<p>Thanks. That will be great and I will ask the schools when I visit if they have any students names and maybe email addresses that my son could chat with so that we can create our list. There is also graduate school, so if he is able to do a BFA/BS at one of these schools, he may be able to further that engineering/environment sciences path at a later juncture.</p>
<p>britbrat,</p>
<p>Two more comments. I have never heard of a college, or theatre department, which would not be willing to put you in touch with current or graduated students. If the college which has this dual program you are interested in is telling you this, I would be very suspect that there have, in fact, been many kids who have successfully accomplished the dual program. They don't have to infringe on any privacy rules or laws. They can simply contact the students themselves and inquire as to permission to pass along their info to your son, or conversely to pass along your son's contact info to them.</p>
<p>Secondly, the fact that your son attended an arts h/s will not mean that he will not be challenged, nor will it mean that he is ahead of his classmates. My D, and many of her friends, attended an arts h/s and they were all challenged by the curriculum in their BFAs. She had many classmates at Tisch who had also attended an arts h/s, maybe even the one your son attended, and she had many classmates who hadn't attended an arts h/s. Don't make the mistake of believing that the kids who are not arts h/s grads are not every bit as trained as the arts h/s kids are. Training can be accomplished in many ways and I would say that the majority of kids in BFA programs are motivated, heavily scheduled, hard workers, who are used to long days of school, and evenings and weekends of rehearsals, shows, and training. Most professional actors continue to take classes, many even when they're in Broadway shows. Acting is a profession where the learning opportunities never stop.</p>
<p>britbrat...first, I don't doubt one bit that a BFA in MT student at UMich can double major with LSA. At Tisch, a BFA in MT student can also double major. This is not true at all BFA schools. You do say that apparently there was a student who doubled the BFA in MT with Engineering at UMich and that's cool but you will be hard pressed to find 8-10 schools where that combo is possible. Thus, your son needs to decide...if he really wants to focus on two things, a BA may be a more suitable degree path. If he wants a solo focus, a BFA makes sense. If he is content to focus on one area and then minor in another, then doing either a BFA in MT with a minor in environmental science OR an engineering program with a minor in theater would be fine options to consider.</p>
<p>I think I should also go back to the Mom that I visited with last week whose daughter applied and auditioned for 14 schools and was accepted to 10. If she is willing to share her list (which I am sure that she is), maybe that will help to widen our focus. I do, however, think that it is almost unfair to apply to so many schools and have an acceptance rate of the above mentioned student because it seems that it somehow shuts out other students opportunities. If a selective school is going to accept 15 to 20, how many do they send acceptance letters to in order to realize that class size and do they have a waitlist after that? I know that the schools that the student above applied and auditioned for were highly competetive and you can only accept 1 offer. Doesn't it seem unfair to do that or is it all in the name of fair competition?</p>
<p>Post 22. I don't mean to sound arrogant or imply that my son is better than anyone else, as I realize that all of the students in those programs have worked very hard. My s is relatively new to the whole MT world. He has only had 3 voice lessons in his life and only started dancing when he was 15, so I am by no means saying that he is unique. What I do see (in comparison to some of his classmates) is a drive and a hunger to learn as much and as intensely as he can. Some of his classmates as I stated in an earlier post are choosing an easy schedule academically for their senior year, no AP's, etc. etc. There are 3 girls from his school at BTP with him this year and although they are having a great time, there is a difference in their experiences. One of the girls is exhausted from the rigors of the training from 8am to 11pm - 7days a week and needs 7 hours of sleep every night. I am only saying that each student is very individual and most of his peers do not have the academic drive that he does. I am just trying to find someone who is as academically driven as they are artistically and I am having trouble finding that type of studento to visit with.</p>
<p>post #24 :) Most schools will accept more students that they intend to yield in order to get the number they want in a class. The ratio of acceptance to yield is based on prior year's yield. Many of these schools also use a waitlist. There are a few schools that only accept the number of students that they intend to enroll and then go to a waitlist of not all the students accept the offer. I believe that CMU and Otterbein work this way.</p>
<p>Each student has to complete a list of schools at which they believe they could be happy. I do not believe this is selfish. The process is high competitive, and students want to make sure that they have a well rounded list of schools to which they apply.</p>
<p>Thanks KatMT. I just thought it was a bit greedy to apply for 6 or 8 schools or more that only accept 15 or 20 and have several acceptances. Is this a fairly common occurance that several of the "top" schools all accept the same group of students?</p>
<p>Britbrat,
The number of total schools one applies to is based on individual cases. My daughter applied to 8 colleges (all BFAs). Most students' lists will be between 8-12 schools. But each case is different and I have had students apply to a different amount of schools based on many factors. For instance, a kid interested in both BFAs and BAs may have more schools. I think very few kids need more than 12 schools. There are exceptions and it is a case by case basis. </p>
<p>As far as how many they accept vs. how many a program hopes to yield....varies from school to school and there is a thread on the MT Forum that is currently featured where people posted the number who auditioned, number accepted and number yielded based on their knowledge (it is not proven for each school but gives a good idea). </p>
<p>If the girl you know applied to 14 BFAs and got into 10, she truly did not need 14 and was competitive. We felt our D was competitive and applied to 8 and had many choices. I would not want to do 14 applications and auditions unless there was clear justification for doing so (child's artistic skills were iffy or academics were iffy or they had not narrowed the focus of the type of school they wanted yet or the FA aid would play a big factor, etc.)</p>
<p>From reading this board, and from looking at the schools that the kids who have auditioned for me the past two years tell me they are applying to -- it appears that no two kids have the same list of schools. Some of them seemed to apply to a few of the same schools, and from the emails I received from kids who let me know where they were deciding between, there will be kids who are accepted to many schools. But, because most schools accept more than they hope will come, and more student apply to many schools it seems that for the most part things work out if a student has balanced list of schools.</p>
<p>brit brat....
You mention that your son is both artistically talented and also a top academic student who takes very hard classes. There are many BFA students like that and then there are many who are NOT like that. I have clients (as well as my own daughter) who exceled both artistically and academically, but I also have some who are not strong academic students at all. I see both types of students go into BFA in MT programs. Just so you know, your son will not be unique in being strong both artistically and academically. He may care about and wish to look into BFA in MT programs located at more academically selective colleges. My D cared about that and so she preferred schools like NYU and UMich but cast a wider net and still applied to schools where the academic bar is not high such as BOCO or Ithaca. But there are many students whom I know who are very strong academic types who are also pursuing BFAs.</p>
<p>Fair enough. So even though it is advised to have a large variety of schools, 10 to 12 is definately enough? Maybe you can relate to this with your d sounding like she was much like my s in her academic excellence and artistic excellence. He is being pulled apart by the 2 schools of thought. The academic teachers are encouraging an Engineering degree because he seems to do so well with that aspect and all of the artistic teachers are encouraging the performance aspect. As I stated before, he does not see himself teaching, composing, doing costumes, producing, etc., etc., so it is the performance side that is the most appealing. It sounds like a BFA in MT gives the best training for that but maybe not necessarily. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>A person who chooses a BFA should be ready to commit to MT (or Acting) as their primary focus and be driven and passionate about that field (even if they have other interests). Someone who is not sure of which field to pursue or who wants back up fields or options is better suited to a BA. Many who do a BA in theater go on to much success in the field. A BFA is not the only way to go into this field. </p>
<p>My D is also interested in performing on stage. However, she doesn't feel she needs a second field as a "back up". She is going all the way with her performance pursuit. But she has "back up" skills in theater such as musical directing and composing, etc. That doesn't mean she ain't goin' for it as a performer. It simply means she has other ways to earn income while staying in her field and need not study another field as a "back up". </p>
<p>In terms of academics, she chose a school, her first choice, NYU, that allows for liberal arts and she enjoys those courses. She is a gifted writer and will receive a fine education. She plans to be a performer and be in the arts but she also will be educated and could do many things with her college degree. </p>
<p>I can't tell you how many schools are "enough". As I wrote earlier, it is a very indvidual thing and I have students who have a different total number of schools. I was just saying that MOST kids' lists should fall into the 8-12 schools range for MT. My D applied to 8. This number was right for her and may not be for someone else and I'd have to assess each case on many factors. It is rare that a kid needs 14 schools, in my opinion.</p>
<p>Great! Thanks!</p>
<p>I just want to add that those for whom a BFA is appropriate....KNOW this is what they want to do and have not considered something else. My D knew she wanted a BFA in MT for years before she applied to college. It doesn't matter what the teachers were saying. It was in her blood. What does your son say? Does he KNOW? If he is unsure, a BA path makes sense.</p>
<p>I'll add that at our HS, no one was remotely surprised that my D went onto college for MT despite being strong in academics. They knew she was driven in MT. Deciding what to study in college NEVER EVER came up in a discussion. I can't explain it...she knew. Her nursery school evaluation even mentioned going into MT, LOL.</p>
<p>All I can say it that we have known since he was 5 that he had a georgous voice and being that it was never used for anything but church work until he was 15 it is hard to say. Music has been a part of his life, but never THE focus. Like I said earlier, no voice lessons other than 3 when his voice changed and just doesn't "work at it". I can't explain it either. He is taken aback when people rave about his talent and almost shies away from the "stardom" thing, so I don't know how to assess it myself. He seems "blown away" when he is awarded leads or given awards for something that he loves to do, but I don't know if I would say that he "lives and breathes it". I just dont see him as the same as some of his classmates who absolutely have a "melt down" if they are not cast for something. I just don't know the answers.</p>
<p>My D has never had a meltdown if not cast. But theater is her passion and is at the core of her being. For her, only a BFA made sense. There was no discussion of what to major in at college. We knew it for years and years. </p>
<p>Your son sounds very talented. Even so, ideally, he should be in voice lessons if he hopes to audition for BFA in MT programs. Even those with raw talent should be studying voice. You have mentioned in other posts a concern that he won't learn new things in a BFA program given the kind of school he already attends for HS. But if he has only had three voice lessons in his life, I can guarantee you that he will learn a lot with voice in college. My D took private voice for five years before college (but entered college at 16) and has said she has learned so much with her voice in college and can sing material and range that she never could do prior to college, even though she was known for her voice before college. She is in a show in NYC next weekend and said that the voice part she was given in the show is one she would not have been able to sing prior to her training in college. And that is for a kid who did study voice and music for years. I can assure you that your son is going to learn and grow in college even if he is entering with lots of talent (as he sounds like he has). The talent I see in my D's peers at college is very very high. These programs are so selective that the peers in the group are all the standouts from their home communities. It will not be like HS.</p>
<p>Thanks soozievt. I think I will rest until he returns from BTP. I heard from him last night and he was excited because he had experience 2 vocal callbacks with Jay Binder and I don't know what any of that means until he gets back and I can get more details. I do know that all of the auditions and callbacks are "mock" and for the purpose of the program, but he seemed pretty excited about that opportunity, so maybe Mr. Binder gave him some suggestions.</p>
<p>britbat, it has often been said on this forum that if a student can see themselves doing anything else at all at the conclusion of college other than MT, then a BFA is not the right choice. A BFA MT program is singularly focused, to the exclusion of everything else, on preparing a student to enter the world of professional theatre. When your son returns, perhaps it would make sense to have a focused discussion of whether he is willing to forego engineering or environmental sciences for the foreseeable future because he has concluded that there is nothing that he wants to do in the foreseeable future other than try to make it as a professional performer. His answers - even if it is an expression of ambiguity - should guide how you approach the college process with him. Forget what his academic and artistic teachers tell him or you. It's his answers that count.</p>
<p>Thank you. I will have that discussion and we will ask the questions when we visit the colleges next month.</p>
<p>Britbrat1961 - you've been talking almost exclusively about what direction you see your son taking and offering up various confirmations of his talent. While important, I don't really see those as relevant to the BA/BFA decision. In addition, I really honestly think that the rest of this decision needs to be his. He should be the one weighing the various aspects of a BFA versus BA, and it seems as though you're doing a lot of that work for him at the moment. I'd encourage you to let him take the lead during your college visits next month and just sit back and let him do his thing - if he is as motivated and passionate as you have described him to be I'm sure he will be more than able to ask the right questions that will lead him to the "right" decision, whatever that may be.</p>