<p>Hello, I'd like some input on the issues of doing premed at Columbia. My son did not get accepted to Columbia yet, but as his primary interest is in medicine, some information about being premed at Columbia would be beneficial if he does get accepted and when he has to select a school. Any comments, particularly from the current premed students, or the former premed students who have gone through the Columbia curriculum would be welcome on such info as where you ended up, how well Columbia prepared you, how well your fellow premed students did, or how you felt you might have fared had you been enrolled in another school instead of Columbia, etc., your feedback will be most appreciated. thank you for any discussion.</p>
<p>^bump
pls post any info, for or against doing premed at Columbia</p>
<p>Columbia has one of the best science programs in the nation. It just completed another science buikding this fall. I went to Columbia med after graduation. All of the premed students got into multiple medical schools.</p>
<p>First, I’d like to preface that I’m not premed, but I have friends who are studying engineering as well as completing premed requirements, so I have a good deal of exposure to their lingo as well as the classes they have to take.</p>
<p>My general advice has been that if you are going to medical school, it’d probably be a better investment of money to study premed at a state school, unless you really believe that you are a top student (top 10-30%). If you’re just an average student at Columbia, you’re chances of attending a top medical school are still quite competitive, definitely better than coming out of a less prestigious university but with a helluva lot more debt.</p>
<p>My Knowledge of Premed Admission:</p>
<p>1) GPA. GPA. GPA. You gotta have at least a 3.5 to even be considered for many medical schools. If you have less than this, then many schools won’t even open your application.
2) BPCM GPA (Biology, Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics) is important as well. You’re BPCM should hopefully also be quite high.
3) MCAT score
4) Research and Clinical experience</p>
<p>Premed at Columbia:
- Do not study engineering and premed. This combination is quite difficult and the average GPA of engineering students is 0.3-0.4 lower than the average GPA of CC students. I can elaborate on this more, but the same student studying premed in CC will have a much higher chance to get into medical school than that student studying premed in SEAS.</p>
<p>2) The school is highly regarded in terms of admission. My friends have statistics of those who get in with what statistics, and many students will gain admission. However, this is usually after taking 1-2 years off after graduating.</p>
<p>3) As long as you’re in the college, there is enough academic flexibility to finish the premed requirements, pursue some electives, as well as continue with more intensive premed studies. Also, your GPA is quite high, around 3.5-3.6 for the average premed applying to medical school.</p>
<p>Could you expand on your first point, beard tax? I will be studying engineering and premed in the fall.</p>
<p>ricck1 & beard tax – thanks for your responses. my S applied to CC but has no clue whether he will gain admission or not; he applied to two EA schools (caltech and univ.chicago) and was accepted early to both. We did not think of the relative difficulties of the early schools to do premed, and he applied to hyp+columbia for RD, again without thinking of the same issue. If he does get admission to Columbia, he will consider it seriously from the premed perspective. We have a good enough info now on what being a premed in the aforementioned schools will be like except for in Columbia. Info that we have so far indicates that princeton, caltech and uchicago will be difficult (due to difficulty in getting a high grade) and harvard and yale could be doable (if he can maintain average or above of his class) due to the high average gpa of these schools (3.6 or 3.7?). If you know any info on the average (rough & approximate) in the columbia college, I’d appreciate to know it. of course it could vary rather wildly among majors, i don’t know. As you said, beard tax, the average GPA of the school is what we’d like to find out first; and then move on to other issues such as relative ease of clinical and research opportunities, etc. Thanks for the replies.</p>
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<p>@ Mandu - GPA is by far the most important factor in medical school admission. The fact is the engineering students have a much lower GPA than science majors at the college and it shows in medical school admissions. You’ll be taking much harder classes at the same time. Imagine these two schedules and imagine who will have the higher cumulative GPA and also the higher BPCM GPA</p>
<p>CC Courseload (Friends have finished Biology)
- Physics 1201 Lab
- Physics 1200 Mechanics
- Organic Chemistry
- Music Humanities
- Art Humanities</p>
<p>SEAS Courseload (Friends have already finished Organic Chemistry and Physics)
- Partial Differential Equations
- Numerical Methods
- Probability and Statistics
- Biology
- Bioethics</p>
<p>Also, to add insult to injury, engineering courses don’t count towards your BPCM GPA. Overall, it’s a terrible idea to study premed at SEAS. My friends and almost everyone I know are suffering through engineering, let alone engineering combined with premed requirements.</p>
<p>EDIT: Just wanted to add that medical school admissions don’t really value the engineering degree. People know engineering is hard, but they really don’t know how hard so a low GPA (one that is line with averages) is not acceptable. A 3.2-3.3 is average in SEAS but you can’t get into medical school. Almost 0% chance.</p>
<p>@col2cal </p>
<p>The college has some serious grade inflation depending on what major you study, just like Harvard and Yale. The core classes are usually curved to a B+/A- and these classes can’t give out lower grades than a B-.</p>
<p>It depends on what you major and department you’re in. Economics and Political Science have a B/B+ major but I’ve heard that neuroscience and biology majors have a mix of classes in between B/B+ and B+/A-, not to mention the random electives here and there that give out almost 60-80% A’s. Almost forgot, language classes rarely give out grades lower than A- as well. Overall, huge amount of grade inflation in the college (much less so in SEAS) and the average GPA of a premed applying to medical school is around a 3.6-3.7.</p>
<p>However, their BPCM GPA is 0.1 lower, probably due to the random electives and core classes which boost your GPA.</p>
<p>^beard tax, Thanks very much for the info. My son would be doing bio (they have neuroscience too) if he goes to caltech. It certainly looks much more doable at columbia. With A-(3.67)/B+(3.33)=3.5 for average for the course, it does look inflated but this is what is needed for premeds to accumulate the med school admissible gpa. Staying above average in these classes would certainly fetch A or A-, if you are a standard deviation above the average, then 100% an A. We’ve been thinking, between princeton (if accepted) and caltech, he would go to caltech. Now, columbia (if accepted), the choice will become seriously difficult because by now my son developed a bias toward matriculating at caltech in spite of the grade worries and columbia will be a strong pull. Extremely useful and helpful info. Thank you beard.</p>
<p>I knew engineering would be difficult, but I never thought it would be THAT much more difficult. Are you saying it’s impossible to get a 3.5+ in SEAS, even in a relatively easy major, say environmental engineering? I remember someone telling me that SEAS difficulty is comparable to any of the science majors in the College.</p>
<p>You must be exaggerating a little - I mean, there ARE kids from SEAS who get into top med schools, right?</p>
<p>It’s much more difficult to do premed in engineering. My friends are being crushed by the work they have, and on top of that their GPA is not that great. I doubt that science classes are comparably difficult to SEAS classes. Intro to Biology is extremely difficult but the more advanced courses are curved to B/B+ or B+/A-. Engineering has many more classes that are curved worse and have much more problem solving and mathematics. Also, you don’t take as many classes from the grade inflating core curriculum. I’m guessing someone in CC told you that sciences are just as hard, maybe so if you compared physics to environmental engineering.</p>
<p>The problem with premed in SEAS is that you really won’t finish unless you pick certain majors. The top priority in people’s mind is, “How can I finish premed requirements taking 5-6 classes a semester?” This invariably leads to Applied Mathematics, CS, and Chemical Engineering as some of the top choices for premed; none of these majors are easy.</p>
<p>There are kids in SEAS who get into top med schools, but I don’t think that many. One person in the college didn’t even have a major, concentrated (minored) in history, finished the premed requirements, and got into Columbia med school. It’s just ludicrous that this happens while people slave away at Chemical Engineering getting 3.2. (This is 0.3-0.4 above average per semester) The system is screwing over engineers. </p>
<p>I remember talking to someone from JHU BME while I was in high school and he would non-stop complain about engineering and how medical schools had no idea how difficult it was. I just thought he was dumb and whining but after seeing what my friends go through, I’d highly recommend transferring to the college as soon as possible.</p>
<p>Is this trend of engineering being too difficult to maintain high enough GPAs true at all schools? For example would studying BME at UVA, Duke, or any of the Ivies make med school admission much more difficult?</p>
<p>Several Columbia Engineers (and engineers at other schools) matriculate at top medical schools. I don’t think Beard is offering a fair perspective. </p>
<p>Yes, an engineering curriculum is tough at all strong engineering schools but medical schools realize this as do other professional schools. Columbia also offers advising that works specifically with our engineering undergraduates.</p>
<p>I think that top engineers as well as top science students will do well in their career paths. However, the current medical school admissions process favors students with high GPA’s, as do other professional schools. Generally, engineering gives out lower grades, which is partially taken into account by medical and other professional schools. However, the schools don’t cut that much slack to engineering students, especially since the first round screening involves throwing out the applications with below a 3.5. </p>
<p>1) Engineering classes are curved lower and your GPA will suffer.
2) Professional schools don’t cut that much slack to engineers. Engineering classes are one to two-thirds of a letter grade lower. However, schools have a hard time choosing a 3.2 BME over a 3.6 Biology major.
3) The material is difficult. You can coast in CC with filler classes, but an engineer loads up on tough courses.</p>
<p>Feel free to PM me or ask any questions I can addresses. Engineering and medical school are generally not a good mix at any school. You can change your major easily at other schools but you’re almost stuck doing engineering at Columbia.</p>