<p>Several recent threads have caused me to think that perhaps there just aren't enough math/science specialty schools that are considered the best of the best--all I hear about is MIT and Caltech. There has been a thread about the anguish of mathy students who don't get into MIT, another about "unconventionally brilliant" future Einsteins who may not get into Harvard, and many, many threads in which MIT and Caltech--but no other similar schools--are included in little lists with the Ivies and Stanford.</p>
<p>Could the good people of CC help with this by generating a rough list of five, or maybe ten, schools that are arguably peers, or at least competitors, of MIT and Caltech for the kinds of students who would benefit from that kind of experience? We already do this, to some extent, with LACs.</p>
<p>What do you think? (Perhaps this already exists--if so, we should use it more.)</p>
<p>Would you include non-specialty schools that are good in math, science, and engineering (like a lot of state flagships and Stanford), or only specialty schools (although MIT would be stretching the definition, due to a significant number of strong degree programs in other fields)?</p>
<p>Among specialty schools, there is also Harvey Mudd, although highly advanced students in some subjects may want to be aware of the “LAC ceiling” issue.</p>
<p>For small specialty schools that are not super selective or super expensive, there are South Dakota Mines and New Mexico Mines.</p>
<p>My idea would be to include only specialty schools that would especially appeal to the same kinds of kids who would want to go to MIT. Those flagships that are good in science are not so different from top private Us that are good in science.</p>
<p>My idea is that MIT et al. are kind of like conservatories for math/science/tech kids. What are the best ones?</p>
<p>There’s also some less selective small private schools like Rose Hulman Institute of Technology in Terra Haute, IN and Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken, NJ. I don’t think they are competitors to CalTech or MIT.</p>
<p>When I recruited Mechanical Engineers way back when this was our top 10 (which has 11 schools but we were recruiting folks not math people!)</p>
<p>Stanford University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Cal Tech<br>
Berkeley
U Michigan
Georgia Tech
UIUC
Princeton University
Cornell
CMU
Purdue</p>
<p>This is why I groan when I read that other thread which talks about the fantastic “auto admits” whose lives were turned off of science and who ended up doing something horrifying because they did not get into MIT. Show me a single instance of someone with “the goods” qualification wise who failed to get into a single one of these schools-- well, I don’t believe it exists.</p>
<p>I cry for the kid in Georgia who gets admitted but can’t afford to attend Georgia Tech; but I have little sympathy for the Intel semi finalist or the AIME contender who has to “settle” for studying math at Princeton because he didn’t get accepted to Cal Tech.</p>
<p>I like blossom’s list, it rings true from what I know.</p>
<p>But most of those schools are not of the “conservatory” type. Others in that category include:</p>
<p>Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Olin College
Colorado School of Mines
New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
Lehigh University</p>
<p>One other addition to the list could be Waterloo University, in Ontario – sort of like Purdue, a full-service university with a very pronounced STEM orientation.</p>
<p>And some even more specialized places:</p>
<p>Embry-Riddle (aeronautical engineering)
Stevens Institute of Technology (mainly naval)</p>
<p>And of course the service academies are also an important source of engineering training.</p>
<p>I think this is probably because the next few schools in the math/science pecking order are not specialty schools. They’re universities that have very good programs in science and math. Some of them are on Blossom’s list.</p>
<p>Don’t cry for us in Georgia, blossom! If a student gets into GT, they are probably receiving at least 90% tuition because of our Hope Scholarship. There is also a financial promise for very low income students. Georgia Tech also has transfer agreement with many two year programs.
If you are a smart, hard worker in Georgia who gets in, GT costs are more reasonable than most colleges. Plus you get so much for your money, I believe it is one of the top schools in number of days classses are held:). Plus labs, recitations, extra sessions with TA’s.
There are also Co-ops/internships. Several students work at Atlanta companies like Turner while taking a full schedule. Many more have campus jobs.</p>
<p>Moreover, then I will cry for the kid somewhere else!</p>
<p>My point was that the apocalyptic “OMG my kid didn’t get into MIT so now he’s going to flip burgers for the rest of his life instead of studying the STEM subject he loves so much” that we’ve been flogging on another thread is absurd. Yes, there are kids who can’t afford Cornell who might end up staying in-state at Georgia. yes, there are kids who won’t get into Cal Tech who will end up at Michigan. But this is hardly a tragedy for society-- and hardly a commentary on why holistic admissions is “hurting” kids whose reason for being is called into question because they should have been “auto admits”.</p>
<p>I think it’s great that Georgia is supporting its students with so many options!!!</p>
<p>My whole purpose in this thread was to think of ways to help kids think about this without feeling that being rejected by MIT is a life-stifling tragedy. I think it’s always better to think of a group of similar schools rather than a single “dream” school.</p>
<p>Good posts-I agree! Many of them will probably be happier and do better at some of the “other” choices. I guess I get a little defensive when I see “cry” and “Georgia”. I am proud of many things here.</p>
<p>I would def consider Virginia Tech. Their overall rating isn’t as high as some of the others, their engineering school is rated fairly high (16), however several individual departments within engineering rated top 10 and higher.</p>
<p>But where is the dividing line between a “general university with good STEM departments” and a “STEM specialty school”? For example, on which side of the line do MIT, Cal Poly SLO, and Virginia Tech, all of which have a non-trivial selection of non-science liberal arts majors and/or non-engineering pre-professional majors like architecture or business. What about Stanford and Purdue (which have as high or higher percentage of bachelor’s degrees in STEM majors than Virginia Tech or Cal Poly SLO)?</p>
<p>Your strategy makes sense if you’re looking for a Catholic college, or a liberal arts college, or a college in a city, or several other things that I can’t think of at the moment. But if you’re looking for a good education in a tech field, though, thinking of a group of similar schools could limit you.</p>
<p>Let’s say that MIT and Caltech rejected you, but Cornell and WPI accepted you. WPI is a tech school, like MIT. Cornell is not a tech school. But Cornell’s programs in most (maybe all) tech fields are higher ranked than those at WPI.</p>
<p>Do you say no to Cornell and yes to WPI because you want a tech school? Why would you want to do that?</p>