<p>Agreed. Without tracking, it’s impossible to challenge the gifted. I don’t understand the thought that putting everyone together in the same classroom improves everyone’s experience. Maybe it could if teachers had the freedom to discipline the knuckleheads, but teachers have lost the freedom to impose order on the classroom. I don’t understand why allowing the lazy and defiant disrupt everyone else’s classroom experience is considered an improvement .</p>
<p>(Please note, for me, “knucklehead” means a kid who could easily to the work, but chooses to disrupt class instead. It does not mean special ed students, many of whom are very hard workers.)</p>
<p>Periwinkle-discipline in the classroom always gives me flashbacks to my parochial school days, no one dared disrupt the classroom for fear of a visit to the principals office at the end of the day where you were paddled. </p>
<p>Exie-I bet you had committed parents who worked with the committed teachers. Good students start in homes where education is taken seriously. Parental responsibility and involvement is one component teachers have zero control over, but can have a larger impact than money or class size.</p>
<p>Yep - parenting is the key. We had them, our job to raise them then set them free - even if it means the intervention is to eat rice cakes and ramen so we can put them in schools that see them as individuals with potential - not just sources of state and local revenue.</p>
<p>Our school system tried something different in the elem years. Years 1 - 3 and 4 - 6 were put together in the same class room. Then the kids that progressed fast were put together and those that did slow were. Worked great</p>
<p>Periwinkle, in our district (plagued by shrinking enrollment, teaching to the test, etc.) we have ample tracking at the high school level. The trouble is that it’s a high end HS and parents demand that their gifted children be in the honors classes. My daughter’s honors math class has 37 kids, most of whom don’t do their homework and the teacher gives them 90 minutes before the test - of class time - to prepare. So the honors classes get watered down by lazy privileged kids. When I taught middle school elsewhere we switched the “honors” program to a “challenge” program where kids had to self-select, sign a contract and meet program requirements. Test scores were negotiable - it was motivation that mattered and it worked. The curriculum remained rigorous. The attack on mixed grouping is a dangerous one because in some cases it is beneficial to all. There needs to be curriculum that is a choice not a right.</p>
<p>We have just returned from our bs revisits and had lots time to talk to my d about her current vs next year situation.</p>
<p>I found out that the teacher constantly calls on the 5 students that are “engaged” in the lesson, (where engaged means-during the homework and not acting out). She nicely asked him why and then asked her to stop “picking” her.</p>
<p>I then found out that my d is constantly placed with the “slower” kids to help them. Ok…not a bad idea all the time but as my d put it" it is not my job to teach my fellow students—that is what the teacher is being paid for". She much rather be challenged and work/study to better herself. I agree.</p>
<p>It might sound somewhat mean but she wants an education, not a tutoring job and her growth not attended to.</p>
<p>We are counting down the months to sept 10, when she is scheduled to be on DA’s campus.—lol.</p>
<p>When my daughter was accepted to boarding school, it was the same day the local school board voted to close schools - a lot of them - to save money (while increasing the salaries of its own staff and promising “bonuses”.)</p>
<p>I announced on my FB page that I was “free at last, free at last” and glad to be out of district that “craved dysfunction like a insatiable crack addict using kids as its only source of an elusive high.”</p>
<p>The fall can’t get here soon enough. I she could, I’m betting my daughter would start packing now. (Me though, I’m not in a hurry - I’m going to cherish these next few months of hugs and laughs to tide me over during her absence.)</p>
<p>Isn’t it sad that we have to send our kids away so that they can get a decent education? My oldest daughter is heading to a public boarding school for gifted youth in the fall. In a class of 700 students at our local high school, maybe 10% are motivated students. There is an IB program but it only graduates about 10 students per year. I hate to lose her but I can’t stand for her to be around such unmotivated students.</p>
<p>We applied to a highly gifted magnet designed for students testing at the 99.9th %. Several years ago the school had to begin admitting kids with lower test scores because they couldn’t fill all the slots. Yesterday I learned we were waitlisted in favor of students with lower test scores because my child is the wrong “color.” I can’t get out of the public school system fast enough!</p>
<p>My children have state tests coming up. They have even less relevance for my son this year than they have in previous years. What’s really silly is that my daughter has to take the 8th grade English test even though she is in 9th grade English class and is supposed to be in 7th grade. My son has to take the 8th grade Math test AND the 8th grade English test even though he is in 10th grade math and doesn’t even take English at the school. If they try to make them stay after school for “review” sessions I’m gonna throw a fit. They could turn in perfect exams and it wouldn’t have any bearing on the education they receive at all…so what’s the point? I told the principal that if they want the kids to try hard and take the tests seriously, give each kid who passes “with mastery” 50 bucks. It’ll be cheaper and more effective than extra stipends for the teachers to hold “review sessions.”</p>
<p>As more and more kids flee the public schools, the school’s test scores will continue to plummet and they’ll get more money and special services.</p>
<p>I know you meant well, but I’m a little sore about all this whining about people not getting something because they are the wrong “color” Public schools are paid for with public dollars and I can tell you there may be a lot more going on behind the scenes than you are privy to.</p>
<p>So bashing some other person’s kid for a perceived advantage is in poor taste, IMHO. It’s old and tiring.</p>
<p>Issue here in my district is the consistent sabotaging of “gifted” education because the focus is on kids who are behind academically. Hence the gifted teachers are fed up and it’s leading to an exodus of gifted kids.</p>
<p>I’m saying there is a school that was created for highly gifted population based on a nonverbal IQ test chosen by the district to verify eligibility. And when a qualified student is passed over in favor of a nonqualified student (information suppled to me by the magnet coordinator), that is patently unfair. What is the point of calling the school a highly gifted magnet? It is no longer.
But I certainly didn’t mean to bash anyone else’s kid. That wasn’t the point I was trying to make. I’m sorry if I offended anyone.</p>
<p>No offense taken - and thanks for that perspective.</p>
<p>Gifted children need to be tested on multiple scales, not one “nonverbal” scale because gifted can not be measured on a single test - nor can it be assumed a gifted child is “gifted” across all subject matters. Many gifted children don’t “perform” on cue or exhibit traits that might lead one to conclude they are not gifted (such as social interaction skills). Kids who are gifted can be tactile, auditory, kinestic, etc. learners (but not necessarily all of the above.)</p>
<p>The reason why experts determine “gifted” on multiple tests is some skills are learned and kids whose parents expose them to cultural events, books, and a broad range of experiences tend to test significantly higher.</p>
<p>There are tests that look for those things that can not be learned through social interaction (spacial relationships, etc…) Tests that look for ability to retain information under certain circumstances, or ability to synthesize information.</p>
<p>A school that uses a single metric is shooting itself in the foot. At least 2-3 tests are warranted. If someone told you that a child of “color” got in without the proper metric, I would question their motivation for telling you that information - especially if your own child was passed over.</p>
<p>But no offense taken. Here in my city, we had an unusual situation - a desegregation order required us to take white students whether they were qualified or not in order to maintain a ratio that was 25% white in the magnet schools. Without that balance, empty seats could not be filled by remaining students of color because it would tip the ratio unfavorably. What happened, as a result, was those children began receiving more favored treatment and more personalized attention in class (to keep them from fleeing the district), causing them to rise higher in terms of academic achievement than their counterparts.</p>
<p>I’m not a fan of social engineering. But I also recognize the IQ tests administered in schools tend to be slanted towards children raised in educated and/or suburban households.</p>
<p>Often - kids of “color” are more gifted than their test scores suggest but lacked the opportunity to demonstrate it. But I know that’s little consolation for parents trying to do right by their children.</p>
<p>As a parent of a “child of color”, thus being “of color”, (does that make sense-lol), I am in a unique situation for “slot filling”. For so long we had not that the chance to get into appropriate programs, and I am happy when the chances come along.</p>
<p>But never would I want to take or have my child take a slot that she was not suited for. I believe that there should be spots for URM, but only it the general requirements are met. It sets all those involved for a major let down when anyone is accepted that does not qualify. </p>
<p>I have heard parents and their kids whisper that my d got in because she is an URM, later to find out that she was one of the strongest in the program from their kids and they she more than most deserved to be there.</p>
<p>Trust me, most parents of URM research and re-research programs and consider a lot more than just prestige when making choices to send their kids into the so called “fire” of being one of the few. </p>
<p>It is not a easy decision and we dont make it lightly, especially when bs is the issue and we are not there in person to help sort it out and maybe wipe the tears.</p>
<p>And to elucidate further, the ratio is only minority vs. caucasian. The slots are predominantly filled with asian students in this particular magnet. So as far as spreading the academic opportunity to the community as a whole, I find it a huge failure.</p>
<p>You do know stuff like this drives people like me crazy, right?</p>
<p>I’m big on numbers so taking them in isolation is a problem - always has been. People choose the litmus test they want to use - often one that favors them - and conclude all sorts of things without analyzing other components. And having not seen the resumes of the students who DO get in, conclude that some group (whites complain they are victims, now Asians, and many others . . . )</p>
<ol>
<li><p>First - there is just not enough space for everyone. And it’s not ideal to be at a campus that is homogeneous in terms of culture, </p></li>
<li><p>The conclusion that those shut out are from poor immigrant families is also not in evidence. Ability to overcome adversity is a big deal versus a similar child who has been given every advantage.</p></li>
<li><p>A huge number of applicants I’ve reviewed have high test scores and non-distinct resumes. Remember - they’re competing against pools of applicants who have equally stellar ec’s - in some cases better because the student is more well-rounded. So when all things are equal - the nod might go to someone who has done something extraordinary OR to someone who has a more broad base of interests.</p></li>
<li><p>Applications from foreign students are on the rise - and from countries where test scores are valued above everything and are the deciding factor for getting into a top college there. Here, test scores are now a small component and a well rounded resume counts for more. So I’ve been the subject of much anger re: parents who believe affirmative action kept their perfect test score kid from securing a spot (likely it wasn’t a minority - but a rural kid who had to drive 2 hours a day to take an advanced class or complete their Eagle scout project)</p></li>
<li><p>Adcoms at colleges and BS have noted a predisposition for some “subsets” of students to skew the scores because of extensive prepping and use of “coaches”. That’s not the same as “learning”, “exploration”, higher order thinking or ability to synthesize data. I noted my daughter’s friend, when finished with homework, pulled out packets and drilled on basic math concepts for hours. Being a high testing kid and having skills in rote memorization is not the same as being an ideal student.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Which is why colleges and boarding schools are now emphasizing interviews, writing samples, and other application information.</p>
<p>For those of you chasing test scores - let me tell you - outside of a narrow set of schools, you are chasing the wrong dream. Be interesting. Stand out in a crowded field. BE BETTER than the competition to make a compelling case. Then be interesting in the interview. Make the Adcom unable to forget you.</p>
<p>It’s not quotas that is a major factor - but it may be cultural norms that create a pile of applications that - although very good - look very much the same because the applicants (regardless of color) are reading discussion boards and taking prep courses and then following the same “darn” script.</p>
<p>I think they said all the Jews were the same, too. </p>
<p>The saddest thing about the clumping of Asian Americans is that they are not culturally homogeneous. Students from families of Hindu Indians are not the same as those from Moslem Indians or Chinese atheists or Korean Daoists or Uzbek Moslems . . . and since they are American’s first, coming from a variety of regional cultures here, it’s especially offensive to hear “them” lumped. . . and trivialized as test scores.</p>