The EEOC laws have not yet been extended to National Merit and the like.
@albert69 I never saw any of your posts on that subject.
@blossom a company putting down a firm GPA is being silly. that’s their right to do, though. The idea that they might need more URMs, but the qualified URM applicant has a 3.2 instead of a 3.3 minimum, so they can’t hire him out of fear from the EEOC has just done it to themselves. They shouldn’t have put that down as a minimum. I guess they can pull the req, rewrite it, but it shouldn’t be there in the first place. Usually the req’ts are BROAD so that there’s enough leeway.
Do you want to fly on an airplane designed by engineers who didn’t do as well in their engineering courses as the folks who design planes for their competitor?
This is how life works in the real world. If United Technologies decides that the minimum gpa for aerospace engineers is 3.0, that’s related to what they observe in the workplace- that the kids with a 2.6 or whatever need too much supervision or don’t have what it takes to succeed. They meet their AA targets by recruiting Af Am kids who got 3.2 and 3.4 in their engineering classes, NOT by digging down to the kids with a C or C+ average. Why hire minority kids who start out destined to struggle if you can hire the kids who start out on the same footing as everyone else?
Doesn’t this make sense to you? Pratt and Whitney doesn’t have two tracks- one for the aerospace engineers who got 3.2’s and one for the aerospace engineers who got 2.6’s. There is a bar which a young person must clear to be considered. Not for every single job- but for some jobs.
The companies that I have worked for which have stated GPA minimums for certain roles didn’t sit around fearful of the EEOC. They established a floor- admittedly arbitrary- which said that below this point, we won’t consider your resume. You will likely find that roles that have a large safety/security/compliance/public accountability component establish the floor- it reflects a level of minimal competency and saves tons of time.
Why hire the chem major with a C minus average to develop new drugs when you can hire chem majors with A minus averages??? Why hire a young person who will be developing algorithms for air traffic control systems who couldn’t maintain a B average when you can hire one who could?
There’s often an expectation of a 3.0 (sometimes as low as 2.7 for engineers) GPA OR major GPA even if there’s no stipulation. And some jobs wants 3.75! :d
But it depends where the GPA comes from. If a job applicant has 3.75 in his/her upper level engineering classes, but a bunch of C’s from Freshman year while playing catch up, it’s not looked at the same way as having 3.75 in gen eds and 2.5 in upper-level engineering classes, that’s for sure 
Blossom, you hire people for a living, right? Don’t tell me you don’t make the distinction.
and wow we’ve veered off topic in a reallu unexpected direction!!
Yes, blossom, the company that my son in engineering works for has about a 30 person internship class every summer Many of those kids get offers for full time employment after graduation . They do a lot of sensitive work, my son’s full time employment offer was contingent on getting a top secret clearance. He got his internship because he was a top student in his department (well above their 3.3 minimum to be considered for an internship). They have an initial GPA screen and also told his department they only wanted them to send their “best and brightest” to them for interviews. I don’t know how typical that is but it certainly can’t hurt to be sure to do well in your courses, regardless of what school you go to. Some companies clearly care about GPA’s more than others. My other engineering son could not get an interview with Bain (his friend a year older who worked there had recommended him) because they had a firm 3.7 GPA minimum at the time (and he had a 3.6 something at the time). Companies probably do miss some great kids because of arbitrary GPA requirements, but seems like they have a right to set whatever guidelines they like.
I think Bain also requires the students to submit there SAT scores…
DD was looking at summer internship job postings last week and a few of them had gpa requirements. The highest I saw was a 3.7.
When our son graduated from college (neither of the mentioned schools), only kids with coop experience and GPAs above a 3.5 were offered jobs. Our ds had multiple job offers. He had a friend with a higher GPA and no coop experience who could not get company interested in him.
A friend who graduated in Industrial Engineering from Ga Tech got her first job opportunity because of a project she worked on at school which related to the job opening. H (who graduated from Milwaukee School of Engineering) got an early senior job offer because of specific course work in test engineering - which the job slot was in. He even got offered more money ($50/mo higher starting salary) than a class mate with a much higher GPA (the company matched the salary for the other guy, but it really wasn’t a company oversight). Obviously both of these examples, the interviewer felt confident these two/three could do the job and do well with the company.
Gaining valuable experience helps an employer ‘take a chance’ on a student. If a student has co-oped, their co-op company may offer them a significantly better package.
In a tight job market, you have to give yourself an edge.
Junior and senior level engineering, CS, physics, etc courses are more difficult. Some students by that time want a ‘break’ and gaining some co-op experience helps them see how the coursework applies and it gives them the ‘umph’ to finish school. I see a number of students dragging out their senior year, often a fifth year and then some. One friend’s son has 3 1/2 years done at Ga Tech and has delayed doing his last semester coursework.
For OOS inquiries, there are new Shelby buildings also at AU, UAH, UAB, and one being built at University of South Alabama. Senator Shelby is the senior senator, first elected in 1986; married since 1960, his wife is a scholar, PhD, was a tenured professor at Georgetown. So the two of them together have a vision for helping higher ed with facilities, helping guide our federal dollars to benefit citizens. Better than a bridge to no-where 
All these schools are in my ‘top tier’ for in-state schools - depending what you are studying and student fit considerations/preferences. UA is the state flagship, with UA and AU historically being ‘the big schools’.
@blossom
Sometimes the “devil is in the details”.
Using GPA as a strict first-round down-select filter is stupid.
There are people (especially boys) who start college, do “so, so”, and then maybe flunk out, leave for awhile, work or go into the military, then “grow up,” return to school and they then get great grades. Their overall GPA may still be sub 3.0…but to suggest that they aren’t qualified to help build an aircraft because a company can’t determine if they’re just as qualified as the 22 year old who got As and Bs all the way thru…is just terribly naive.
Mom- it may be naive but when a company gets 12,000 resumes a year for 35 rotational spots (and the ratio is worse during a recession when the number of applicants increase and the number of spots decreases) how else to cut the pie in a cost-effective way? What exactly are you suggesting here as a practical matter- give an interview to all 12,000 so a company can hear everyone’s personal narrative before selecting the folks who go on to round 2?
And correction- these are people DESIGNING an aircraft, not building an aircraft. The credentials for roles in manufacturing and production are usually different.
^^^I guess there’s no room for “holistic admissions” in the real world!
[QUOTE=""]
these are people DESIGNING an aircraft,
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Yes, I KNOW that. I just used the word “build” but of course I meant the engineers who design.
Obviously, I wasn’t talking about factory workers.
8-|
Hey, don’t be dissing factory workers. I drive around in a car that was built by people who better know their stuff. Those people often have more common sense in their welding pinkie than the doctors that drive their cars.
(edit: I’m not a doctor, and my family has collars of every color).
@motherofdragons lol not dissing factory workers. But we know that factory workers aren’t generally hired based on college transcripts/GPA.
From a future career standpoint, I think it would be worth $40k to have your engineering degree from Purdue. I say this as an Engineer and as a parent who would happily send DD to Alabama with that scholarship.
I concur. The cost difference isn’t big while Purdue engineering would have a more national reputation. I say let the kid decide.
But if a kid’s family is pursuing merit at Alabama, they may very well think that $40,000 plus makes a big difference to the family. Our kids went to their state schools at full pay. We did not have them look either voluntarily at merit aid schools or require them to look for merit aid, We were prepared to pay instate costs and they knew that. If a kid is looking for full merit aid at Alabama, there could be or there is most likely a personal or financial reason , when they have an excellent instate option. And I do think a $40,000 difference is significant … But Purdue vs. an expensive private takes it in the other direction. Older kid was competitive for many top privates but he gravitated to ones with no merit (and this was just before all the better financial initiatives by many top schools). For us, instate tuition was a middle ground- not free but not $40 - $60,000 either. Every family has to make their own decisions about what money to offer their kids for college. ABET accreditation is the main key for undergrad and both Purdue and Alabama fit that bill. Recruiting is probably more national at Purdue but I would guess that a top student at Alabama would also have plenty of options .
For many families, the most cost-effective college option with the best student-school match which is easily within the family considered financial budget. Everyone has to weigh out pros and cons. Agree about the ABET accreditation. Also if that particular engineering degree has enough students in junior/senior courses to have a full enough curricula.
Some people do decide that a particular well known public or private college is worth the significant money difference, and they are willing/able to pay. That allows for the diversity in education in addition to various school endowments and financial resources.
If a student is a rising HS junior or HS senior, it is very beneficial to go to one of the one week summer programs UA, Purdue, and other schools offer which allow these students to explore the various engineering/CS curricula. My DD went to UA’s SITE program before her HS senior year, and was able to sort out her chosen engineering curricula - she decided civil engineering. That is a help in starting college with a little more confidence in the chosen degree path.
In my view, if a school like Purdue is in-state, and there is a option like Alabama more merit out there, the student can always take the Alabama scholarship and review year by year if there are significant reasons to transfer.
The first couple of years of college for most students is getting so many preparatory courses completed. Internship opportunities and cooperative education opportunities usually occur after the student has enough college curricula ‘under their belt’.
My DD is an engineering student at UA (Presidential and Engineering scholarship) - disclaimer, we are in-state AL. AU is historically considered ‘the engineering school’ with the wider reputation (UAHuntsville has had a reputation and presence from many years as well, although not as widely as AU) - however UA’s STEM programs have grown beautifully over the last 12 years of growth with faculty and facilities.
DD has interned OOS (via family connection on the intern opportunity). There are a lot more engineering jobs in AL than anyone OOS may even realize. DD’s coursework at UA is just as good as the other interns from other schools.
I use to work in a large cooperative education program with a school that had a lot of engineering co-ops, and career placement director’s office was next to mine. Worked with a lot of employers.
Key is for the student to be engaged in their college coursework (study and do well) and thinking about developing their skills and abilities. Take part in the career and job fairs that take place on campus, take advantage of learning all the things that prepare you to interview well, including dress and mannerisms and first impression. Be well rounded.
Just as colleges are seeking diversity, many large employers are seeking diversity. Some will do campus recruiting with large schools/programs, but they are seeking students who will be good employees. They look at what the student has to bring to the job. Small and mid-sized companies do a lot of hiring and provide a lot of entry level opportunities.
Some states have more job growth than others. Some years are better for engineering/CS hiring than other years.
IMHO, you need to read what is best for the current situation at hand - the education from start to finish of UG. During the college years, one prepares for the job market - be it internship or cooperative education (or other work experiences) first.
Take full advantage of what is available - just like a college doesn’t penalize applicants if the HS didn’t offer X AP or IB courses, an employer is going to look at what the student did from their college. Being the best that one can be will be rewarded - first internally, and then as opportunities evolve, externally.