Purdue vs USC

College Search & Selection
61

<p>Columbia_Student,</p>

<p>USC engineering is a big school with 3600 grad students. There got to be some great alums and students, regardless whethere it's a top-10/20 school or not. </p>

<p>Daniel</a> J. Epstein Department of Industrial and Systems Engineering: Faculty & Staff shows you in details how USC claims the NAE. And it's outrageous....</p>

<p>There are 2 NAE membes that are "Tenured, Tenure Track, and Full Time Teaching Faculty". This should be the number USC used from this department for US News. Instead, they counted those from Emeriti Faculty, Research Faculty and Adjunct Faculty for a total of 7. So 2 becomes 7....</p>

<p>As mentioned before, Wanda Austin is a president and CEO of a 4,000- employee company. She's hardly a full-time faculty member; I don't know if she actually does any research there at all. Malcom Currie is 81-yo. He's been an industry guy throughout his career and was on the board of trustee of USC. I have no idea how he's listed as "research faculty" either! </p>

<p>What's even more twisted is the following:
USC</a> - Viterbi School of Engineering - Faculty Awards

[quote]
The Viterbi School of Engineering is home to eight departments, 170 tenured and tenure-track faculty, and more than 5,000 students. There are over 40 endowed professorships at Viterbi, and 30% or more of our faculty have joint appointments in other departments or schools. Listed below is a summary of the achievements of our faculty.
...National Academy of Engineering 31...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But that 31 includes Emeriti Faculty, Research Faculty and Adjunct Faculty, and even people that has served/serve on Trustee Board and alums! The 170 doesn't include them! I was surprised by the extent they manipulated their data, not just for US News but for their general marketing.</p>

<p>I have no intention to bash USC. If you saw my posts, you can tell I always tried my best to give what I think correct info. I am not even talking about the actual quality of their graduate program. This is just about how their ranking in US News is based on false data. I am not here to screw anybody or any school.</p>

62

<p>Yeah that was my point. And keep in mind these guys went to USC 20-30 years ago when USC probably ranked in the top 100(not even top 30). They turned out just as succesful if not more, than other top 20-30 prestigious universities.</p>

63

<p>Sam, your research only showed the information you gathered is not reliable (considering the data regarding Stanford/MIT and the like). I don't have data at hand, so I can't draw a conclusion. However I do recall we don't have that many NAEs when I enrolled, and it didn't affect the excellence of the program here and not much on the ranking. The ISE department is building their program, and I am not sure how they handle the personnels. But hiring research faculty is common for big school, and it is benefiting students to form their guidance committee. Also, Purdue does similar thing. Search Gavriel Salvendy, he is on Purdue's NAE list, but he has been at Tsinghua University, Beijing for the last 7 years. I am sure there will be others, but let's not wast our time here. </p>

<p>For educational purpose, gd016 and techie, the NRC ranking is 12 (or 13) years old and your parents were students at least 20 years ago. Purdue was a top 5 engineering school even about 10 years ago, but how many will consider it top 5 today. As an international student myself, I can attest that Purdue was more attractive than USC even several years ago, but more and more people recognize the strength of USC Viterbi and choose to go this way. As I have witnessed, Purdue is not that attractive as a destination for new faculty like the schools in California either.</p>

64

<p>Here are the 2008/9 USNWR undergraduate engineering rankings:</p>

<p>Overall:
Engineering Programs
Ranked in </p>

<p>1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology Cambridge, MA 4.7927
2 Stanford University Stanford, CA 4.651
2 University of California--Berkeley Berkeley, CA 4.6615
4 California Institute of Technology Pasadena, CA 4.5134
4 Georgia Institute of Technology Atlanta, GA 4.5155
4 University of Illinois--Urbana-Champaign Champaign, IL 4.4503
7 University of Michigan--Ann Arbor Ann Arbor, MI 4.4032
8 Cornell University Ithaca, NY 4.2766
9 Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 4.1905
9 Purdue University--West Lafayette West Lafayette, IN 4.1875
11 Princeton University Princeton, NJ 4.0718
11 University of Texas--Austin Austin, TX 4.1459
13 University of Wisconsin--Madison Madison, WI 3.9663
14 Johns Hopkins University Baltimore, MD 3.8859
14 Northwestern University Evanston, IL 3.9231
14 Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 3.8715
17 Pennsylvania State University--University Park University Park, PA 3.828
17 Rice University Houston, TX 3.8047
17 Texas A&M University--College Station College Station, TX 3.8103
17 University of California--San Diego La Jolla, CA 3.7622
21 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Troy, NY 3.6868
21 University of California--Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA 3.68
21 University of Maryland--College Park College Park, MD 3.6798
21 University of Washington Seattle, WA 3.6784
25 Columbia University New York, NY 3.5833
25 Duke University Durham, NC 3.5866
25 University of Minnesota--Twin Cities Minneapolis, MN 3.6494
28 Harvard University Cambridge, MA 3.5091
28 North Carolina State University--Raleigh Raleigh, NC 3.5322
28 Ohio State University--Columbus Columbus, OH 3.4943
28 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 3.5029
28 University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 3.5466
28 University of Southern California Los Angeles, CA 3.497
28 University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA 3.4615 </p>

<p>Aerospace:
Purdue #4
USC #17</p>

<p>Agricultural:
Purdue #5
USC NR</p>

<p>Chemical:
Purdue #13
USC NR</p>

<p>Civil:
Purdue #7
USC #18</p>

<p>Computer:
Purdue #11
USC NR</p>

<p>Electrical:
Purdue #9
USC #19</p>

<p>Environmental:
Purdue #15
USC NR</p>

<p>Industrial:
Purdue #3
USC NR</p>

<p>Materials:
Purdue #13
USC NR</p>

<p>Mechanical:
Purdue #7
USC NR</p>

<p>Purdue engineering offers more breadth and depth than Viterbi.</p>

65

<p>QW553,</p>

<p>If you have the US News subscription, you'll see NAE membership is the most important criteria behind the two assessment scores and research spending. In fact, in the case of USC, it's the research spending <em>and</em> NAE membership that help to offset the two relatively low assessment scores. Research spending alone would not be enough to offset the two assessment scores to keep it in the top-10. Remember, we are talking about hugely inflated number, not by just 1 or 2 but by a lot (in the case of ISE, it's 2 vs 7--a 3-fold inflation). You can verify this by comparing to those that are ranked right behind USC. US News probably ranked over 300 schools; so the score is very tight among the top-20 or 30 schools. Any little advantage is gonna be magnified and it counts. I am not sure when you were there, but USC didn't jump to the top-10 until 2002, contrary to their website's claim that it "has consistently been ranked in the top-10". Also, its the EE that has the most (13), not ISE, and they count the NAE exactly the same way. So if USC were counting the same way back then, it's enjoying the same advantage just like today, except now it got even more help from the ISE.</p>

<p>USC probably isn't the only school that does that. I found that Maryland and UCLA sent US News higher numbers than what are given on NAE website. So, they are probably counting at least the emeritus ones, if not others. But I think counting people on trustee board and former students is beyond overboard, don't you think? On the other hand, schools like MIT, Stanford, Texas, Northwestern, Wisconsin gave much lower numbers (~50% less) than what are on the NAE website. That's a strong indication that these schools are counting only the ones that are actually full-time faculty even though I didn't go through them one by one carefully. </p>

<p>QW,
I am not saying USC program isn't good. In fact, I think it's very strong in system engineering and defense technology and the related fields such as electrial and computer sci, which have always been strong, are getting even stronger. It's also in a leading position in new areas like entertainment/media technology. But as far as I know, its civil, chemical, environmental, and mechanical aren't really benefiting from the recent development. They were weaker departments before and are probably still relatively weak when compared to other top schools.</p>

66

<p>
[quote]
Let's time I checked Purdue is a state school ranked somewhere in the late 60's with other state schools such as UConn

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is also a common viewpoint among USC students. Private schools must be better as a matter of principle.</p>

67

<p>
[quote]
For educational purpose, gd016 and techie, the NRC ranking is 12 (or 13) years old and your parents were students at least 20 years ago. Purdue was a top 5 engineering school even about 10 years ago, but how many will consider it top 5 today. As an international student myself, I can attest that Purdue was more attractive than USC even several years ago, but more and more people recognize the strength of USC Viterbi and choose to go this way.

[/quote]

Apparently not enough to sway the opinions of the USNWR peer and recruiter survey ... USC scored a low 3.5 and 3.6 respectively in the assessment (compared to Purdue's 4.1 and 4.3).</p>

<p>Viterbi's USNWR ranking is inconsistent. Its graduate program is ranked #8 overall, despite rather low rankings for its individual deparments and a #29 ranking for its undergraduate program.</p>

<p>Viterbi's USNWR ranking:
Overall: 8 ...... (UG) 29
Peer: (G) 3.5 .......... (UG) 3.5
Recruiter: (G) 3.6
Aerospace: (G) 17 .... (UG) 16
Biomedical: (G) 27 .... (UG) NR
Chemical: (G) 36 ..... (UG) NR
Civil: (G) 30 ........... (UG) NR
Computer: (G) 13 .... (UG) 18
Electrical: (G) 12 ..... (UG) 15
Environ: (G) 55 ........ (UG) NR
Industrial: (G) 13 ..... (UG) 14
Materials: (G) 32 ...... (UG) NR
Mechanical: (G) 26 .... (UG) NR
Petroleum: (G) 9</p>

68

<p>
[quote]
For educational purpose, gd016 and techie, the NRC ranking is 12 (or 13) years old and your parents were students at least 20 years ago. Purdue was a top 5 engineering school even about 10 years ago, but how many will consider it top 5 today.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Undergrad engineering rankings from USNews this year are also pretty much in-tune with the NRC rankings, check them yourself. How many will consider Purdue top 5 today you ask? Plenty, I'd personally say MIT, Caltech, Cal, U of I and Purdue, but you'd probably get something closer to a unanimous yes if you asked people if they consider Purdue engineering to be a part of the top 10.</p>

<p>
[quote]
As an international student myself, I can attest that Purdue was more attractive than USC even several years ago, but more and more people recognize the strength of USC Viterbi and choose to go this way.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What happened in those several years? Purdue's always been where it's at, in the middle of nowhere in Indiana, USC has also been right where it is now, in "SoCal," USC's engineering school I'm sure has been around longer than a several years ago so it isn't like it didn't exist back then, are you trying to say that while USC's been drastically improving over the years, Purdue's been sittting on its behind doing nothing? Purdue engineering has had a great rep in the past, and it still does. For a serious engineer, if the choice were between Purdue and USC, it should be a no brainer whether it's right now or ten years ago.</p>

69

<p>^actually for EE/Computer, USC is pretty good. it's also very good if one is interesting in animation technology or games development.</p>

70

<p>
[quote]
USC has very little "world" recognition. Purdue usually ranks in the 70s for world rankings, USC in the 120s. Neither school is Harvard nor Stanford, but Purdue at least has a specialized top program in the nation, USC has no such thing. USC is by no means a different caliber school than Purdue; if it is, then it's USC that is of lower caliber if you ask me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Huh? USC has had the highest number of international students for seven years running. Press</a> Release: USC Tops International Student Enrollment</p>

<p>And just to set the record straight....</p>

<p>Purdue
Percent applicants admitted: 79%
SAT Critical Reading: 490 - 610
SAT Math: 530 - 660
SAT Writing: No statistics
Source: College</a> Search - Purdue University - Purdue - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®</p>

<p>USC
Percent applicants admitted: 25%
SAT Critical Reading: 620 - 720
SAT Math: 650 - 740
SAT Writing: 640 - 720
Source: College</a> Search - University of Southern California - USC - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®</p>

71

<p>Comparing Purdue with USC is just insane. Purdue students are delusional.</p>

72

<p>
[quote]
Nah, maybe if this were Purdue vs. UCLA, Pandem, then it'd be a no brainer, but I can't say the same for USC. It's kind of a mystery why USC exists when there's a UCLA

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not to say UCLA isn't a great school, but here are some strengths of USC.</p>

<p>• Higher entering average SAT (see below)
• More school spirit
• Better alumni connections
• Better financial aid
• Better job network
• Undergrad business
• Better film school
• More individual attention
• Smaller class sizes
• No impacted majors</p>

<p>There are lot's of reasons....</p>

<p>USC</p>

<p>SAT Critical Reading: 620 - 720
SAT Math: 650 - 740
SAT Writing: 640 - 720
Source: College</a> Search - University of Southern California - USC - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®</p>

<p>UCLA</p>

<p>SAT Critical Reading: 570 - 690
SAT Math: 610 - 740
SAT Writing: 580 - 700
Source: College</a> Search - University of California: Los Angeles - UCLA - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®</p>

<p>(Yes I know about the superscoring, doesn't make up the difference though.)</p>

73

<p><a href="http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/0910/FreshmanProfile2008v3.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/0910/FreshmanProfile2008v3.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Where's Purdue's freshman profile?</p>

74

<p>Let's get back on track, this thread should be Purdue/USC. This thread should not be USC vs UCLA because I'm also tired of those threads.</p>

75

<p>It's nice to see that USC students and fans are as defensive about its academics as they are its football team. :)</p>

76

In 2015, Purdue is much better than USC, in all aspects mentioned above, which took me half an hour to read.

77

I wouldn’t say that. Most people would choose USC over Purdue for any major, even engineering, unless we include the price difference. Rankings aren’t everything. Sometimes the calibre of students applying is more important.