Pros and Cons of Swarthmore College in PA?

College Search & Selection
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<p>As for the "grind school" image:</p>

<p>It is a both true and not true. There is a significant percentage of students at all top schools who study very hard. I do think that the percentage at Swarthmore is above average. The advertised "grind school" image tends to self-select students who enjoy that sort of thing. I noticed in my own college career that I studied the most when I was enjoying my classes, fully engaged in discussions, etc. My impression is that Swarthmore's students tend to fall into that category. Having said that, there is a range at Swat like anywhere else. Double-major in the Physics honors program and Econ, and you'll work your tail off! I do think that anyone considering Swarthmore definitely needs to ask themselves whether they view studying hard as a positive or a negative. If it is not seen as a positive, it's probably the wrong school.</p>

<p>Having said that, there is plenty of the same day-to-day "fun" at Swarthmore as you see at any college. Frisbee games on the lawn every afternoon before dinner. Poker tournaments or watching DVD movies in the dorm lounges. Boys playing PlayStation. Beer. Sex. Rock n' roll. </p>

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The town of Swarthmore, on appearance, has nothing but a train station stop. The towns around Haverford & Bryn Mawr seem to have more to them.

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<p>That's a little deceptive. The Village of Swarthmore proper isn't much: a bank, a pizza joint. A couple of little coffee shops, an old-timey hardware store, a food coop-grocery, etc. If you walk a half mile from Bryn Mawr or Haverford up or down Lancaster Avenue, you will find a wider assortment of little restaurants, vintage clothing shops, dry cleaners, Dunkin Donuts, etc. than the actual Village of Swarthmore has. However, if you walk a half mile from Swat's campus in the other direction, you pop out of the wooded neighborhood onto a major thoroughfare/miracle mile. A large shopping mall, dozens of restaurants, a Target, a Best Buy, Starbucks, every cellular provider, and so on and so forth. The Target store, in particular, provides one-stop shopping for a college student and is a frequent Saturday morning destination.</p>

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We were told that Swarthmore is actually not that convenient to Haverford & Bryn Mawr. Though the latter two schools are closely intertwined with each other, their relationship to Swarthmore is more remote. Not that many students from Swarthmore take classes at Haverford/ Bryn Mawr, and vice versa.

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<p>There isn't that much cross registration among Swarthmore and Bryn Mawr/Haverford. Mostly in niche departments. There's a little more cross-registration at UPenn, which is on the same train line about 15 minutes away from Swat. Cross registration is consistently overhyped at virtually every "consortium" we visited relative to the reality.</p>

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<p>Thanks for correcting the record on the location, interesteddad. I obviously didn't make it to that "other side" during our visit.</p>

<p>Thinking back to our PA trip, the discouraging view of cross-registration actually came more from the Haverford and Bryn Mawr people than from Swarthmore. I got the distinct impression that the people we spoke with felt that courses at Penn were typically easier than comparable courses at Bryn Mawr/ Haverford. But they felt courses at Swat were harder still, and plus they were graded a lot harder. Also it was not that easy to get to, comparatively. I think the BM/H people felt like they had enough problems to contend with without taking on more.</p>

<p>I'm not sure we asked as many questions about this at Swarthmore, now that I think about it. We went there first, and it may not have come up at that time.</p>

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<p>My guess is that the most frequent cross-registration occurs in the foreign language departments, where it is difficult for any tiny college to cover all the bases. So, if you want to major in Russian at Swarthmore, you would probably want to take some courses at Bryn Mawr or vice versa. Also, each of the colleges has a niche specialty department. For example, Swartmore has a Linguistics department and so on and so forth.</p>

<p>There is also some cooperation in study abroad programs. For example, Swarthmore runs its own program in France. Bryn Mawr, on the other hand, is the lead college in a joint consortium (Swat, Haverford, Penn, Bryn Mawr) for a program in Nairobi, Kenya. </p>

<p>Overall, I think these cross-registration options are useful for a limited number of students in particular departments. Even though it sounds easy (and is easy) to get back and forth, that 15 minute shuttle bus ride is just as likely to be the 15 minutes that kills your ability to take the other class you want that semester!</p>

<p>There is extensive book-loan library sharing among the various colleges (Penn, Swat, Bryn Mawr, Haverford). I believe that the Tri-College corsortium also runs some cooperative orientation programs for international and URM students. It could also be handy for critical mass on for some organizations: religious, ethnic, orchestras, etc.</p>

<p>Overall, it's good to have the additional options, but I think the notion of cross-registering is given too much weight in the college shopping process, especially given that almost all popular courses have capped enrollments.</p>

<p>Of the four Swarthmore seniors who spoke to the parents at freshmen orientation, none had taken a course at the other schools. One was registered to take a course at Penn during the upcoming semester -- more out of curiousity than anything else.</p>

<p>BTW, I only discovered the miracle mile shopping on my second visit to Swarthmore. It's literally like popping out of an 'enchanted forest' into a city. We got to know the commercial strip pretty well making after dinner runs to Target during freshman drop-off! Overall, Bryn Mawr and Haverford have a bit more "college town" feel and are definitely in the most upscale part of metro Philly. Not for nuttin', but Bryn Mawr even has its own Ferrari dealership, if kiddo gets a hankering for something a little sportier than the old hand-me-down family Honda.</p>

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<p>Your daughter's college advisor ought to go visit the school (or if s/he's been their, spend more time with the students). This opinion does a great disservice to his/her advisees.</p>

<p>I'd characterize the workload as serious, not "brutal." My son's roommate is a hard science major and has plenty of work, but hardly studies "24/7." My son tells me the workload is no worse than his upper school -- but more interesting. He's had as much down time as he'd like, as do all his friends.</p>

<p>At Swarthmore, almost all the students are "serious" about their work. And many (as I've been told) are equally serious about enjoying their weekends, performing their public service, and having a complete college experience. My several trips to the school (and incessant nosing around) have done nothing to contradict what my son's told me. Indeed, if what you say was true, I'd have been very reluctant to have him apply ED. In retrospect, his overnight was not misleading; the impression he formed on his visits are quite consistent with his freshman experience.</p>

<p>On the issue of the consortium, I agree that much more is made of it for the sake of prospective students, rather than for the enrolled student body.</p>

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<p>interesteddad, thanks for clearing up the matter of the workload's brutality...as serious as i am about school, i need a social life .. i mean, if all kids did was study.. then i think i'd have to transfer before i did something drastic lol</p>

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<p>I'm glad you insiders can set things straight. As I said, I wish your voices were raised "at the time".</p>

<p>FWIW adviser has been at it 20+ years, and discussed with us in depth his recent trips there with his own children. That doesn't mean he's right. Apparently he's not.</p>

<p>But he is not alone in perpetrating this misconception. We didn't just take his word for it. The students my daughter spoke with at Swat could not really articulate to her what they did outside of class, in a way that she understood. Just a few kids, though, hardly representative. I wish we ran into some more representative representatives.</p>

<p>Some college guide books are also apparently a bit off.</p>

<p>For example, here's some excerpts from some old Princeton Reviews lying around here:</p>

<p>"Says one student, "I came here because I wanted to study like crazy"."
"A freshman notes," most first year people feel like they've been hit by a truck"."
" According to many students the oft-quoted motto "It would have been an 'A' anywhere else is definitely true..."
" "A Swarthmore day is a 28-hour day", notes one student, reflecting on the notoriously heavy workload at this elite liberal arts school."</p>

<p>These are direct quotes.</p>

<p>They go on to say many positive things as well, and as I said my own view is quite positive. My only point is it wasn't just the adviser commenting on the workload, there were other things out there adding plausibility to his perspective. Oh yeah, including the comments from the students at Bryn Mawr and Haverford. </p>

<p>If we have him for kid#2 I'll be sure to suggest that he give Swat a more careful assessment, though. It's true, an expressed opinion does a great disservice to his advisees- if this opinion is wrong. As you've pointed out.</p>

<p>An overnight undoubtedly would have cleared things up, but unfortunately following our visit she didn't want one.</p>

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<p>I don’t know if we set things straight. What I try to do is provide an opinion based on experience.</p>

<p>Personally, I believe this whole “fit” thing is blown out of proportion. I’m convinced (and I express only my opinion) that many schools would have satisfied my son. I’ll never really know, since there will not be another experience with which to compare his current one. </p>

<p>As a parent, my job (again, only my opinion) was to confirm that the chosen school would provide something close to the expected experience. My son never had his heart set on any particular school. In fact, his hypercritical evaluations led him to conclude he wouldn’t be all that happy at any school. The joys of youth.</p>

<p>Contrary to his opinion, I concluded that many of the schools on his list would work. I further concluded Swarthmore would work better than the others. The first one and a half semesters have supported this conclusion. I can only hope the next 3+ years are as successful.</p>

<p>You and your daughter will, of course, settle on the school right for her. The right choice is broader than most believe.</p>

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<p>I don't know how much more of a "grind" school Swarthmore is than other LACs in its category--Williams, Amherst, Wesleyan. I also do not know if the grading curve is steeper at Swarthmore than at like schools, and that may be a pertinant issue for those thinking about professsional schools where grades can be an issue. </p>

<p>The other negative I have heard about Swarthmore is that it is not as balanced as it s peers due to the removal of its football program and the resulting disappearance of certain "jock" type of kids. The situation is equally applauded as it is critisized, and it depends on how your feel about this sort of thing. Williams and Amherst are more "balanced" and more "male" in feeling whereas Swarthmore is more like Wesleyan in that manner but Wesleyan still has more students who </p>

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<p>Those quotes are all reasonably accurate, in the context of college kids talking about academics at Swarthmore.</p>

<p>I would not recommend going to Swarthmore unless you want to invest a lot of time and effort in your courses. It would be a waste of money and, given the small class sizes, too difficult to hide. We had explicit conversations in our household about this topic before the application deadline, because I honestly think it's perfectly alright to chose a college where you don't have to work quite as hard. </p>

<p>My daughter's overnight visit before applying was specifically put together to sit in a couple of classes, talk to students, and make sure that she was comfortable with the level of the classroom discussion and with the workload. I have not heard her complain so far. Her comment on the workload is "It's OK, I get it done. I have to do a lot of reading, but it's pretty interesting." She said that she was tired after final exam week at the end of the first semester, but has otherwise has expressed no stress over the workload so far.</p>

<p>She pulled no "all-nighters" first semester (except for a couple nights she stayed up til dawn playing poker) and managed to get into Philly for dinner four or five times and take a weekend trip to NYC with 15 of her closest Swarthmore friends.</p>

<p>The biggest adjustment freshmen have is dealing with the fact that they are not likely to get their usual "all easy A's" at Swarthmore. This was another topic of conversation in our house because, coming from a fairly average public high school, my daughter was not going to be as well prepared as many of the kids at Swarthmore. There is no question that she is having to raise her game. That's OK. A college should make you raise your game. </p>

<p>The pass/fail first semester is a GREAT policy because it lets these super-achiever kids see their first B's or C's on tests/papers without feeling a great deal of stress. The days of just regurgitating the stuff in the book to get an A are over. Fortunately, daughter ended up the semester with comfortable breathing room above the pass/fail line in all of her courses. I think she was proudest of scratching and clawing her way up into the B range in the power series Calculus class. The Physics seminar on Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity was a walk in the park compared to that Calc class.</p>

<p>She did take advantage of the three-day workshop on study skills and strategies taught by Swarthmore seniors to freshmen before the start of second semester and said that she got some valuable tips and tricks. For example, she's started going to library to read for a few hours after dinner to avoid the distractions in the dorm. She's also made use of the Writing Associates program, in which upper class students review papers and offer suggestions before they are turned in. One of the seniors who spoke to the parents at orientation said that she hadn't started using that program until sophmore year and, from that point on, used it for every paper.</p>

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<p>Actually, Swarthmore dropped the football program because it was consuming one half of the available athletic admissions slots and suffocating the other sports, while still not being able to win a game. It is the disproportionate size of a 75 man team at a school with only 750 male students that was the problem. A football team at a school that size is like an elephant walking around in terms of consuming athletic admissions slots.</p>

<p>Virtually all Swarthmore sports teams now get some recruited athlete slots. Before football was dropped, only 12 of the teams even got one slot.</p>

<p>Currently, 21% of the male students Swarthmore are on a varsity sports team. This figure is typically in the 25% range for the other top LACs such as Davidson, Carleton, Pomona that have a football team.</p>

<p>21% of Swarthmore women are on a varsity sports team. This is higher than all but a few top LACs. Wesleyan, Davidson, Carelton, and Pomona are all in the 14% to 17% range. </p>

<p>The only schools that really have a higher percentage of varsity athletes are the schools that try to support both football and ice hockey. And, of course, the jock schools that make varsity athletics and winning Division III national championships a major institutional priority.</p>

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<p>The new Science Building at Swarthmore is breathtaking. I really like the mix of traditional campus with the deep lawn view and the wonderful trees, and austere architecture with a modern flair. It suits the student body. You can't beat the intimacy with faculty at Swarthmore and the students do work hard but my impression is that it is a place for a group of rugged individuals who are not competing with each other, but who love to learn. Giftedness in students often means that the more highly "gifted," the less "alike" the students are. This is true in many settings, but somehow there is a particularly happy atmosphere for students of various unique gifts there. Swarthmore students seem to fit this understanding of an aspect of giftedness...and to be comfortable with being different from each other. Personally, the train jump to Philly or NYC would also be an asset for the few times one would be stir crazy on a small campus in a close-in to the city burb.</p>

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<p>
[quote=jamimom]
The other negative I have heard about Swarthmore is that it is not as balanced as it s peers due to the removal of its football program and the resulting disappearance of certain "jock" type of kids. The situation is equally applauded as it is critisized, and it depends on how your feel about this sort of thing. Williams and Amherst are more "balanced" and more "male" in feeling whereas Swarthmore is more like Wesleyan in that manner but Wesleyan still has more students who </p>

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<p>hm .. when you say jock-leaning culture, are you referring to a lack of brainless football players? because that's cool.. i guess.. but as an athlete, it would be nice to be around people that i have something in common with aside from academics.</p>

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<p>I have a friend who is a varsity soccer player at Swat. He is happy there, but did say the athletes are considered to be a different breed.</p>

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<p>oh really?.. how so</p>

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<p>
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when you say jock-leaning culture, are you referring to a lack of brainless football players?

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<p>There are football players who break 20 on the Wonderlic. A good percentage of them are punters and kickers (!).</p>

<p>The truth about any school's "team spirit" is reflected in the number of students that actually turn out to support the teams. Alas, I don't think Swarthmore would rank at the top of anyone's team spirit poll. Notwitstanding, some of the teams are quite good (as far as a 1,500 student Div. 3 school goes).</p>

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<p>Redbull:</p>

<p>There is a strong correlation between certain mens sports teams and drinking crowd at Swarthmore. For example, virtually all of membership of the two fraternities are "jocks". There is an ambivalence about the frat house party scene. It's not so much antagonism as amusement. And, the "frat scene" at Swarthmore exists as more of a parody than anything else.</p>

<p>The reality is that 1 out of every 5 Swatties is on a varsity sports team. Furthermore, there is very little self-segregation in campus housing, so you don't have "jock dorms". There are athletes mixed with non-athletes on virtually every hall of every dorm and there's no difference. Several of the senior guys on my daughter's floor are varsity lacrosse players. They have been terrific informal role models, mentors, and friends to the freshmen. A very positive experience.</p>

<p>I think that an athlete who expects the more typical segregation of sports teams as a "clique" separate from the larger college community probably won't be a good fit at Swarthmore. Sports teams that have isolated themselves from the larger community have created some tension in the past. For example, at one time in the late 70s and early 80s, Swarthmore had a very successful football program. After an undefeated conference-winning season, the coach was fired. There was a sense that, largely as a result of recruiting, the football team was growing further apart from the campus community and developing a culture that really didn't fit with Swarthmore.</p>

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<p>For those of you who'd like to learn more about the town of Swarthmore, I actually am from there. I would say that it is a cute town, with very little to do. It is true that there are plenty of restaurants, malls, shops, etc., and other neighborhoods (like Media) around...but you really need a car to get to those places. The train that takes you into Philly is very expensive and can cost around 4 dollars one way (and stops running before midnight). I also worked at the college during the summer before my senior year of high school and talked to at least 3 kids who were not happy there. However, I think it is all about personal preference. These kids just went to the wrong school for them - they did not like the small size, the studious atmosphere, the suburban quiteness and (however shallow this may sound) found a lot of the students to be "weird." To get to Haverford, or Bryn Mawr one needs a car, which may or may not be a con. With a car, a student would never run out of things to do.</p>

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<p>I am looking at Swarthmore, Haverford and other LACs with interest right now as my next son may well be a good candidate for them. Too early to really tell, but I have the feeling. The social scene interests me as that is something that is likely to be important for him.</p>

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<p>RE: Car</p>

<p>A car is the last thing you need at Swat. The college runs their vans to Bryn Mawr/Haverford, to the malls on Saturday afternoons, and to downtown Phila on Friday and Saturday nights. If you don't want to wait for the shuttle, a SEPTA city bus route runs right through campus and continues up the road to the Springfield Mall, Target, Best Buy. My daughter figured that one out by the end of September (helps to have seniors living in the next room!) </p>

<p>You can pay the train fare quite a few times before you get to the $50 a month fee for parking your car in the village of Swarthmore. To me, not needing a car is a huge plus for Swarthmore. Easy to get to the airport. $29 Southwest fares to Boston. $79 to Atlanta. 90 minute train ride to NYC or DC.</p>

<p>As for student satisfaction: For the last three entering freshman classes, 95.6%, 97%, and 95.1% have returned to Swarthmore for their sophmore year. Those numbers indicate widespread satisfaction (along with a well-heeled customer base and financial aid program, of course). That's only 15 freshmen a year that bail for various reasons. I think we had 15 freshmen here on CC who transfered (or were already planning to) after one semester. It's a hard transition, sometimes. Sometimes, you just plain pick the wrong school.</p>