Pros/cons on OOS Flagships: Michigan, Wisconsin, Vermont, and Oregon Honors College

College Search & Selection
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Looking to pass the time while we wait for more decisions for my D22. She was admitted to a few OOS flagships during the EA cycle (Michigan, Wisconsin, Vermont and Oregon) and while Michigan is currently her favorite, there’s plenty to like about each of them.

I would love to hear pros and cons from parents or students at these schools. The only one we have been able to visit is University of Oregon (in the summer during Covid, so it was empty but still lovely). She was admitted to Clark Honors College at UO.

A little background: We live in the bay area in CA. My daughter applied as a Political Science major but also has an interest in English/Writing/Communications. She’s into her student newspaper, music, theater, reading fiction, and community service (educational equity and antiracism are two topics where she has spent most of her time). She is not interested in athletics or Greek life, but she likes the idea of going to a football game with her friends every so often (she won’t be a huge fan–we don’t watch sports a family, not even the Super Bowl).

She likes campuses that are contained and walkable to cute college towns and she loves to see live music and go to movies. She’s more hippie than preppy, and has an appreciation for both urban settings and outdoor life. She’s not a partier but I don’t think she’s opposed.

All 4 of these colleges seem to more than fit the bill. So, if you or your child have experiences with any of them – from food to favorite dorms to transportation hurdles to covid protocols to administrative … we would love to hear it.

A note on merit – she’s received the 10k Summit scholarship at Oregon and the 18k Presidential scholarship at Vermont. Nothing from Wisconsin and Michigan. (We do not qualify for aid and we are not chasing merit–it’s really nice but not the main driver of the decision.)

Thank you!

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While I have opinion, I haven’t had a child at any of them. Obviously, U Michigan has the rep and watching a football game at the Big House has to be insane.

UVM is smallest by far followed by Oregon (which I’ve been to, is lovely). UVM also will have great access to skiing - although East coast skiing. At Oregon, it’s further. If size matters, that could tilt it one way or another.

Niche rates UM at B+ for dorms and A for food, Wisconsin a B for dorms and A for food, Oregon a B for dorm and A+ for food, and UVM a B-/B-.

I’m glad you are seeking the “best” school - as most would choose Michigan as it’s most reputed and you know how people get here.

Four great college towns!!! Congrats to your daughter - wonderful choices and obviously a wonderful student.

Good luck to her. I look forward to reading other comments and to see what she decides.

Will you have a chance to visit the other three?

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We have had two family members attend Oregon in recent years.

One was more “hippie,” did not do Greek life, majored in Psychology. The other was more sporty, joined a fraternity, majored in Accounting.

Both really loved their experience. Both developed lifelong friends (and one spouse) and readily found internships in their fields. Both chose to get a master’s degree at Oregon. As good but not the most tippy-top students, both earned departmental scholarships also.

The “hippie” student spent a lot of free time doing bike rides and hikes and trips to the ocean. The sporty one attended more games and tailgate parties. Both seemed to have friends in and out of the Greek system, in a wide range of majors, and involved in everything from cheerleading to club sports to art to campus activism to admissions ambassadorships.

Both stayed in dorms that seemed small as first-years — don’t remember which ones. They liked the dining hall food and gym access; dorm rooms were just okay.

We visited ourselves in October and were impressed with the new welcome center and tour. We also walked from campus with hordes of student revelers to see the football game. It was great energy.

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I was going to write that UVM can be expensive out of state unless you get the presidential merit scholarship. However, you did get it so that problem is gone. Maintaining a 3.0 GPA (needed to keep the merit scholarship after the first year) should not be too difficult, although you might want to make sure that you know what you will do if this doesn’t happen.

UVM, Michigan, and Wisconsin will all have real winters. You will need appropriate winter clothing at any of them. This might be easier to purchase on site rather than in California.

UVM does have an attractive campus and is walkable to a cute college town. Burlington Vermont is a nice small city. I like it quite a bit. They card very aggressively in Burlington. Three of the last four times that I have been carded (with a long gray beard and obviously old enough to either the father or grandfather of the person carding me) were in Burlington. Hockey is bigger than football at UVM. Montreal is only two hours away but I do not think that students think to go up there very often (even before COVID).

I have only visited Michigan once and it happened to be during what was on track to be the coldest December on record so we did not walk around much. It also seemed like an attractive campus in a nice college “small city”.

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I have a daughter at Michigan and a close friend has a freshman at UVM.

Ann Arbor and UM bleed into each other. I would not say there is a contained campus with a cute college town, but a small city with a campus within it. We love it, but we love more urban schools. There is a lot of green space there, though, so no one would feel like they were trapped in a city.

The dorms are, for the most part, average. The school is actually on two campuses: Central, which contains most of the LSA buildings where your daughter would have classes, the law quad (prettiest buildings, IMO), Ross (business school), Ford School, etc.; and North, which holds both the engineering and fine arts schools. MANY freshman end up in dorms on North and classes on Central, which means that they need to take a bus to and from. Parents of older kids swear that this is fine and that they make great friends in the (somewhat) isolated North dorms, but every year the freshman parents whose kids were placed there freak out.

Another thing to know about housing at Michigan is that it is only guaranteed for freshmen. Most sophomores move off campus, into houses, apartments, or Greek housing. It was overwhelming for me when I toured with my 17-year-old to think of her looking for housing very soon after arriving as a freshman, but that’s what happens.

I wouldn’t call Michigan hippy-ish in any way overall, but it’s such a large school that I do think she would find like-minded people easily.

UM has no journalism program and its student newspaper is considered to be independent of the university. If journalism is a path she is considering, she would need to make sure that she can cobble together the skills she wants at UM. I think she can, but wanted to make sure she was aware.

I know much less about UVM, but I will say that my friend’s daughter IS very much hippy-ish, into environmental issues, and absolutely loves UVM. From your description of your daughter and my experience with UM and limited knowledge of UWM and UVM, I would guess that UVM is the best culture fit for her. The trek from California to UVM would be arduous, though, so it would certainly be a consideration and a con for me.

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I’ve visited Michigan, UVM and Wisconsin. All three are winners in my mind. If your daughter wants to learn to ski and enjoy other snowy winter sports, I think UVM would be the winner. But Michigan is wonderful….and has the second best marching band in the country. Wisconsin is also great.

All three are college town colleges.

Congratulations to her!

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Based on the content of your post, I would rank UVM, Oregon, & Wisconsin as the best matches,yet your daughter’s favorite is Michigan.

Michigan is not “contained and walkable to [a] cute college town”. The University of Vermont best fits that description among her four options as well as the presence of a hippie culture.

While all are great options, the University of Vermont should be given serious consideration based on her likes & interests.

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My older son just graduated (a semester early) from UVM and my younger son has been accepted, but is still waiting to see where else he gets in (he actually got deferred at Michigan). It’s a really good school (better than it’s reputation I believe) and my son had a great academic experience and made some great friends. Burlington is a really wonderful town with great restaurants and shops (Church Street Marketplace) and the campus is walking distance to both the town and the lakefront park. My husband and younger son met Bernie Sanders while on a bike ride in the park! If my younger son does not attend, I will truly miss our visits there. Skiing is accessible by car and bus (although the college buses tend to fill up) and in the warm weather there is a beautiful lakefront beach, North Beach a very short drive away. My son’s major complaint is that it is too cold in the winter! Students are pretty hippyish and liberal, although there are all types. There is no football team, but hockey and basketball are big. It has a reputation as a party school, but plenty do not partake (or so I hear). Dorms are based on learning communities and there is one community, the Wellness Community which is adamently substance-free. On-campus housing is guaranteed and required for Freshmen and Sophomores. Most kids get off-campus apartments after that, although it is possible to remain in the dorms if there is room. The Res-life (Residential Life) department is actually the weakest link and there are always lots of complaints although my son was lucky with his roommate selection.

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Just Go Blue! There is no better college town.

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No firsthand knowledge, but I do know a Bay Area kid at UVM and I understand she loves it there. But it is so far away that she can’t come home for the “minor” breaks, ie, Thanksgiving and Spring Break. That doesn’t seem to bother her though! My D22 has applied there as well.

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getting to UVM from SF is going to be a pain. 5 hour flight to Boston, losing 3 hours in the time zone changes, then somehow getting to Burlington from Boston (bus, van, car) another few hours. Hard for her, unlikely you’ll visit often.

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hmmm - you can fly to Burlington - and it’s not hard. - and you needn’t go through Boston.

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Wisconsin is about 1 mile from the State Capital. Madison is a liberal city with lots of arts options. The Madison Farmers Market on Saturdays is very popular. Madison is right on a couple of lakes. There are ski hills (not mountains) about 40 minutes away.

Both Michigan and Wisconsin will have the “Midwest nice” charm with 4 seasons. I don’t know the hard data but I feel Michigan and Wisconsin get more name recognition.

I’ve heard great things about UO though too. I don’t think theres a wrong choice here so I know that makes it more difficult.

Perhaps check out tripadvisor for things to do in each city and see what is highlighted for each town.

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I doubt there is a direct flight from SF to Burlington. If there is, then I apologize.

My sister went to Middlebury for one year. We lived in Central Wisconsin, so that meant flying to Chicago (not direct, but with about 4 stops bopping around the state), then Chicago to Boston, then getting from Boston to Middlebury. Took a L O N G time, and she only did it twice, once in September, then home for Christmas, then back. It was not easy.

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I think people fly into Montreal actually.

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Be aware that the racial mix / environment in each of these schools / states can be quite different from each other and where you currently live. If she goes to any of these schools / states, she may need to take some time to understand local conditions rather than assume that things are the same as where she grew up.

For example, many parts of where you live are majority-minority areas, as are most of the state universities in California. But University of Vermont is 82% White and the state of Vermont is 93% White, so the nature of racism and antiracism may be somewhat different. If she is a member of a visible minority group, it may be a change of perspective going from a place where she may not stand out much just by being to a place where she does.

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Yes, and there are cheap buses for the 2.5 hour ride from Montreal to Burlington.

However, since Montreal is in Canada, that would require the usual border crossing logistics (twice – once for Canada and once for the US), which could be more of a hassle if there are additional COVID-19-related restrictions.

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Yes, I agree it’s not easy getting from the West Coast to Burlington, no matter how you do it! If my D is accepted there it will be a major consideration.

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Didn’t say direct- but you can stop in Denver, Chicago, DC- wherever etc. And you don’t need to bus 3 hours from Boston (which is 3 hr 30 by car).

7:24 from SFO to Burlington via Dulles

You can also take Southwest to Albany - but that’s a 3 hour drive - a bit closer than Boston.

Transport should be a consideration I agree - but if one will truly love a place, does that override the few trips? You certainly have less flexibility to adapt - for example, my daughter had a coping issue early and I had to fly her home - which would be near impossible from UVM to the Bay Area…these are the things you hope not to happen but could.

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You all raise great points regarding travel. Some basic research on United (on which I have status and a lot of miles b/c of my work travel) shows that she can get to BTV (Burlington) in about 8-9 hours total travel time with 1 stop in either O’Hare or Dulles. Newark is an option too. This is not terribly different from getting to Madison, though all of those stops are through O’Hare and about 6 hours total travel time. Even Detroit requires a stop if we plan to stick with United for miles, but if she chooses Michigan, Delta flies direct.

So, while I appreciate the long travel day to Burlington, I think it can be accomplished without a 2 hour bus or train ride or flying to Canada.

I love all the UVM stories here! She was a little bummed not to receive an invite to their honors program–perhaps something to follow up on it comes down to the final few.

Her immediate desire for UMichigan is both a reaction to the name brand and selectivity, as well as a specific major (Politics, Philosophy, Economics) that UMichigan offers (and the others are just Political Science). She also really values the alumni connectivity at UMichigan (a beloved teacher is a Michigan alum and he decorates his classroom with banners and talks about it fairly often… I believe he may be single-handedly responsible for sending a dozen kids from our Bay Area high school to UMichigan every year!)

My push now is to help her get past name brand and really think about the experience she wants for the next 4 years. And maybe that is Michigan, or maybe that’s one of these other really super options.

I think she would really value being in Madison–a state capital–for internships purposes. And Vermont really does fit her vibe culturally. And Oregon’s Honors College and journalism program (she would minor in that, not major) is also compelling. It’s going to be a really hard decision … and I think we are going to need to go visit each of them over long weekends here and there and see where she really connects.

…And she is not an under-represented minority, but thank you for bringing it up. In fact, we live in a community that easily 80+ percent white. A lot of her work on the topic of equity has been starting an antiracism book club in her high school to help ground fellow students in the language and facts of social justice and antiracism, as well as sitting on our county’s youth commission to represent a cross section of views on issues affecting young people in our county. And she also writes about these issues for her school paper, purposely bringing in underrepresented voices as sources for her stories.

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