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<p>haha. totally true. it's kind of funny when i think about how many of my friends are athletes...</p>
<p>Ehhh, the Stanford Mall isn't exactly the most student friendly shopping center.</p>
<p>Somehow I doubt most students can afford to shop at Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Guess, Armani, Coach, Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, Keneth Cole, Tommy Bahama, etc.</p>
<p>The mall is very upscale, which makes building a cinema complex inappropriate.</p>
<p>Another con: Vaden Health Center, the most useless health center on the entire planet</p>
<p>Have a cold? Take Tylenol. Have mono? Take Tylenol. Broke your arm? Take Tylenol. Got AIDS? Tylenol should do it!</p>
<p>The last time I went the "doctor" didn't know how to do a throat culture test!!???!!!! </p>
<p>Rant over! I love Stanford BTW. Would choose it over all the damn ivies any day.</p>
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I don't think it really matters if MIT and Caltech have "better" research opportunities if Stanford offers research opportunities for anyone who is interested and has at least a decent idea for research. If you can do research on whatever you want to study does the ranking really matter? Also, just fyi, at the admissions presentation I went to in LA they really pushed research opportunities as one reason to go to Stanford.
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<p>Well, I still think it DOES matter. It's not just about having research opportunities, and not even just about being allowed to research anything you want, but also about having a support system that helps you to research whatever you want, and, even more importantly, waives you from stupid monkey-work-style research activities that other universities tend to call "research". For example, at a nearby large state university that shall remain nameless, what is deemed "research" is often times little more than just cleaning glassware, prepping samples, entering data into Excel, or similar mindless work. That's not exactly a high-quality research activity. For some people who just want to say that they did "research", then these activites might be fine. But for those people who actually want to learn something, these activities are not fine. You don't learn much by cleaning glassware.</p>
<p>Now, don't get me wrong. I never said that Stanford was 'bad' at providing research. Obviously Stanford is one of the best. So clearly Stanford has something to brag about. That's not the issue. The issue is whether Stanford is as good as MIT or Caltech. For example, we all agree that Kobe Bryant is a fantastic basketball player, but the equivalent parallel question is whether he's as good as Shaq. </p>
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For me, the fact that Harvard is in Boston would actually be a con.
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<p>Let me clear things up right now. Except for the Allston campus where the business school is, Harvard is NOT in Boston. Neither is MIT, if anybody is wondering. They are in Cambridge. Cambridge is across the river from Boston, but it is NOT Boston. </p>
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And honestly with the activites and classes everyone takes, no one really has <em>that</em> much time to go into the city.
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<p>Like I said, it's not so much about going 'into' the city, but really about the option of LIVING in the city while going to school. This may be less of an issue if you're an undergrad at Harvard, as most Harvard undergrads live on campus. But it is a HUGE deal if you're a grad student. The fact that you can live in, say, the North End or Back Bay, and just commute to Harvard every day (a short commute) is highly appealing to many people. </p>
<p>I wish they'd bring BART down to Stanford/Palo Alto (Caltrain is a very poor substitute). That would produce a sea change of people who could then reasonably live in San Francisco and commute to Stanford without having to drive in. Let's face it. Parking in SF is a bitc*. But if you want to live in San Francisco while going to Stanford, you basically need a car, which also means that you need a parking spot in SF. </p>
<p>This can especially be a big deal for older, more established students (i.e. grad students). For example, if you have a spouse who works in SF, or you have an established life in SF (i.e. you have a family there), then you probably don't want to uproot all your loved ones so that you can move to Palo Alto. So that means you have to commute. It's even more painful if your ties are to the East Bay, because that basically means that Caltrain is not an option. In contrast, Harvard and MIT are quite "spouse-friendly" in the sense that your spouse can get a job in downtown Boston, you can live together somewhere that is mutually acceptable to both of you, and neither of you have to put up with a long commute. So if you already have an established life in Boston, you don't have to uproot much of anything to attend Harvard or MIT, and they can just commute in. Similarly, an easy commute means that you can take an internship or an extracurricular activity that is right in the middle of Boston. For example, I know a number of Harvard Business School and MITSloan MBA students who, while studying were also working part-time (i.e. 1-2 hours a day) at finance jobs in downtown Boston, which they could get to easily via a short subway or bus ride. </p>
<p>Lest you think this is unreasonable to commute to school, I would simply point out that the vast vast majority of people in the world commute to work. Few people actually live where they work. So if you can't envision commuting as a student, I don't know how you're going to hold down a real job. Eventually, you're going to have to get used to commuting. So the real question is how easy the commute is. Stanford's commute is nowhere near as friendly as Harvard's or MIT's or even Berkeley's. </p>
<p>Now, again, nobody is saying that these are deal-breakers. Obviously there are ways to work around any problem. But the OP asked for cons, so I am providing cons. The fact is, there isn't much going on in Palo Alto, and commuting options are limited, such that if you want to go someplace where things actually happen, either in terms of jobs or in terms of entertainment, it basically means that you need a car. I would say that for many people, including myself, that is a con. Like I said, I think that Stanford is a wonderful institution, but it would be even better if BART was extended down to Palo Alto, for example. Or if Stanford was magically teleported to SF.</p>
<p>"It's not just about having research opportunities, and not even just about being allowed to research anything you want, but also about having a support system that helps you to research whatever you want, and, even more importantly, waives you from stupid monkey-work-style research activities that other universities tend to call "research"."</p>
<p>I <em>think</em> Stanford provides all of that. I haven't gotten involved in research yet on campus because I wanted to shop around and get to know a bunch of profs and find out what type of physics I'm interested in and what type of lab setting before diving in. I'd be shocked if there wasn't some kind of support system (seriously, Stanford has SO many resources like that for advising, career placement, other support networks that it's hard to keep track of them all) and I'd also be shocked if it was all mindless work. I've certainly never talked to anyone who was frustrated with research opportunities. I've talked to a lot of people who have been amazed how easy it was to get involved in research with profs they wanted to work with. Anyone else know more about that? </p>
<p>For grad school I think you have a point that being near a city that allows for commuting might be a pro. If you're a business school student having internship/job positions available is probably important, and it's probably nice to have public transportation that can get you where you want to be. I don't think that really matters for undergrad though because I think you'd really be missing out on a huge part of the college experience if you don't live on campus. You learn so much from your peers and it would be sad not to get to experience that.</p>
<p>This "pros and cons" thread seems a little heavy on the cons, and more than a little heavy on posts from students who have never attended Stanford. It happened that I wanted to open a thread today with the title I have used for this post, so rather than multiply threads needlessly, let me just turn this thread to its more open-ended title, and ask, What do you like about Stanford?" Feel free to tell me (us) about anything that you find appealing about the Stanford experience, inside or outside of class. I'm expecting to hear especially from actual Stanford students, not from curious onlookers like myself.</p>
<p>Wow, there is just so much I like about Stanford! Where should I start? </p>
<p>As most college students will tell you, what makes a school great is the people. Everyone I've met has an interesting story to tell about their life. They haven't all cured cancer or been in the olympics, but they have done something interesting. The students are generally pretty friendly, down to earth, supportive, and just want to enjoy their time at Stanford. Most of them are involved in at least one activity and are pretty passionate about it whether it's a sport or research or dancing or a club. I love meeting new people and wish I had more time just to hang out with friends. </p>
<p>There are SO many resources on campus for everything. It's hard to keep track of them all! There are tons of different types of advising (academic, career, etc.). If you need help or support with anything there will be some organization on campus that can help. There are tons of opportunities for research and lots of funding for research both during the year and during the summer (Summer Research College). </p>
<p>There are tons of ways in which Stanford tries to make your freshman year amazing. The dorms have events during the year like a scavenger hunt in san fran, a dance on a boat in the bay, secret snowflakes, a dorm event called crossing the line, etc. Stanford works very hard to make your residential experience great as well as your academic experience and it shows! They also have introductory seminars that are small classes with a prof who usually is really into whatever they are teaching. </p>
<p>Most profs are very approachable even if they don't seem it at first. The campus has a very relaxed atmosphere. Many of my profs have lectured in jeans and a t-shirt or polo, the dressiest they get is usually khakis and a button down (only one prof so far has worn a suit and he was a guest lecturer). I think the laid back environment makes Stanford a bit more like a small liberal arts college when it comes to student-faculty interactions. Sure you still have larger classes than you might at a small college, but it is really easy to get to know your profs. I knew most of my profs last quarter really well, I'd just find a time to stop by and chat. I talked to my philosophy prof a lot about physics, so it doesn't even have to be all that related to the course material. Of course some profs are better than others and there will be some who will be harder to approach, but I've found that most profs really do want to meet and talk to students and are there to help you learn. </p>
<p>I've also had some amazing TAs. It's great to have someone in addition to your prof who can explain the material in a slightly different way. Sometimes the TAs end up being better teachers than the profs because they remember what it was like to not understand the material. I also had great TFs in IHUM (essentially TAs, but with PhDs and a bit more teaching responsibility) who I would still go and hang out with during my free time (and I have!). (For any current Stanford kids who think I'm crazy for that, in my defense one of them was Bob Jones who is just awesome) </p>
<p>This probably isn't relevant to many of you, but I've really loved this group I'm in called Intervarsity Christian Fellowship. For me, that's been the best part about Stanford. The students in the group are amazing and I couldn't ask for a better staff. If any of you are interested in that feel free to PM me or something for more details. </p>
<p>My classes have been really good for the most part. My first quarter IHUM wasn't so great (Human/Machine), but I loved my TF so that made up for it. I loved my winter/spring IHUM, The Fate of Reason. The 50 series math series was pretty good, the first quarter was amazing because I had a great prof and the next too were just ok. I really enjoyed the physics 60 series courses and the labs. My spring intro sem was pretty cool too. </p>
<p>Hmm... what else? I'm sure there's so much more that I forgot. I love how there's a good sense of community, especially within the dorms. Last year I was in a freshman dorm and it was a really great experience, I highly recommend the freshman dorms. Before admit weekend I was sure I wanted a four class dorm so I could study quietly, but luckily I was convinced that I should be in an all frosh dorm. Everyone looks out for each other and helps each other out and it's just a fun place to be. We had really amazing student staff and our resident fellows (the family that lives next to the dorm) were great too. I was really worried about lack of a sense of community (vs. say, a small LAC) but I was really thrilled to find that I could find that at Stanford too through the dorm and Intervarsity and even other students in the 60 series in physics to some extent. </p>
<p>Most students really love their experience, and I think that makes a huge difference in my quality of life. It's hard not to love Stanford. Sure there are a couple of people I know who weren't crazy about it, but I've actually only talked to two people who have expressed that they don't love Stanford. Most students are sad when they graduate and make signs that say stuff like "Hell no we won't go!" and "Four more years!" To me, that's the best indication that it's a great place to be. I really love it at Stanford. Most of my complaints are really dumb things like dining hall hours, Vaden Health Care Center (there's an urgent care center across the street from campus that's actually really good), gender quotas in dorms and the housing draw, etc.</p>
<p>tokenadult,</p>
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<p>the thread said pros and cons, but they wanted to know more about cons. i'm sure everyone knows 30283 reasons why stanford is awesome, so it makes sense to want to know the cons more than the pros that have been hammered into you.</p>
<p>i would type out everything that i like about stanford, but i have to go and i'd probably get carpal tunnel.</p>
<p>i started this thread to get an idea of some of the negative points of being a stanford student. and it still seems like there are none. (while palo alto may not be nyc or boston, i dont think it matters a whole lot) stanford is at the top of my list, and i dont want to be heartbroken if i dont get in (the statistics are against me). also, i am on the east coast, so visiting is almost out of the question unless i get in, so i need an idea of what the college is like. i guess this failed because stanford is that sweet :)</p>
<p>I would like to see more specifics about what's good about Stanford, so I'll open a new thread. I'd love to hear from current and recent Stanford students there.</p>
<p>Pros: All-around Academic Strengths</p>
<p>Stanford is probably the best school for tech-oriented students who also want to explore a softer side of Liberal arts/Hums. Also, S has best professional schools including Business, Law, and great graduate schools for almost any major.</p>
<p>Medicine: H over S
Law: You Pick (Best 3)
Business: You Pick (Best 4)
Engineering: S hands down
Humanities: You Pick
Social Science: You Pick
Soft Science: You Pick</p>
<p>Out of YPSM, only S is well in position to take down the big-bad H as the #1 school in very near future.</p>
<p>Cons: Location (surburban)</p>
<p>Just so you and others know, the liberal arts includes the sciences and mathematics.</p>
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Engineering: S hands down
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<p>It's true, but it's nice to have all of MIT's resources (which one does as a Harvard student), and the department isn't poor, merely just behind the best 20 or so.</p>
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Soft Science: You Pick
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<p>What are the soft sciences, exactly?</p>
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Humanities: You Pick
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<p>I thinkt he trend would be in Harvard's favor.</p>
<p>Are chemistry and physics soft sciences? Engineering? Or just not on the list? </p>
<p>Also, if you're choosing between schools that are in the top 5 or so in the field you want to study as an undergraduate the school's ranking in that field really shouldn't be a factor in your decision at all. If there is a particular prof you really want to study with or do research with or if there are research/job opportunities that are unique to one school that might be an acceptable factor in your decision. As an undergraduate it is unlikely that you would notice the difference in a school that is #1 or #2, or probably even #1 to #5 or #10 or possibly #20. The overall atmosphere of the school will make a much bigger impact on you overall experience. You've probably heard that a million times and once you get to college you will see how true it is and why everyone keeps repeating it.</p>
<p>As a rising junior (I think I'm the oldest Stanford undergrad on this thread- oh god what am i doing here) and future RA in the biggest all-frosh dorm, I may be one of the biggest supporters of Stanford life... </p>
<p>I can say that location has never once bothered me. If anything, the less-than-thrilling Palo Alto setting (and I grew up in Palo Alto, so I know it all too well) allows Stanford something you can't get at Harvard, and that's the community akin to that of the small LAC, except you're not sick of everyone after three years. </p>
<p>For me, Stanford's absolute biggest pro is its size. You cannot cross campus without seeing someone you know, but you'll never know everyone. There are huge opportunities for finding community even outside the dorm... IHUM may suck, but the likelyhood is you'll come out with a friend or three, if you're really lucky your IHUM section will have reunion parties and play beirut... and all of the small seminars are really wonderful communities because everyone's really passionate about the subject. And because you cross paths with people all of the time, it's possible to keep in touch with everyone from freshman year onwards. And maybe that girl with the nose ring you see everywhere will turn out to be your frosh roommate's cousin and then you'll room with her sophomore year (ok, that actually happened to me... which was really odd).</p>
<p>Another great thing about Stanford is because everyone's on campus most of the time, the extracurricular communities are amazing. I live for my theatre group, and a cappella groups and club sports teams etc etc all tend to have the same tight-knit atmosphere. </p>
<p>Also, if you have a car the world doesn't seem so far away. I know it's there, when I feel like going, and I will often find a buddy to go grab a late night snack with in Mountain View, and my friends and I made it up to the city three times last quarter (to see a gypsy punk band and two Broadway-caliber shows). </p>
<p>After thinking about it for the last half-hour, my least favorite thing about Stanford is the political bubble. People are a lot more apathetic here then I'd hoped. But when they decide to take action, like when Bush came to campus... that was one of the most amazing afternoons I've ever experienced. </p>
<p>Stanford rant over... now I can't wait to go back to school.</p>
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gypsy punk band
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<p>Gogol Bordello?!?!</p>
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Also, if you have a car the world doesn't seem so far away. I know it's there, when I feel like going, and I will often find a buddy to go grab a late night snack with in Mountain View
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<p>If Mountain View counts as the world, you've been at the farm far too long! :p</p>
<p>soft science- geology, biology, chemistry, zoology, botany, majors that dont require too much math :eek:</p>
<p>hard sceince- math-intensive majors like physics, bio-physics, astro-physics, classical physics, modern physics, comp science</p>
<p>Humnanities: classics, english, foreign languages, histories, comparative literatures, philosphy, women's study</p>
<p>Social science: economics, psychology, poltics, sociology, etc</p>
<p>Engineering- ME AE ChemE EE CE Nuclear Industrial</p>
<p>:rolleyes:</p>
<p>Palo Alto/Mt. View is hella boring, however, i enjoyed many ethnic foods there (indian, thai, viet..) But SO-KAL Pho's (especially the ones at Long Beach) are much better than No-KALs</p>
<p>History and philosophy kinda wiggle between humanities and social sciences. But really, why are scientists so interested in hierarchies?</p>
<p>"I thinkt he trend would be in Harvard's favor"</p>
<p>O really? I think not. S has as strong humanities/social science depts as Harvard. Quite impressive for a school known for the strong science/eng programs. If my memory doesnt fail me this time, only program in which H is better than S is medical school. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Saying that the trend would go in Harvard's favor doesn't say anything negative about the strenght of the programs at Stanford. But your memory does fail you . . . in many graduate fields, students would rather be at Harvard than Stanford. That is not to say that the reverse is true at Stanford as well, but again, basically all we're saying is that both schools are very strong in many disciplines. How about business schools- Harvard is the winner there. Look at the cross-admits for undergraduates as well.</p>
<p>DRab cross admits go both ways. Look at engineering students that got accepted to both schools. I'm pretty sure that most went to Stanford.
But Yeah I agree with you both Stanford and Harvard are very strong in many disciplines.</p>