<p>You need to be more patient. You started your career in one of the worst job markets in recent history. Things will get better. To place the blame on Villanova is very short sighted. Villanova provides an excellent foundation to be successful in any field you choose. You have to be willing to work hard and go after what you want without giving up (despite short term setbacks). You can’t sit back expect your college degree alone to guarantee success and a high salary. At best, your college degree might get you an interview. If you’re not happy with a middle-class salary, then don’t settle for that. Map out a plan to get to where you want be. It often takes several moves to get there. </p>
<p>During the last downturn, my firm laid off many ivy-league grads. The people that kept their jobs did so because of their value to the firm, not where they got their diploma. </p>
<p>You got a solid education from an excellent school. It will serve you well over the long run.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>My student loan bills don’t wait. Interest on my bills doesn’t wait for me to be able to find economically viable employment. I bought into the hype, I did well at their school, and I worked hard at my job (as was evidenced by authoring 4 published papers and getting into a top ranked grad program), and still I find myself eeking out existence. </p>
<p>The older I get, the less I care. The people I really feel sorry for are my parents. They thought they were sending their child off in order to give them a better life than themselves ,and took on a lot of debt themselves as well, rather than saving for their own retirements (which they really should have done instead). They are simply two working class stiffs that got shafted by the game. The only thing college ever did for me was drastically reduce the quality of my life for the next two decades. </p>
<p>You would think that in the worst job market since The Great Depression VU would quit raising its tuition. If it is going to continue to raise its tuition on its students, then I want VU to justify the roughly 25% increase in total costs in as little as 5 years with full transparency. What exactly does all of this money go towards? The number of faculty has remained fairly constant. They don’t want to admit that the financial onslaught on there students is going almost all towards nothing but pure profits to the school. Admins get higher salaries and I bet a lot of it goes to the hands of VU investment portfolio manager. </p>
<p>I get how the game works–promise kids and their families an education that will supposedly improve their lives and payoff in the long run. Have those families and students take out huge amounts of loans in order to pay for this manufactured dream. The banks issuing the loans then can sell that student debt on Wall St. via student loans asset backed securities quite easily because the government guarantees that those securities will pay out even if students go into default. The banks can then go out and make more loans with the money they get from selling those securities. Meanwhile, colleges and universities like VU continue to drive up the price of their tuitions (even in a terrible recession) because of the never ending flow of government backed credit. The universities don’t care if students default, they get paid upfront and can continue to raise their prices, because after all, the working middle class is a sucker for a dream and they’ll continue to pay. The only ones screwed in the whole scam are the students and their families for buying into the hype. The universities and banks making a killing off of them while they are saddled with non-dischargable debt. </p>
<p>I can’t believe a Catholic institution like Nova participates in such blatant greed. I thought it was founded on good Christian values. There’s no excuse for raising tuitions during a god awful recession and while many of its students are drowning in debt after they bought into the hype. If VU is going to charge MIT fees, yet does not provide an education on par with MIT, then someone PLEASE EXPLAIN to me where all that money is going. I’ll never give a dime in donations until the school explains where all of the tuition money goes.</p>
<p>Your rant is becoming irrational.</p>
<p>Bad economy , poor financial decisions , worst job market in 20 years.
And all your complaints about Villanova can be applied to all its peer institutions if you spend money you don’t have.</p>
<p>You’ve expressed your view and you may persuade some to pass on applying.</p>
<p>Now , move along…</p>
<p>Yup, about as irrational as the yearly tuition hikes VU imposes during a terrible recession.</p>
<p>Quote: “VU is a massive waste of money for the return you get financially with your degree from VU.”</p>
<p>gravenewworld: I’m sorry that things haven’t worked out as you had hoped. While I certainly agree that the cost of college tuition is way too high and beyond the means of most working class families absent some loans or grants, your quote about the value of a Villanova degree is misplaced.</p>
<p>Bloomberg Businessweek ranks VU 25th overall for return on investment out of over 500 college and universities.</p>
<p>[What’s</a> Your College Degree Worth? - Businessweek](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?)</p>
<p>So, if you are going to invest in a college education, it looks like VU is a good place to spend your $$.</p>
<p>Look, no academic institution is perfect. You go and hope that the degree will help you learn and ultimately land a decent job. College is a risk. In the end life is just a game of risk. </p>
<p>Many college students are in this exact situation. Debt, bad economy, poor job prospects, and more debt. I do agree that VU is not worth the money, and trust me the tuition hikes are somewhat “irrational” considering they are making the campus more beautiful RATHER THAN improving academics (i.e. the Nova redevelopment plan through 2013). VU definitely has made some odd decisions regarding use of tuition, but we have little control. This is not Europe where students protest everyday. As it is, most Nova students are happy with their education so nothing is going to change anytime soon unfortunately. Just remember though, a piece of paper from University means nothing in the end…</p>
<p>Still, this forum should focus on pros and cons rather than one story!</p>
<p>@ Kil</p>
<p>First, pay scale relies on self reported incomes. Secondly, it depends exactly on who those 1000 people are they are using to calculate median incomes. If they are using more business and engineering majors than A and S alums, then off course their median salaries will be higher. A and S alums however make up a huge portion of alums. Thirdly, they also didn’t take into account student lloan debt, interest payment on that debt, and counted it against ROI. According to USNWR, the average student loan debt for a VU grad is quite sizable (30k+). Also,that’s just the average and not median, which I bet is even higher.</p>
<p>If we are going to look at numbers then let’s look at VU’s form 990 over the past several years from 01-08 (09 and 10 not available). [Foundation</a> Center - 990 Finder](<a href=“http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990s/990search/esearch.php]Foundation”>http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990s/990search/esearch.php). (type in villanova)</p>
<p>From 01 to the beginning of 08, VU increased its total assets value by roughly 1.5x. That’s an increase of over 10% per year. How exactly does this happen? I doubt somehow VU managed to find amazing individuals that are better than everyone else to manage their portfolios. I bet it was because an increasing amount of tuition moneywas being diverted to investing and capital construction. If you did deeper on the form 990s you can see VU increased its investment in the stock market by $100 million over those 7 years. Thats an increase of roughly 6% per year, nothing outrageous yes, but if you look VU got torched on the market by the end of 2008. I bet it was because they were taking increasing risks on the stock market by betting on derivatives and in thhings like hedge funds.</p>
<p>Now I don’t have a problem with universities trying to increase their value as long as students see the benefit. However if you look at the 990s VU helped 3700 students with tuition in 2001 but in 2008 helped 3350 students. Yes aid went from $39 million to 71 million, but after you factor in the increses in tuition, the level of aid has nearly remained the same and given to less students.</p>
<p>I for one won’t give alumni contributions so the school can gamble on the stock market, capital construction projects, and other riskier investments. I thought it was a school not an investment firm. </p>
<p>I remember listening to the presentation claiming that college grads earn $1million more over their lifetime (which the collegeboard doesn’t even use now because it has been proven false over and over again)and that an education at VU would be worth the significant debt. Who do you think we’re going to be ****ed off at when those promises never come to fruition and we’re sinking in 20 years ofloans that were used to pay the massive tuitions–are large portion of which went to gambling on the stock market,building construction ,and to increase the university’s total worth rather than towards increasing the quality of overall education and financial aid to students.</p>
<p>Im guessing this guy chose some useless major and now blames it on the university instead of his decision. Of course nobody is going to pay you to do arts and crafts all day!</p>
<p>And for the people who think there is nothing to do on the weekends think again. One of my friends always complains about this. “there are no parties ever wa wa wa”. Fine if you want that kind of fun you need to be proactive find parties at the other surrounding colleges or just have fun on campus in the dorm since most RA’s dont care what you do even if its drunk soccer in the hallways at 3 am. I probably see most of the area out of anybody there since I run about a average of 8 miles a day and it is one of the coolest areas Ive seen. Is kind of like a super rich suburbia mixed with some farms and lots of great parks if your willing to venture off campus. I also had my car on campus to get more out of the area and so I could snowboard every other day in the winter. All you need to do is be willing to walk a mile off campus to get your car parked back in the surrounding neighborhoods. So for all the kids who say the campus is boring they are dead wrong, they just are not willing to work hard enough to have some fun. Not every college is as easy as walking across campus to the frat house</p>
<p>I majored in a hard science and graduated with honors, so try again clown. The funniest part is the fact that you are inadvertenty admitting that there are indeed a lot of worthless majors at VU…in other words VU is massively overpriced for a lot of students.</p>
<p>The best part was the fact that Nova’s amazing and stupendous degree and alumni network managed to get me a grand total of 0 job interviews for an enitre year after getting laid off and after literally dozens of job applications. Ill tell you what graduating from Nova withhonors in a science degree and 6 years experience gets you–a dead end job working for $16/hr. Hardly worth the $150k investment id say.</p>
<p>@Orangehat: Yes it is true you have to make your own college experience, but there is absolutely nothing going on during weekends that is free or relatively cheap in the surrounding areas. Most universities provide events or something to do on the weekends, and VU should have something outside of a useless movie night. You do not even realize the implications of your statements…fun stuff in the “surrounding area.” College is already a ton of money, why do I have to pay anywhere from 5 to 11 dollars for a train to find something to do??? So much for the “college experience.” Most universities provide decent bus or van lines, the Nova lines have horrid hours and no offense who cares about a free bus to KOP Mall? The fact that they have a bus to KOP rather than the cultural centers in Philly says everything about the student population. </p>
<p>@Gravenwworld: Again sorry to hear about your situation. What was your major? From what you say I have this feeling it was comprehensive science, I know it can be difficult to find a job out of that major. Irrespective though, you have to realize that it is the past. Yes you are in a situation but you have to start thinking outside the box. Maybe something like Teach for America? Peacecorps? They have hundreds of similar programs, many with loan reduction. Maybe even a PhD or research fellowship??? Dude there is a ton of stuff out there, just research! I am sure you can get a full ride to a program with great grades in sciences, even in something like law school if you do well on the LSATs. That is basically all I can suggest!</p>
<p>I majored in a legitimate hard science (not biology or comprehensive science). These days, you guys in college are better off than we were in the earlier 2000s. Websites like this weren’t too popular back then and students these days are much more aware of student loan debt than we were because of more press coverage it has gotten within the past two years since students before you (like kids in my class) are starting to default at soaring rates because the promises colleges and universities peddled have never come true. </p>
<p>Wages have remained stagnant, I don’t understand how tuition for you guys continues to skyrocket above the rate of inflation almost every single year. Many of you guys not in business or engineering are going to get out here and realize that you are going to probably earn in the range of $30-40k if you’re lucky. Knowing that, would you still say a college education is worth $40,50,60k, or more in student loan debt? Those debt amounts may not seem like a lot to you now, but after factoring interest payments and all the other bills you’ll have to pay, those students loans are going to take you 20 years to pay off on a typical middle class income. </p>
<p>If we are going to sit here and say “well you should have chosen a major that would payoff” then that means that the only majors people should choose then would be something in the business school or engineering. Think of how many people major in art, film, music, philosophy, theology, english, and so on currently at VU. If we cut all of them out, then VU no longer would be a university and should just be called “Villanova”.</p>
<p>These days, all of you not in business or engineering that also do not come from elite wealthy families are going to be making around $40k out of school. If you have a lot of student loans because you bought into the hype, you are going to be crushed for a very long time. Many companies these days are moving towards the temp job scheme so that they don’t have to pay benefits, can pay lower salaries, and let you go on a whim. If the economy is terrible right now and has severe structural problems with regards to employment, how can VU, or any college for that matter, justify raising prices on students every single year? They can’t, the only reason they do it is because they don’t want to admit that they’ve created a giant bubble that’s about to burst that has many characteristics in common with the housing crisis of '08 and can’t stop inflating it. </p>
<p>I haven’t had health insurance in over a year and a half because I’ve been stuck in the permatemp scheme. There’s simply no jobs left almost anywhere. Those of you in school now that are carrying a sizable amount of loans are in for a world of hurtin’ once you get out.</p>
<p>Ok , we get it.
You have debt and have had poor post graduate success.</p>
<p>Your situation is not unique , but certainly not the norm for Villanova graduates.
All of your points of the cons can be applied to peer institutions. </p>
<p>My pros for villanova is that it is full of smart , caring , fun loving students from good families that are optimistic about their futures and will have successful careers and be good citizens.
Again , don’t go into debt for any college. Go where you can afford the price.</p>
<p>So you are saying that if you have to go into debt to go to X college you shouldn’t go? You realize there is a big portion of students at VU taking out loans right? How many students at VU currently take out loans to go to VU? 1/5, 1/4, 1/3? What would happen if 33% of VU’s entire student population just went away? </p>
<p>Student currently in college, their parents, and worst of all college admins have completely unrealistic expectations of what their degree is worth and what the economy will support with regards to wages. Here’s the reality of our economy:</p>
<p><a href=“http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/earnings%20growth%20mishel.png[/url]”>http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/earnings%20growth%20mishel.png</a></p>
<p>Wages for 90% of Americans’ wages continue to stagnate yet universities continue to push the hype of their product and drive up the cost of their schools beyond the rate of inflation. Colleges and universities have created a giant bubble that’s exploding in the face of their grads. VU is nodifferent except it costs a hell of a lot more than a lot of other schools. That’s because they’ve been transformed from institutions of higher learning to nothing more than businesses and investment firms that are bent on improving their bottom line, their overall net worth, and the appearance of their campuses. How exactly does VU lose almost 25% of its endowment in 2008? That’s because they were gambling on the stock market and probably also in realestate, all backed by the never ending supply of government backed student loan tuition money, when it blew up.</p>
<p>To beat a dead horse:( (please refer to my previous post #32)</p>
<p>Your complaint is a universal issue in higher education.There are HUNDREDS of colleges where COA is over 45k per year before aid.Villanova is number 83 on the list !</p>
<p>Good luck with your debt , you’ve made your point bitterly.</p>
<p>Now please go do something productive.</p>
<p>Cost = Tuition + Room and Board</p>
<p>College Cost '09-'10 Rank Change
- Sarah Lawrence College $56,420 1 -
- New York University $53,589 2 -
- Wesleyan University $53,406 11 +8
- Harvey Mudd College $53,331 9 +5
- Bates College $53,300 4 -1
- Johns Hopkins University $53,190 6 -
- Connecticut College $53,110 8 +1
- Claremont McKenna College $52,995 12 +4
- The George Washington University $52,980 3 -6
- Scripps College $52,686 23 +13
- Bard College $52,650 19 +8
- Vassar College $52,640 10 -2
- Bard College at Simon’s Rock $52,610 22 +9
- Haverford College $52,606 15 +1
- Georgetown University $52,526 7 -8
- Bowdoin College $52,465 16 -
- Eugene Lang College $52,440 41 +24
- Duke University $52,405 27 +9
- University of Chicago $52,341 28 +9
- Union College (NY) $52,329 35 +15
- Carnegie Mellon University $52,250 14 -7
- Oberlin College $52,244 30 +8
- Fordham University - Lincoln Center $52,159 47 +24
- Middlebury College $52,120 17 -7
- Cornell University $52,100 32 +7
- Williams College $52,096 48 +22
- Northwestern University $52,080 43 +16
- Bucknell University $52,050 33 +5
- Fordham University - Rose Hill $52,036 53 +24
- Franklin & Marshall College $52,010 21 -9
- Vanderbilt University $52,010 26 -4
- Colby College $51,990 25 -7
- Boston College $51,962 20 -13
- Tufts University $51,932 29 -5
- Washington University in St. Louis $51,918 38 +3
- Babson College $51,916 24 -12
- Carleton College $51,882 36 -1
- Mount Holyoke College $51,850 18 -20
- University of Southern California $51,842 34 -5
- Bennington College $51,830 40 -
- Barnard College $51,818 58 +17
- Dartmouth College $51,816 36 -6
- St. John’s College $51,776 51 +8
- Colgate University $51,775 13 -31
- Columbia University $51,730 54 +9
- Wellesley College $51,704 50 +4
- Smith College $51,640 31 -16
- Dickinson College $51,600 38 -10
- Reed College $51,590 45 -4
- Boston University $51,574 44 -6
- St. Lawrence University $51,520 46 -5
- Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering $51,500 49 -3
- Trinity College (CT) $51,370 56 +3
- Hamilton College $51,350 55 +1
- Skidmore College $51,336 5 -50
- Hampshire College $51,279 52 -4
- Occidental College $51,230 72 +15
- Swarthmore College $51,160 61 +3
- Stevens Institute of Technology $51,130 42 -17
- Drexel University $51,125 57 -3
- University of Rochester $51,120 67 +6
- Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute $51,065 62 -
- Hobart and William Smith College $51,050 64 +1
- Pomona College $51,023 59 -5
- Chapman University $51,010 63 -2
- Wheaton College (MA) $50,970 65 -1
- Gettysburg College $50,880 84 +17
- Bryn Mawr College $50,840 66 -2
- Amherst College $50,820 78 +9
- Lafayette College $50,769 60 -10
- Brandeis University $50,596 80 +9
- Stanford University $50,576 70 -2
- Wake Forest University $50,554 75 +2
- Brown University $50,468 81 +7
- University of Richmond $50,420 77 +2
- Providence College $50,390 NR -
- Pepperdine University $50,350 74 -3
- University of Notre Dame $50,282 69 -9
- College of the Holy Cross $50,270 71 -8
- Fairfield University $50,190 82 +2
- MIT $50,174 68 -13
- Lehigh University $50,000 76 -6
- Villanova University $49,990 72 -11
- Yale University $49,800 89 +5
- Emory University $49,798 79 -6
- Washington and Lee University $49,743 94 +8
- Ursinus College $49,700 86 -1
- Worcester Polytechnic Institute $49,680 85 -3
- American University $49,610 91 +2
- University of San Diego $49,552 83 -7
- Drew University $49,537 87 -4
- Pitzer College $49,470 92 -
- Rollins College $49,400 88 -5
- Santa Clara University $49,110 90 -4
- Macalester College $48,924 97 +2
- Kenyon College $48,920 95 -1
- Case Western Reserve $48,700 101 +4
- Northeastern University $48,670 100 +2
- Loyola University Maryland $48,600 93 -6
- Princeton University $48,580 96 -4</p>
<p>That’s funny because according to VU itself tuition+ board=52,070 </p>
<p>[Graduate</a> School Fees - Includes College of Engineering](<a href=“http://www.villanova.edu/enroll/finaid/costs.htm]Graduate”>http://www.villanova.edu/enroll/finaid/costs.htm)</p>
<p>Which would put it in the top 30 most expensive schools (assuming no other inaccuracies in your list). But I guess it’s alright, as long as everyone else is fleecing the crap out of their students while middle class wages continue to stagnante and while kids have to take out more and more loans,then I guess its ok for VU to follow suit. So much for christian values…</p>
<p>[Financial</a> Assistance Award Statistics](<a href=“http://www.villanova.edu/enroll/finaid/award_statistics.htm]Financial”>http://www.villanova.edu/enroll/finaid/award_statistics.htm)</p>
<p>Award Statistics for 2010-2011</p>
<p>For our current 2010-2011 Freshman class:</p>
<pre><code>93% of those who applied for need-based aid were eligible to receive some type of assistance.
77% of those eligible for need-based assistance received Villanova Grants for a total of $13 million. The average Villanova Grant award was $21,260.
The average assistance package for students with demonstrated financial need (combining grants, scholarships, loans and student employment) was $29,348.
</code></pre>
<p>Overall:</p>
<pre><code>65% of all matriculating undergraduates receive some type of assistance.
For 2010-2011 Villanova University committed over $61 million of its resources for grant aid to undergraduate students.
</code></pre>
<p>[CampusGrotto</a> - The Rising Cost of Education](<a href=“http://www.campusgrotto.com/the-rising-cost-of-education.html]CampusGrotto”>http://www.campusgrotto.com/the-rising-cost-of-education.html)</p>
<p>“One thing that can be realized after checking out this year’s list of most expensive colleges is that the price of higher education is getting ridiculous. This might be an obvious statement to some, but the fact that some colleges are now costing over $50,000 per year to attend is crazy.”</p>
<p>"The cost of going to college is getting so high it may lead people to start questioning the investment of a college education. Is it worth spending the $200,000 to get that 4-year degree from a top college?</p>
<p>What to do about it?
While this problem is pretty much out of the students hands, students can keep the price tag of college down by attending an in-state school"</p>
<p>See post #32</p>
<p>Bravo Brave Ulysses. The facts speak for themselves.</p>
<p>GraveNewWorld, you have an interesting posting history, to say the least. You were singing a different tune a while back about your college degree and career.</p>
<p>“Get your kid to major in mathematics now!
My background: I was a major in chemistry and mathematics that went on to work in the pharmaceutical industry as a chemist. I was subsequently laid off, but man o man am I sure happy now that I majored in mathematics. It has proven to be the very durable and quite useful. Right after being laid off, I was able to work as a substitute math teacher to make ends meet while applying for new jobs. I was able to find a 1 and half year temp job with at a bank doing financial analysis because of my strong background in mathematics. I was thinking about going to pharmacy school, even took the PCAT (aced it because of my math degree again), but reconsidered because of the fact that there are now way too many pharmacists. Thus I decided to go back to grad school to ride out this terrible economy (and also because I like research), and will now be working on my PhD in biomedical engineering. All of this would not have been possible without my degree in mathematics. I have been able to jump in and out of several, quite different, industries very easily.”</p>
<p>From the same thread:
"15 Years in aerospace? Good job Mrscollege. There’s no way in heck I could have gone from chemistry/pharmaceuticals to BME without my math degree. SOOOOOOOOOOO glad I have that piece of paper up on my wall right now. "
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/862196-get-your-kid-major-mathematics-now.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/862196-get-your-kid-major-mathematics-now.html</a></p>
<p>You also seem to be turned off to higher education in general. Have you been posting your bitter observations on the Ivy forums as well?</p>
<p>"What do people think about Harvard and Columbia now after Inside Job?
Has anyone seen this film? My god what has happened to our “academic” institutions? They appear to be as corrupt as Wall Street. "
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1098711-what-do-people-think-about-harvard-columbia-now-after-inside-job.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1098711-what-do-people-think-about-harvard-columbia-now-after-inside-job.html</a></p>
<p>I could go on and on, but suffice it to say that you obviously have an Agenda. No one puts this much time into negative posting unless there is an overriding purpose. I’m sure most people reading this forum know to take any of the opinions posted here with a grain of salt.</p>
![http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/earnings%20growth%20mishel.png[/url]](http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/earnings%20growth%20mishel.png%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
