Proposal to Split FSU-FAMU College of Engineering

[Gator88NE]

<p>Talk about inflammatory rhetoric, this isn’t a choice between splitting the COE or closing down FAMU. It’s simply a question of how to go about separating the two schools, while respecting FAMU’s (and it’s supporters) concerns.</p>

[SweetheartCroc]

<p>Do a little Googling on the issue. You will find FAMU supporters alluding to Jim Crow, Slavery, “Separate but not equal,” etc. Constructive dialogue is impossible under these conditions, which is probably why Thrasher inserted the measure without warning. </p>

[parent2noles]

<p>^Unfortunately, that has been a significant aspect of the relationship since the beginning. </p>

<p>It has been if you (FSU) do anything we (FAMU) don’t like, it is because you are racist. Try making the hard decisions with that Sword of Damocles dangling over your head. It doesn’t matter if you have the highest graduation rate for black students; it only matters if you do what we want. </p>

[Gator88NE]

<p>Get use to the racial demagoguery…not much can be done about it. It will be used to leverage greater concessions from the state. As, I’m sure the state will use FAMU’s recent performance issues as leverage in its negotiations. </p>

<p>This all goes back to the Law School. If the state legislature had created a new FSU Law School, without taking FAMU’s, the precedent would have been set to have two “programs” in the same city. Then FSU would have been able to create its own COE, without having to combine with FAMU’s COE in the 80’s. This issue could have been dealt with 34 years ago, but the sins of the past keep rearing their ugly heads. It also doesn’t help that the state legislature forced FAMU to place its new law school in Orlando, based on the premise you don’t want two similar programs in the same city……talk about the wrong precedent. </p>

<p>The COE’s will be separated, it’s just a question of time and state funding (for both FSU and FAMU).</p>

[SweetheartCroc]

<p>FAMU says that they require $100 million:
<a href=“http://www.weartv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.fl/33ebfba0-www.weartv.com.shtml#.U0b03fldU1I”>http://www.weartv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.fl/33ebfba0-www.weartv.com.shtml#.U0b03fldU1I&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>In a way, it’s a good sign that they are negotiating. They can get a billion dollars for all I care, as long as FSU finally gets its own CoE.</p>

[cemistry]

<p>I’m not going to major in engineering, but the fact that fsu shares the COE with famu is a huge turn off. I hope fsu does get its own program! :)</p>

[Gator88NE]

<p>Update! Looks like the House is in “no rush” to approve a proposed split of the joint College of Engineering.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.wtxl.com/news/house-in-no-rush-on-proposed-famu-fsu-engineering-college/article_d632f8be-cc1a-11e3-a75f-001a4bcf6878.html”>http://www.wtxl.com/news/house-in-no-rush-on-proposed-famu-fsu-engineering-college/article_d632f8be-cc1a-11e3-a75f-001a4bcf6878.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This is to be expected, the proposal has to go through the BOG, first, and then feedback from FSU and FAMU on what would be required ($$) before they add money to the budget. I would expect to see something in next year’s budget (for FSU and FAMU) to “begin” the review process. This likely will take a few years to get done, but it’s started at least.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/weatherford-bog-should-have-a-say-in-famu-fsu-engineering-split/2176840”>Florida Politics;

<p>And some more background on the proposed split:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20140420/POLITICSPOLICY/304200020/FAMU-FSU-College-Engineering-tale-two-universities”>http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20140420/POLITICSPOLICY/304200020/FAMU-FSU-College-Engineering-tale-two-universities&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[Gator88NE]

<p>FYI: If you read the last link above, FAMU did submit a proposal, it would be 100 million for a new engineering building(s) on FAMU’s campus and then 15 million a year for operating funds. Currently FAMU gets 11 million a year for the “joint” operating funds, while FSU spends about 5 million on dedicated FSU cost (faculty) or about 16 million a year combined for the FAMU-FSU COE.</p>

[SweetheartCroc]

<p>So FAMU refuses to accept the existing facility.</p>

<p>But they are OK with forcing FSU to use the same facility (under their control) that they now regard as unacceptable.</p>

[Gator88NE]

<p>

There are 23 FAMU and 27 FSU tenure-track faculty in the joint budget, and 36 tenure-track faculty in the separate FSU budget.

</p>

<p>

Even though 50 of the 86 faculty positions at COE are paid through the joint budget, the universities have separate collective bargaining agreements covering salaries, benefits, bonuses and raises.

</p>

<p>I’m sure FAMU would keep the 23 that are members of FAMU’s faculty, while FSU will keep the 63 that are members of FSU’s faculty. Both COE’s would want to hire additonal faculty.</p>

<p>FAMU is bargaining, and the $100 million in capital and $15 million a year in operating cost is the first (high) proposal. They expect to negotiate the final number to something less. I haven’t heard what FSU has propose, but I would think it’s in the same ballpark. </p>

<p>Just guessing, but at the end of the day, I would think FAMU gets 40-50 million to build a new engineering building on campus and 7 to 9 million for the operating budget. FSU will likely get the old complex (since it’s closer to FSU campus) and 40-50 million for a new engiineering building (on campus). FSU would plan on replacing the old complex at some future date. It’s operating budget would be in the $13 to $15 million dollar range. </p>

<p>Lets see how close I get!</p>

<p>Note that the operating budget is the state funding given to the college. The COE also has other sources of income, such as grants, etc. This additional funding would be much higher for FSU, as it does much more research. </p>

[SweetheartCroc]

<p>The existing CoE is about the same distance from both schools, which is presumably why it was placed there.</p>

[Gator88NE]

<p>Another update! Hopefully the last, as this is the final week for the legislature.</p>

<p><a href=“http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2014/04/senate-agrees-to-famu-fsu-engineering-study-instead-of-automatic-split.html”>http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2014/04/senate-agrees-to-famu-fsu-engineering-study-instead-of-automatic-split.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The legislature has agreed to a FAMU-FSU engineering study ($500K in funding) instead of an automatic split.</p>

<p>

As part of the compromise, the $3 million in FSU operating dollars for the engineering split has been deleted from the budget. Thrasher said the $10 million in Public Education Capital Outlay funds will no longer be earmarked for a new engineering school on FSU’s campus but may be re-directed to other projects at the university. The PECO list will be made public Monday.

</p>

[Gator88NE]

<p>Another update:</p>

<p>Looks like the option to split the two schools has been removed from the budget language for the $500K engineering study.</p>

<p><a href=“http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2014/04/budget-language-on-engineering-school-study-protects-famu.html”>http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2014/04/budget-language-on-engineering-school-study-protects-famu.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

The Board of Governors will have two options when it conducts a study on the future of the FAMU-FSU College of Engineering. It can keep the status quo, meaning the 32-year-old partnership between Florida State University and Florida A&M University will continue operating as it has. Or the board can decide to create differentiated programs at each university, meaning certain majors or degrees would be offered at FAMU and different ones would be available at FSU.</p>

<p>What is not an option: splitting the school in a way that leaves FAMU without an engineering program, something its advocates feared would happen under the Senate plan to funnel $13 million to FSU so it can begin creating its own engineering school.

</p>

<p>

The budget language allocates $500,000 to the Board of Governors to hire a non-Florida-based firm to conduct the study “with the goal of achieving world class engineering education opportunities for students in both universities.” The study must be completed by January and a decision by the board no later than March 2015.</p>

<p>The Senate proposed different language on Sunday that would have allowed a third option: establishing an independent engineering program at one or both schools. That was deleted from the House proposal that Senate budget chief Joe Negron agreed to late Monday during a meeting to finalize many aspects of the budget.

</p>

[Pasbal]

<p>I think this is a great idea, to wait and make sure that they do everything the right way, if splitting the CoE is even the best idea.</p>

<p>Keep in mind, the entire Florida State University System is really intended to further education for as many people as possible. The joint programs at some schools is both a cost saving initiative and a way to make sure that the most students are benefiting. If splitting the CoE will result in a FAMU CoE collapse and FAMU will suffer, it doesn’t make sense for the board of governors to approve a split in the first place. They have to make sure that anything they do will actually benefit all parties involved. </p>

<p>This is something that’s going to take a long time to sort out. Odds are good that a FAMU CoE won’t survive with only 500 students, but I don’t think that FAMU would be happy about having to drop engineering completely if that happens. It’s going to get ugly, it’s going to end up taking a while to figure it out, and probably most importantly, it’s going to leave a lot of people unhappy no matter what happens.</p>

[justice66]

<p>I am waiting to see how this is resolved. DS is a Sophomore in High school and has thought about studying engineering in FL. Total cost and financial aid will play a part in the decision . If FAMU continues to share resources with FSU then the school would be in the running. If not, we would really need to look how the CoE would be funded and the strategic plan for future development of the school. </p>