the end he asked if we knew who the freshman was and I could pick her out without a problem. There were a lot of little things, like the way she asked for lines and just how comfortable she was on THAT stage. She was very good (or wouldn’t have been cast), but there was just a lack of familiarity with the program. As others said above, she was doing this the fall of her freshman year and all the other theater majors were off at football games and hiking trips and just getting to know the campus. Even most of the crew were sophomores and up as the freshmen hadn’t signed up for their work duties yet.

I believe at CMU you don’t see a stage until Junior year! I agree with what has been said, college is more about training and booking work and less about shows. My D attends a school where freshmen are allowed to audition, but very rarely are any cast …

You are right, @mtmamma2020. My D has several friends at CMU, and they do not go on stage until junior year.

When we visited CMU, the student that gave us the tour talked about why they don’t audition the first two years. He talked about the fact that the actors are able to try new things, mess up, learn. When you are worried about making an impression for upcoming auditions, you don’t let go as much. Also, he said that without the immediate competition, you form a different type of bond with your fellow actors. There are also different performance opportunities, just not the main stage shows.

My S goes to LAMDA; like CMU, UK drama schools don’t perform publicly until their final (3rd) year. There are also no auditions. They do shows before 3rd year though, but these are not public and they are educational only; you are also not performing for the whole play/musical, but rather for a scene or two; one role is played by several people for maximum educational value. You are cast based on where they think your strengths and development lie. In 3rd (final) year, you do public shows (also non-auditioned).

My D went to Northwestern where the opposite held. She could audition as a Freshman. She did audition - there are zillions of opportunities there - but landed nothing at all that first year. Actually, to be honest, her audition experience all four years was not ideal–Although she was cast Soph-Senior years, there was no break-out lead, no stunning sizzling mainstage part, in all her four years.

But she loved being at Northwestern and felt she learned a ton.

Being cast in shows, while definitely fun, doesn’t necessarily mean anything to your future career and certainly not to your development as a performer. Upon graduation, very few casting people will care that you were the lead when you were a Sophomore in college. They also won’t care if you were in a series of minor roles. What they care about is your training while there and how you are now.

High school students are familiar with learning by being in shows. That is how they fell in love with performing after all. But in college the learning is much deeper, in a series of classes, in which they do scenes, character studies, techniques, etc etc.

I think that while it’s exciting to be in a show for sure, performance opportunities shouldn’t be high up in consideration as to choosing a program.