<p>Britbrat, I will be interested in what they say about the feasibility of a dual engineering-BFA in MT degree at University of Michigan. On my D's audition day, someone raised his hand and asked if he would be able to be in the Michigan marching band and do the BFA, and Mr. Wagner said it would be impossible, as the BFA takes too much time! If there isn't time to be in the marching band (which admittedly is a big deal at Michigan), I am skeptical that someone could also take a full engineering load and the BFA. But I have been wrong (tons of times!) before. :) Please let us know what they say.</p>
<p>Actormcfamous, you are mature beyond your years! I am glad you chimed in to give the perspective of a student about the age of britbrat's son. Your post is what I have been thinking as well but it makes more sense coming from a teenager. I will just concur that while I think it is great that as a parent, to support one's child, and to even do some research or legwork on their behalf to garner information (or simply read this forum!), the kind of decision making as to which path to take is really something just the student should be grappling with (of course a parent would listen or help by asking probing questions to help the student discover what they want). But the figuring out which kind of school to attend and which kind of degree and all that, really needs to rest with the student. Ideally, this kind of thing would have been decided before this summer and a college list firmly developed, although it surely is not too late. But this is the kind of thing the student has to explore on his own and decide, with a parent there for support or who is willing to look something up on his behalf, etc. I agree with actormcfamous to let your son take the lead and do his thing and be there to support and to facilitate and if he wants you to look up some information, that's OK. But this exploration of college options is something the student should be doing himself. A parent can probe and ask questions to help facilitate that. A parent can make the flights and hotel arrangements. But this kind of decision making and discovery of the options and which path is right for oneself, lies with the student as this is the student's decision. I would let the student take the lead and be there to support or help when they ask for it. All of this looking into stuff is really what the student needs to do and then decide (with a parent there to support or help if the student needs help sorting it out). As parents, we all want what is best for our kids and have spent all these years helping our children. But the college decision is the first big decision that the young adult needs to be exploring on their own and making, along with parental support of course. The majority of the legwork should be by the student as he is going to college and needs to own this journey. It is a big transition for a parent to make, surely.</p>
<p>Thanks all. Yes, it will be his decision and he has had his list for a while. The only difference is that he chose schools where he thought he could do a dual degree and after the information suggested here might have to change his list. Until we get to the colleges and ask the questions to the people who make the decisions, a lot is speculation. I have done campus visits with my s on the West Coast and do the driving, but I have not asked any of the questions nor given my opinion until he expresses his. He knows what he likes and I have no doubt he will make his decisions. He fell in love with Stanford and rejected Berkeley within 1 hours of visiting. I realize the value of letting the student do the work but he specifically asked me to look into these things while he was gone for 3 weeks to BTP. As I have said before, I am sure that much more will be revealed when we visit the schools next month and the list will either reduce or expand. Thanks again for all of your opinions.</p>
<p>To Post #41. NotMamaRose, I will be interested myself to see what they say as I have been communicating with a Jr from U. of Mich and he says that if you come in with enough AP credits to satisfy most or all of the gen ed and take no more than 18 credits per semester (which is all that the college will allow), that many dual degrees are being done with a BFA MT in 10 semesters. The way he explained it was that the full schedule of MT is done and 1 or 2 classes from the other discipline each semester (on the condition that the gen ed is complete)fills in the schedule. He explains that it is much like a transfer student who comes in with gen ed req completed and has it out of the way. Now, granted this is only one student, one school but it does raise questions, and I think that if it is not possible nor advised that the university should take it off their MT BFA page. It is an unfair "hook" to advertise such on their page if it is such a far fetched concept. I will ask the student at U of Mich that I have been corresponding with if he knows of a few more students that have done it that we can get first hand info from.</p>
<p>britbrat....there is a big difference in a dual degree with a BFA in MT and a second major that is a BA in a liberal arts subject than if the second major is engineering. That is the thing. A dual degree is possible at UMich, make no question. Is the student you are talking to doing engineering and the BFA in MT or a BA in something with the BFA in MT? The latter IS possible. Combining with engineering would be very tricky because I have not heard of an engineering program that only has one or two classes in that discipline required per semester. The point is that both the BFA in MT and the engineering programs are NOT normal majors and take up a lot of required courses per semester (forget gen. ed stuff). I can't imagine an engineering major that allows for just one or two classes per semester. Most engineering programs are similar to BFA programs in that about 2/3's or 3/4's of the coursework is in the major. But if you can find this combo at UMich, please make sure to ask Brent Wagner or Laura Strozeski about it and not the admissions office. Ask them how viable it would be to do the BFA in MT with engineering (this is NOT the same question as asking if a dual degree is possible because it is). Even if the BFA/Engin. combo can be done at UMich.....not sure how this affects the decision as to which type of degree program to pursue and to build the college list as that is just ONE school and this won't be possible at most schools. As well, the BFA in MT at UMich is VERY difficult to get into no matter how talented. So, my feeling is that while this is worth looking into, your son would still have to make some decisions as to whether he wants a BFA in MT, a BA and double major, a focus on engineering, etc. in order to build a college list.</p>
<p>PS...I do not find UMich's site misleading. In fact, a BFA in MT can be combined with ah BA in LSA. Also, perhaps engineering can be combined with a program in the music school....a music major. That still is not the same as a BFA in MT with Engineering. Perhaps that can be done too, I do not know. But ask the MT Department their thoughts on it. That's who I would talk to, not admissions.</p>
<p>I also don't think that the site is hooking anyone in. It is very very rare to have someone who wants to do both an engineering degree and a BFA in MT. A BFA is most geared to those who want to focus on ONE thing (possibly with a minor in something else....and a few schools allow another BA major though that is difficult...and some schools even that is not possible). For those who truly want to equally study two subjects, a BA is the more appropriate path (with some exceptions.....such as doing theater and English). The whole concept behind a BA is to allow students to not just study one thing and to get a more liberal education. A BFA is a very focused professional degree program that doesn't allow for as much study of all subjects or intense study in another subject, particularly one that is course-rich intensive like engineering. I think the webpage for UMich...the way I interpret it....is more like combining a BFA in MT with a BA in LSA or combining engineering with a music major and it is rare to consider combining a BFA in MT with engineering.</p>
<p>Perhaps UMich allows that combo but I don't see the point with focusing on what UMich allows. The decision as to types of degree programs will need to be made by your son in order to create a college list and UMich (IF they allows the BFA in MT with Engineering combo) will be a big exception and it will be hard to find in other schools, let alone that getting into the BFA in MT at UMich is very chancy odds in the first place (not to say he should not apply!)</p>
<p>Laura Strozeski is very nice about answering questions by email. You might just try sending her an email on this topic, britbrat (mentioning your son's many AP credits) and see what she says. One thing to remember about the BFA in MT program is that not all of the hours are spent in the classroom: there also are after-hours rehearsals and so forth that the student has to contend with.</p>
<p>soozievt...it was an engineering degree that he was speaking about. At U of Mich, you do are not required to declare a major in engineering until the end of the second year, so it is a lot of gen sciences, math, etc and an engineering course is offered that is a sample of all 12 engineering disciplines over the course of one or 2 semesters. The real work does not start until the second or third year when one decides what type of engineering they are going to concentrate on. Yes, many are doing the BFA/BS in environmental science studies with the LSA school, but I understood you to say that it was discouraged to do anything with a BFA so I am confused now. Is it or is it not? I would understand a dual major within the same discipline, but my "beef" about advertising it on their webpage is that they specifically link it to a dual degree in the college or engineering, Ross school of Business, or the LSA, so I say take it off there if it is not adviseable. That is all that I am saying. I think that they should just be honest if it is not physically and "schedule" possible. I really dont want to waste any more of your valuable time though, as you are obviously very knowledgeable in your field and I am prpbably frustrating both of us by pontificating, so I will, as I said, ask the questions, and if it doesn't "pan out", we will go back to square one. His first choice has been Stanford for a while now for engineering, and it doesn't even have a BFA MT, so as you said, it will be HIS decision.</p>
<p>And yes, trust me I understand the difficulty in being accepted to U of Mich. BFA MT program. To my knowledge, noone from my son's school has been admitted to U. of Mich. BFA MT program in the last few years (I dont know whether by choice or lack of acceptances),and have 6 going to NYU this year out of a class of 60. Maybe he will love the college and apply just to their College of Engineering and try out for one of the many acappella groups.
Only time will tell, but if he does end up being a successful "singing, dancing, engineer", I will be sure and let you all know :)</p>
<p>I am saying that even a dual degree or double major with a BFA in MT is not that common and actually not possible at some schools. However, it IS possible at some....such as UMich or NYU/Tisch. So, while difficult, I think your son could combine a BFA in MT with a BA/BS in Environmental Science Studies. YES. The combo of a BFA in MT with engineering seems much less likely to me, though I can't say for sure if it is allowed or not at UMich. I think their site shows dual degrees and indeed a BFA in MT CAN be combined with another major in LSA, for example. Or Engineering likely can be combined with some majors in the Music School. It is the combo of the BFA in MT with Engineering that I am less sure about, that's all. I am not sure how that would be scheduled. But even if it is possible, ask the MT people what they think of that particular combo (that is not the same as asking about double majors). And even if it is possible, your son still has to decide what degree path he wants as UMich, IF they allow that exact combo, will be an exception to the rule. </p>
<p>Your son needs to decide if he wants to focus on one thing or a couple of things. A BA is most suitable for someone who wants to equally concentrate on two things. If he wants to focus on one thing and have a second area that is secondary, then a BFA in MT or an Engineering program would allow a secondary interest that is perhaps a minor more easily. He could do engineering and do a BA minor in theater with it. He could do a BFA in MT and do another major or minor in Environmental Studies. But generally speaking, a BFA in MT is most suited to those who want to mostly focus in ONE area. If he wants options, a BA is a much better path and he can still study theater! Also, the way he is uncertain (based on what you are relating on his behalf) between engineering and MT....that uncertainty alone is a good indicator that a BA may be a more suitable option because it allows for flexibility and more options whereas a BFA is very locked in and meant for those who are 110% CERTAIN they want to focus on MT. </p>
<p>If your son's first choice is Stanford, that says to me that he is happy to major in engineering and double with or minor in a BA theater program. I would look at that and realize that perhaps a BFA in MT is not the right fit because those who want a BFA are usually very very certain of that as the main thing. Those who are uncertain or have an equal interest in another area, are more suited to a BA path. </p>
<p>This is the FIRST question your son must answer and not focus too much on what UMich offers.</p>
<p>With that said, is the "big list" the one to go to for the schools that offer the BA in MT? We will still visit all of these places because he has chosen them for the fact that they have very good engineering and MT schools. The degree choices will fall into place after we have seen the campuses, asked the questions and processed all of the information. Yes, I see the point that you are trying to make and all I can say is that academics seem to be his focus and MT is his hobby. Possibly the BFA is just the wrong path for him! As recently as 2 days ago when I spoke to him from BTP, he asked me to research a couple of MT schools for him, but his first request was, "please find out what kind of engineering school they have". I believe his focus is pretty clear.</p>
<p>The Big List has some BA in MT schools on it, as well as BFA ones. As well, if you do a search of this MT Forum for BA in MT schools, there are many discussions of such schools. I have worked with many students who opted to pursue a BA path even though they have very strong backgrounds in MT. There are not a lot of BA in MT schools but there are some. However, many regular theater departments offer MT courses and MT productions and so I would not overlook BA in Theater schools, if you find ones that have many MT opportunities. For example, your son could do engineering at Brown and also Theater and there are a lot of MT opportunities at Brown. I also have posted some on this topic with some suggested schools where he could combine engineering and theater to you in recent times.</p>
<p>It also seems unclear to me if your son knows the difference between a BFA and a BA. His recent question to you implies that he may not.</p>
<p>I am not sure I understand your last post #53. Can you elaborate a bit?</p>
<p>Let me clarify. He is not interested in a college that does not have an engineering program. That is why he chose the schools that he did to further research. Even if they dont have a BFA in MT, they do as you say have MT opportunities, for instance, one of the schools has a very fine acapella group of guys that are all engineering majors, so the two do go hand in hand. I think he just wants to know that the school has both.</p>
<p>Johns Hopkins has an excellent engineering school with opportunities to study acting and to be in a number of plays and musicals. However, there is no BA or BFA program in musical theater or acting there. University of Maryland (College Park) has one of the top engineering schools in the nation and offers both acting and musical theater opportunities through the theater and music departments. Plus, College Park is close to Washington, DC and theater opportunities abound there.</p>
<p>What I meant was that he is asking for schools that offer both fields and this is more appropriate to someone seeking a BA, not a BFA. I have had students say they want both MT and Communications and it is more appropriate that they seek BA schools and they have (example, one girl is doing the BA in MT by audition at American and communications). Kids who are usually seeking a BFA and understand what a BFA entails, do not usually seek schools that offer two fields equally. That is why I am not sure if he gets the difference between a BFA and a BA. I have had to redirect some kids to do a BA path who really want two fields and want options, etc. </p>
<p>Your son truly could do an engineering program and still do theater at many schools. I mentioned Tufts as an option. There are many others with that combo.</p>
<p>Great. On to my research.</p>
<p>Britbrat
On a complete aside. One of the local semi-pro theatre compaines in my area was founded and directed by an Engineer who worked with GE (he now works for a smaller company.) The primary choreographer for the company is a chemical engineer who did a dual major in ballet and engineering. So it just goes to show that there are singing and dancing engineers out there, who at least post graduation are juggling both loves - albeit at a regional level.</p>
<p>My daughter has performed professionally with several symphonies. The choreographer and person staging the pieces, who also teaches ballet at a top college and who also has been the choreographer on Broadway, for many symphonies, operas and ballet companies, has a degree in cell biology.</p>