I have a Ph.D. and had funding support while in grad school. I’ve had PsyD students work for me and most were bright and generally well trained, but, in addition to the massive loans they are taking on which will be very difficult to pay off, especially with the trends in healthcare, the bigger concern IMO is the competitiveness for decent internships. Internships are harder and harder to get, and as juillet said, its highly advised to get an APA approved internship. APIC approved internships are ok, but not as desired as an APA internship, and unless things have changed, some employers, like the VA, will not consider applicants who come out of APIC internships. Some state licensure requirements state APA internships or otherwise additional requirements and documentation are required to assure the internship is acceptable.
APA approved grad programs are very competitive, and many wanted to see students have research experience and/or clinical experience before they will be accepted into grad program. And I have to agree that the GPA should e stronger. She’ll want a strong GRE as well. ITs a painful dose of reality.
3.4 cumulative GPA is exceedingly low for med school applications even with a high MCAT score. It’s exceedingly competitive even with folks with 3.75-3.9 GPAs in pre-med concentrations from schools like Berkeley with the requisite MCAT scores and hospital volunteering/research experience.
Its a non-issue since she isnt interested in med school. That said, 3.4 is, unfortunately too low for the very competitive APA approved Ph.D. Clinical Psych programs, and she will have to be very careful to vet the good from the not so good Psy.D. programs.
Out of curiosity, could the lowish GPA be overridden with strong LORs from undergrad Psych Profs who worked with the student on undergrad research and a co-authored publication or few?
Very doubtful. Most good programs want very strong GPAs, research and/or clinical experience and very strong recommendations from faculty/ It is harder to get into Clinical Psych grad school than med school, IMO.
PsyD programs are not as difficult to get into, but do not have any funding for students since they are not research institutions, and may students are left with large debt that it impossible to pay off. There are good PsyD programs and not-so-good ones. Please have her look CAREFULLY.
Thanks for the info. I have been concerned that her GPA is low for a funded PhD program. There is still time for her to try to improve it, but I don’t think that a huge jump is likely.
I will encourage her to try to get some psychology related volunteer experience this summer, to get a better sense of if she is really interested in what a clinical psychologist really does.
What other types of career paths do psychology majors typically follow, if she ends up deciding against a PsyD?
If you are purely interested in clinical work, and do not want to go the PhD route, I’d strongly recommend looking into a social work, MSW, degree. Licensed clinical social workers can practice as independently as psychologists, and are eligible to be providers for most insurance companies–at similar reimbursement rates.
Financial aid is as limited as that for PsyD programs but the coursework is usually only two years, and your clinicial experience requirement can be paid employment. Many social work programs are structured so you can hold a job while you study. Fordham, for example, schedules its classes on weekends. I know a couple of people who held down full-time jobs while doing the coursework. Smith has its classes during the summer.
Graduating with a BSW, can reduce the amount of time for MSW course and experiential work.
And down the road, you can get a DSW, if you feel the need for a doctorate.
I’m a psychologist who sees no association between degree and clinical competence.
There’s not much differentiation any more by third party payers between doctorate and masters level practitioners (MSW) as Latichever mentioned but significant difference in the amount of time needed before independent practice. I would strongly caution against a Masters degree in Psychology since in most states there’s no way to psychology licensure or independent practice without a Doctorate.
There also seem to be increasing numbers of specialties in psychology needing post doc training for competence - long, long training for highly competitive job market and relatively little money.
The MSW and licensure as a clinical social worker (LCSW) is a good idea, @latichever. If the goal is to get into clinical work and therapy, that might be the better (and cheaper) route. I have a couple of friends who are LCSWs and learned from them that the majority of clinical mental health workers are actually social workers.
YES. Research experience (especially a publication, but not necessary) and glowing letters of recommendation could work to overcome a lowish GPA, as could an excellent fit with the department. Also, a high major GPA could offset a lowish GPA. (My own GPA was a 3.42 when applying to social psych programs, but I had a major GPA of around 3.6.) The average GPA at clinical psychology programs seems to be around 3.6, with some of the top programs having averages closer to 3.7-3.8.
Another thing, OP, is that there are many clinical psychology programs that emphasize a scientist-practitioner model (as opposed to more clinical science). While students are expected to do research, they do the research so that they learn to be educated consumers of clinical science and so that they learn to integrate the best new research and innovations into their practice. Many PhDs from clinical psychology programs (especially the good, but lower-ranked, programs) leave to become clinicians and never really conduct research again. So even if your daughter has no interest in a research career, if she can at least do it and see the value of it to her career that it brings, then a funded PhD program could be an option.
She also might be interested in counseling psychology PhD programs, which are less competitive but lead to the same kind of licensure as clinical programs.
Agree with juillet that for counseling psych or ed psych or social psych (etc) grad programs, the competition may be less fierce, and the ancillary variables can carry additional weight, but I think, based on what colleagues who are clinical psych faculty and/or dept chair colleagues have shared, there is a first read of the applications, and the strong GPA and GRE scores will be important. There are always other variables that come into play, such as an applicant’s experience or interest in research areas being conducted at the program the student is applying to, alignment with the philosophy of the program, , familiarity of faculty with the person(s) writing the letters of recc, etc. But the top clinical psych programs are fiercely competitive, and a comparatively “low” GPA may be hard to overcome.
Oh, I’m not saying that it won’t be difficult. I’m simply saying that it is, indeed, possible to get into a clinical psych program with a lowish GPA if one has an otherwise outstanding application. (And then again, that is if by “lowish” we mean a 3.4-3.5. I think anything below that range makes it more in the range of improbable.)
I’d note that you can become a licensed psychologist in some states with a D.Ed. (Doctor of Education degree) with appropriate concentrations. But I’m not sure you can do this in every state, so check where you want to go to school, and live and work.
For a garden variety clinician, I don’t think post-doctoral training enhances reimbursability. Sure, you can spend years and a fortune in becoming a psychoanalyst, but that won’t directly increase your income–you will still get the same reimbursement from an insurer. You may benefit financially because of a strong referral network. You may tap into affluent clients who can pay out of pocket.
Some post-doctoral routes do increase your career viability. Neuropsychology–assessing the effects of brain functioning on behavior and emotions–might be worth it. They are highly in demand. I looked into it, but I was tired of school at that point.