pursuing a new degree after 100k debt for unfinished RISD degree: a cautionary tale

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
1

<p>I feel the need to post a warning to students wondering if art school is too much money for them.</p>

<p>If you're asking then, yes... yes, it is too much money. Probably.</p>

<p>After much hardship, including time off, I'm now pursuing a rewarding degree (3.9 gpa) I'm passionate about that will make me money to pay of the roughly ~$100k I owe from 3 years of school (2 from art school). I am on track to hopefully within 10 years pay off that debt as well as continue to grad school and keep art in my life.</p>

<p>But I really want to caution against doing what I did.</p>

<p>I went to art school, including RISD, about 6 years ago. I'm $100k in debt because of it. Really, I can't say it enough; that's tremendous.</p>

<p>I had to leave after two years for financial reasons beyond my control, because it was too much money and I had too much debt. I'm so thankful I had to leave, as much as it seemingly ruined my life for years, but I just grew as a person and have overcome it. Please realize before it's too late that the amount RISD (and other schools) charge is a LOT. It needs to be carefully considered, and sometimes you may have to change your dreams to be more practical. You need to learn at a young age the true meaning of this money and how it can potentially cause great harm in your life.</p>

<p>I thought sharing may prevent heartache from like minded people, who may be like I was at 18.</p>

<p>And here's why I pursued art:</p>

<p>I was passionate for it, above all else. I lived, slept, and breathed it. I had a drive to go to RISD, specifically, from the time I was 14.</p>

<p>My high school art teacher told me that I was one of his top three students in his 40 years of being an art teacher. I was sure that I was bound for bigger things.</p>

<p>To put that in perspective, one of my high school art teacher's other top students has received many accolades as an illustrator, has given national talks, and is frequently listed as one of the really successful RISD graduates. I mean, I could've only hoped that I could've had a fraction of success he has, but my art teacher saw that potential in me, at least.</p>

<p>I'm not saying it isn't possible to go to RISD and become successful, but doing so requires much caution and careful planning, money wise. Many people can and do attend and pay for RISD everyday. That's why RISD is still in business. I don't know how that particular graduate did it, and it's not my place to speak for him.</p>

<p>But I can say: It's not for people like <em>me</em></p>

<p>Unless you're parents are rich, you are rich, or you somehow receive a ridiculously large scholarship from RISD (or whatever school), it probably just is NOT WORTH IT. REALLY!</p>

<p>Dreams are good, but we live in a capitalist society and unfortunately you are largely bound by what you're born into. Working hard only gets you so far, and art isn't exactly the biggest money-making commodity. It requires many of the talents I possess (art wise), but you also need many important factors I lack, including thick skin, and well, money. It requires a talent bigger than I (even art wise, to get merit money), if you come from my background. It requires a lot of luck and a lot of fortune. Don't get me wrong; I worked my butt off. I spent upwards of 40 hours a week on homework at RISD. I worked incredibly hard to get in, was waived from the usually required summer program based on my portfolio, and MAN if I didn't want it more than anything.</p>

<p>But wanting it isn't enough, sometimes, if you realize what's important (re:money, and amount of debt) when it's too late.</p>

<p>My parents weren't much of a help when it came to college, whether it be selecting one, what I should major in, or how I was going to pay for it. I relied completely on the internet and my art teacher for guidance. I was truly a first generation student and no one in my family had much advice regarding anything college related.</p>

<p>Never once did anyone in my life caution me against the perils of amassing large amounts of debt to achieve my art dreams, until it was too late; this includes guidance counselors and other teachers. Never once did my parents tell me it was too much money; they thought that's just what people did. They didn't go to college, and they made just a little bit too much money such that they couldn't contribute but I didn't qualify for aid, either.</p>

<p>Never once did anyone in my life tell me that maybe I should pursue something other than art, despite my, for example, 98 average my senior year of high school in all honors classes (my school didn't have AP at the time).</p>

<p>Back then, I read maybe one thread on here, after searching a lot, over the cost of going to art school and was it worth it?, but I thought for some misguided reason that <em>I</em> would be different and RISD would make me successful enough that the money would fall into place.</p>

<p>I was 18. I never had a job. I didn't know about my parents' finances. I didn't know much about money. I really wish I had concerned myself more with such things.</p>

<p>Nope. DON'T BE THAT PERSON. If you are reading this, please, do not make the same mistake I made and take out massive amounts of debt to fund an art education. Or any education. Really, go to community college or the cheapest possible option. You come from a background where your parents can't contribute? That's too bad; really, I feel bad for you. But please, please don't fall into the trap of thinking that a degree is worth the amount of money they charge at face value. </p>

<p>Do what I wish I did:</p>

<p>Go to community college right out of high school. Try finding the cheapest option. If RISD (or whatever school) doesn't let you in with a large enough scholarship, either move on - because there are many great schools out there - or keep working and re-applying, but without digging yourself into deep debt! Or, if you feel too discouraged, try out another career option entirely. Life is short, and maybe you'll find something you like even more and will bring you a more comfortable lifestyle than being an artist with $250k in debt (when all is said and done).</p>

<p>An art school diploma can really be just a piece of paper, like any other college degree, and I mean, look how that is going these days with so many people being out of work. The art school experience can certainly be worth it, if you don't get into as much debt as I have to do so. I mean, I do miss being surrounded by unique people from all over the world, who have values that may be so different from mine, who I would constantly be challenged and amazed by, artistically and intellectually. Their love for art and passion was infectious, just like my current peers' love for helping people, passion for our field, and driven attitudes towards school are infectious. They're similar, in many ways; I'm still living a similar life. But I never would have imagined being where I am now, at this age, with all this hardship I've overcome. Really, I'm not saying that art school isn't amazing, or that it isn't what it's made out to be; in many ways, it is. But at what price?</p>

<p>$100,000 for me. That's no small amount of money to owe, without a college degree yet, without any real way to support myself or overcome it at this very moment except work extremely hard in my current program and hope against hope I'll be successful. I have the drive, ambition, determination, and intelligence to do so - I mean, that got me into RISD in the first place. It's just more practical for me to now pursue my more science related career (that I scored in the upper percentiles on the standardized admissions exam) than art for now. I realized too late that I was getting into too much debt...</p>

<p>Really...</p>

<p>I'd like to hear other peoples' thoughts.</p>

<p>Do you think it's a good idea to get into $250,000 worth of debt to go to RISD (or another "top school")? If you're not born into having that ability, money wise, to do that, is it really worth it? At what level of talent do you think is reasonable for people to take on debt, and when is it just misguided?</p>

<p>Any other advice for future students looking for guidance re:taking out loans?</p>

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<p>Thanks for posting this and I am sorry that you are in this state. I have always warned students to avoid debt like the plague. When you were graduating from high school, would you go out and buy a Ferrari? No, you couldn’t afford it and no one would give you a loan for one. But college loans are not like that. They are perfectly happy giving you as much money as you want, and it’s tempting as hell. Cocaine is temping too, but don’t do it.</p>

<p>Besides the crippling debt after graduation, one of the main reasons to avoid debt is to gain the freedom that comes. Right out of school, especially for careers which require you to establish yourself (e.g., film and visual arts), you need time to create your career. This is not like engineering where you immediately start off with a $65K salary. Having a crushing debt also crushes that freedom. You immediately need a job - any job, not necessarily the one you trained for.</p>

<p>Go to a school you can afford with little or no debt. It’s that simple. But students - probably fueled by their parents - get a school in mind and MUST go there.</p>

<p>Probably one of the greatest gifts we gave our son was a debt-free college graduation. One of the best gifts he gave us was choosing the most affordable school. After scholarships at on OOS state school, his tuition was about $3000 per year. That, plus his dorm/food the first two year was something we could handle. For the last two years, he made his own money to pay for food and fun and most of his off-campus rent. Then, after graduation, it took him about six months to get his film career off the ground. One year after graduation, he no longer worried about jobs.</p>

<p>“LOANS: They’re so tempting, don’t even try it once!”</p>

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<p>mirrortothemoon, that was a great post. I’m very sorry you are in the position, but you sound mature and determined to dig yourself out of this debt.</p>

<p>Bottom line: don’t take on debt if you are going into the arts, or even other fields in this tough job market. </p>

<p>It is hard to understand all this at age 18, so I’d like to tell you not to beat yourself up over it. 17 and 18-year olds need sound, mature advice on these subjects.</p>

<p>The greatest gift a parent can give a child going to college is a debt-free education. As digmedia said, to succeed in the arts, one needs to have the freedom and time to pursue one’s career. The newly-trained artist can’t be worrying about rent, buying food, and debt on top of it all. I have two-up-and-coming daughters in the arts, currently studying. So this is all very relevant to us.</p>

<p>My oldest, now-25-year old daughter, is a successful professional painter. Her tuition 8 years ago at a Florence atelier was not so much, and scholarships covered most of her tuition and costs. Many of the other students, all older than her, were from wealthy backgrounds. Other students who were not, and were paying full fare struggled; a number of them are not professional artists today.</p>

<p>So how does one become a successful artist? Here is our experience. Keep in mind that others will have different experiences:</p>

<p>–Be very talented at a young age. Talented to the point that you are already earning money in your field BEFORE you go to college, if you go at all.</p>

<p>-Either come from a wealthy family, or don’t spend more than you have. Absolutely no debt.</p>

<p>–Have a supportive family/parents. In our case, we let our daughter have her art studio in our home. My husband made many of her frames, and now makes her crates for shipping to art galleries. We also allowed her to skip college altogether, and attend an atelier in Italy instead. Basically, we got out of her way and let her forge her own path, as long as she didn’t waste money or her time.</p>

<p>–Know who your clients are. Many middle class folks can’t buy things like art these days. The economy is tough. But if you sell to the wealthy, you’ll do fine.</p>

<p>–Art school cannot teach you creativity, despite what some may claim. It can teach you skills. You must have your own innate creativity, ideas and drive. Having other skills (such as excellent writing skills) comes in very handy.</p>

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<p>mirrortothemoon, thank you for sharing. this was a very good post. I want to show it to my 18 year old college student but I know she will roll her eyes.
We supported her interest in Art through high school, magnet Fine Art high school, MICA pre-college. She decided against Art College because she loves science too.
We are having her attend an excellent University that we will cover all cost for 4 years but it was not her #1 choice. It’s hard to reason with her. I hope one day she will thank us. She’ll be able to go on to get her Masters with grants scholarships and loans without much debt. She’s an Artist at heart and I know she wishes she was in the Art College enviornment.</p>

5

<p>Thanks for your post; there is a sub-forum of College Admissions called Hindsight and Lessons Learned where this post would also be useful. </p>

<p>$100,000 or 250,000 is too much debt for any major. I would be curious to know how you were able to be lent this money. Students can only borrow a limited amount, which is still a good, but more reasonable chunk, generally around $27,000.</p>

<p>I agree that colleges in that price range only work if your parent can and will pay, or you are being given a very substantial amount of aid. Otherwise you have to be creative. </p>

<p>I knew quite a few artists, being young in an artsy era in an artsy city. The ones I knew who were successful first lived very cheaply (one rented the hall closet in a flat) and frugally doing menial jobs and toiling away at their art.</p>

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<p>First, I want to disagree with your comment about Community College. As a non-traditional, older student I had an advisor ask why I didn’t go to CC for 2 years first, several people assuming I was a transfer, and one college wouldn’t even accept my application unless I went to CC for at least a year first (!!) Now that Im here in my 4 year school I am more clear than ever starting as a freshman at a quality 4 year university was the right move. There are so many great courses here I won’t even be able to take all of them that I want to and achieve my goals in just 4 years. I can’t imagine having only 2 to work with here.</p>

<p>Sure, if all a person cares about is the degree, not the education or experience, then CC is a good way to save some money. But it is not right for “everyone” and not even everyone poor. A really good education is priceless.</p>

<p>That said, being someone interested in art history and art, I am worried about the “starving artist” rumors. I’m trying to get around that by getting a minor, double major, certification in other things so that I have more options later if Art doesn’t pan out right away. For someone who’s not just in it for the degree, I think that is a good way to go, less risk.</p>

<p>That is a lot of money for any degree. But there are a lot of good, 4 year colleges that don’t cost that much for in state residents.</p>

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<p>Glamorousgirl,
You have some great points, about how art school truly is invaluable in many ways. I’m going to take some steps back and argue from my opposite original point, because I’m not all knowing about everything and what every single person should do. I can only speak from my limited experience and hope that it could save even just one person who’s like me, and I can certainly see both sides.</p>

<p>Actually, I’m going to go so far as to say, for some – that $250,000, under the right set of circumstances, can certainly be worth it, if it’s what they want to do and they have all necessary supports in place.</p>

<p>I realize now, looking back at my post, how overbearing and all-seeming I may have come across. Let me explain my background, where I’m coming from, how I absolutely agree with you regarding the worth of art school, and how my opinion would be different if things had gone differently for me.</p>

<p>I said in my OP: “The art school experience can certainly be worth it, <strong><em>if you don’t get into as much debt as I have to do so</em></strong>. I mean, I do miss being surrounded by unique people from all over the world, who have values that may be so different from mine, who I would constantly be challenged and amazed by, artistically and intellectually…”</p>

<p>I SHOULD add: “and don’t finish the degree for reasons beyond your control.”</p>

<p>Also, you said, in regards to CC: “But it is not right for “everyone” and not even everyone poor."</p>

<p>I never said going to CC is something everyone should do. If you can afford a good art school that you love, if it is within your means, you have help and support (preferably monetarily but in every way possible) from someone, or you get a large scholarship, then YES, absolutely do it. If it’s within your means, absolutely follow your dreams. The world needs artists who are passionate and make the world a more beautiful place.</p>

<p>You know what? Even if it’s not in your means – but you have a STABLE form of getting loans indefinitely and will not be overcome by mental illness, sickness, or have a plan B if that happens (emergency fund, connections, I don’t know – something that makes you completely confident that you will overcome it) – I mean, c’mon. It’s RISD (or dream school). I don’t know ANY people from my class that graduated in 2011 that aren’t at least somewhat ridiculously successful. RISD an over 90% placement rating of graduates finding work in their field, in art, or going to graduate school within 6 months of graduation. The remaining few percent (2-5? Don’t quote me on it, but it’s low, and I’m among it) go on to do other things. It’s no guarantee, but with the right attitude and circumstances it’s possible. Just need to be VERY cautious.</p>

<p>I’ll tell you how I agree with you (re:art school love), and then I’m going to re-emphasize some things that may have gotten lost in my post regarding my background, what happened, and what may not be true for <em>all,</em> and how yes absolutely that much debt can be crippling under a set or circumstances.</p>

<p>Being at RISD was one of the best years of my life, hands down. I achieved my dream of getting in to exactly what I had worked so hard towards, was finally around like minded artists who were dedicated and passionate, was learning from top artists in their fields, and was intensely immersed in art in a way that I’ll likely never get to experience again (because of the debt I’m now it, but I think a lot of art grads experience similar feelings post graduation). Truly, I have YET to meet another person <em>in real life</em> who was as dedicated, talented, and passionate about art as I am, who I didn’t meet at RISD or because of art school. It’s a rare and special place.</p>

<p>Yes, I agree with you that there are things that could make it worthwhile, or that are invaluable, that you can’t get from a community college. I see where you’re coming from (after having gone to two public colleges and two private ones). I’m not saying you’re wrong for your personal decision. Art was (and is still!) my passion too. That’s why I went in the first place. There are countless invaluable things you gain from a private art education. That’s how I rationalized it, too (as in went to art school despite my debts of handling it emotionally and worrying about potential mental illness, the stability of my monetary support, and things going to plan.)</p>

<p>My post isn’t denying the amazing experience of art school vs community college.
I realize now that I speculated a lot in my post. I’m saying, let CC be a stepping stone to your dreams, so that you keep practicality. Let’s get this straight: I didn’t finish my RISD degree, but not because of RISD (other them withholding my transcripts because I owed them money directly). Had things gone differently, and to plan, I would love to think I would have been living a successful life as an artist (regardless of debt). I would love to think that I wouldn’t mind the debt if I was doing exactly what I love. I would love to think I could have a meaningful life despite a lower salary. I mean, SO many people go to RISD; they’re not all rich; they don’t all get full scholarships (far from it)…. Many MUST get into the debt I’m cautioning against. I would love to believe. Nothing’s certain. </p>

<p>I’m saying to be very careful. What might be PERHAPS more accurate is saying that if you come from a background like mine, getting into all this debt without FINISHING is not worth it. Have plan B’s. Create the best possible safety net for yourself that you can.</p>

<p>I realize it may be hard to extrapolate my situation to others’, as my downfalls were very specific: severe mental illness and loss of monetary support regarding getting loans.
I’m coming from a place where for many years I was A) so ill I could barely work and B) had no way of getting my transcripts and going back to school because I owed money so no more school for me, and just no way to support myself above minimum wage because A and B. It was an absolute nightmare. I mean, I speculate still: Maybe if I had finished, it would have been worth it. Maybe the debt would still be worth it, if I was working at a dream job that I got because of the skills and connections made at RISD.</p>

<p>Someone I know/knew at RISD, who is an amazingly talented and wonderful artist and person, has made similar cautionary statements regarding going to art school and getting into debt. He also had to leave RISD because of money. But you know what? He made it, and then some. He’s one of the most successful artists that I’ve ever met who’s my age, and he did it all through extreme hard work and dedication. I really admire him. He had things I didn’t have. It’s still possible, even in a situation like mine, to overcome it.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I just have lots stacked against me, and if you DONT have that buffer of having rich parents (or parents who can help, or some other practicality- changing from above mentioned person because I don’t know how they did it) or scholarships or mental stability or some sort of other stability, then life will become very hard. I’m not even necessarily targeting this people who are so poor that they end up getting so much need-based financial aid that it makes it possible, etc, or get large scholarships. I’m talking people who get ZERO financial assistance other than loans, like the situation I was in, where my parents were NOT in a position to help me.</p>

<p>For example, I haven’t hot water or heat in my house for two years, because my parents (who I still live with - at age 24 - and depend on), are so focused on paying back my loans that they simply cannot afford any other obvious necessities. Working on getting them deferred again now that I’m in school The loans have been deferred before when I was out of school, but then things came up like expensive car repairs (on old, used, high mileage cars as well as two hospitalizations for me that weren’t completely covered), so it’s still something I suffer through. My parents make enough money such that when it was just ME in college (and not my sibling), they were expected to contribute a whopping $16,000. But with them so poorly managing their money and not able to advise me (I don’t fault them for it at all, though I feel bad and want to help them, but I totally didn’t understand what was going on financially at that age), it was a huge mistake to even attempt art school. I say that in hindsight, hoping I can suggest a future person like me can ask more about their parents’ money situation, or get a psych and health evaluation, and take care of every possible plan B before assuming the massive responsibility this debt is. Really understand yourself, your goals, your purposes, and plan for everything you can to go right or wrong, which something inevitably will.</p>

<p>There’s a big part of me that pains me to acknowledge the practicality of my thinking of not getting into debt when I am SO MUCH of an idealistic dreamer and would love to say, yes, the world will comfort you when you fall and everything will be A-OK because art is what you’re meant to do. But that doesn’t happen. It takes a lot of help, a lot of hard work, and a lot of life-altering character building. I hit the lowest part in my life when art school was ripped from me; it happens. I’ve overcome a lot. I’m trying to save young people the time, money, and aggravation. I’m SO proud of how far I’ve come, how successful I now am, my positive attitude, my outlook on life, and the stronger person who I’ve become… but I’m sure there must be easier ways to develop those qualities haha.</p>

<p>Making this decision to NOT go to an expensive art school when you REALLY want it, and you have the talent but not the money, would be REALLY hard. And I don’t have all the answers, except to play it safe so you don’t get hurt to at least the least extent possible.</p>

<p>I’m trying to say, it’s much better to make the best possible footing you can for yourself right of the bat. Don’t make life more difficult than it already is. I’m not saying NEVER go to that dream art school; just defer it until it’s within your means, or you’re psychologically prepared enough for your life values, goals, circumstances etc changing. Try every possible thing you can to not become destitute.</p>

<p>By the way, I have the utmost confidence in my future, now: My plan, to be completely honest, is to, once I pay off my debt, take a job working 3 12 hour shifts a week and dedicating the rest of my time to art. The dreamer in me still thinks it’s possible.</p>

<p>Uh, wow – sorry. I kind of went on a completely personal and soul bearing journey in this post. I actually want to write a memoir one day, I feel like I need to share this stuff, and I absolutely love writing. </p>

<p>Mods, if this is not the appropriate forum to be sharing this in, feel free to move it.</p>

<p>Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in life and your art career. Way to follow your dreams! Thanks for reminding me why I made the choices I made in the first place. I posted the OP on a very dark day for me (downfalls of the permanence of the internet).</p>

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<p>digmedia:</p>

<p>Congratulations on raising such a wonderful and responsible son, and for providing a safe and encouraging environment for him. You should be very proud.</p>

<p>Perhaps the debt is possible if you have someone helping pay things right out of school; but it would be hard, for sure. Starting out would most likely be the hardest part. If you don’t live in particular areas where art is in high demand (NYC, California - which both have high costs of living), then it would most certainly be an uphill battle.</p>

<p>I’d love to read success stories of art school graduates (or any graduates) who amassed large loans and yet overcame it and don’t regret their debt. Online, I’ve only read stories about struggle and needing advice because they’re not doing what they went to school for, etc. I’d like to believe it’s possible.</p>

<p>Anyway, thanks for your reply.</p>

<p>woodwinds:
Most certainly; extremely determined. I appreciate the compliment.</p>

<p>All around, great post for suggestions about making it as an artist right out of school. Those are important factors to consider when starting. What a wonderful experience your daughter must have had studying in Italy. Thanks for your insight.</p>

<p>IreneTeam:
I hope you would get to show my post to your daughter. I would’ve rolled my eyes at something similar, too, when I was that age. It must be hard. I think she’s absolutely doing the right thing for her. And who knows; she could find a way to make both science and art work, someday. I think it’s great that she’s staying practical and making a wise decision for her age to secure a comfortable lifestyle. I think it’s great that you’ve been so supportive. Thanks for sharing.</p>

<p>BrownParent:
Thanks for the tip! I’ll check it out.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I think many students find themselves in my position; too much loan money when it doesn’t necessarily always warrant it for the end payoff. I went through two separate lenders to get the amount I did, and had a credit worthy cosigner on completely private loans. No public loans in my art school years. Can you believe I didn’t even know I qualified for Stafford grants? Man, I want to go back and kick myself! But I think more financial counseling needs to be given to young people regarding their options and what’s feasible in the real world.</p>

<p>Additionally, a better system should be developed regarding how much money is available for students to borrow (maybe only a certain amount of money allowed based on earning potential? Not sure, but it needs fixing.) But, as always, loan companies make their money by doing what they do, so not sure how hopeful I am that things will change until something major happens and the bubble bursts like the housing market.</p>

<p>Unrelated: You’re a Brown parent? How did your child like the school? I was always in awe of being surrounded by such intelligent people just up the hill. Wanted to cross register there, but never got the chance.</p>

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<p>I think the big assumption about Community College is that the education will not be as strong as it would at an art school or any other top ranked school. To be frank, the single difference between a community college and a top ranked school is reputation. At a top ranked school, you have the reputation to assure you that you’ll recieve a quality education. At a community college there is more risk because the lack of a reputation. </p>

<p>However, there a community colleges with foundation programs as strong as many of the top ranked schools. Most likely, there would be less resources but not drastically less.</p>

<p>Remember, it’s incredibly difficult to become a tenured college professor. Professors a still qualified working artists and likely graduated from some of the schools you would be interested in applying to. </p>

<p>If your goals are TRULY strictly to receive a quality education, then it is the better choice to search for a strong Community College than to spend 60k to 80k for essentially the same foundation year experience.</p>

10

<p>I think it is very unfortunate, and in many cases wrong, for students who cannot afford the very high tuition costs to go to private colleges and take on 100% loans. I don’t see how lending institutions can lend such young people so much money who cannot afford to pay it back.</p>

<p>There is a big myth regarding the FAFSA, that it correctly calculates what parents can afford to pay. For most families, the FAFSA estimate is far, far off, especially for people living in high cost of living areas. But again, I don’t see how an 18-year old is going to understand the long-term implications of such debt.</p>

<p>I have a friend who is around 47 years old. He finished his PhD in political science around 10-12 years ago, and still owes over $170,000 in student loans. He can’t get a job that will allow him to pay the money back, so the loan amount keeps increasing. He is smart, very hard-working, but he is probably stuck for the rest of his life. Many people are in his position. This student loan debt cannot continue mounting nation-wide, and it won’t. Something will collapse.</p>

11

<p>I am forever at a loss to understand why students pay private art school prices for liberal arts classes–RISD requires 42 credit hours. At the very least spend a year at a CC or state school and selectively take liberal arts courses that will transfer to a private art school.</p>

12

<p>mirrortothemoon, I am so sorry to read of the financial burden you took on unwittingly and at such a young age. I really admire the way that you are not evading the responsibility of entering into it, while at the same time admitting that you took advice which was appropriate to your talent but not to your family’s economic situation. You sound incredibly mature and motivated. I also appreciate that you have not fallen into a “gripe” attitude, since RISD is a fantastic place, it just was not a good decision to go into it with debt.</p>

<p>I just want to say that I respect you for this post and I wish you all the best. You may be in a tight situation but you still have your integrity and a future ahead.</p>

13

<p>momcino: Thanks so much. Your kind words mean a lot to me. I’m certainly trying my best! Thanks for reading, and I wish you all the best.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for the replies. Very good points, all of you.</p>

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<p>Airbnb was started by 2 RISD graduates who were unemployed and couldn’t afford to pay the rent on their San Francisco apartment. They went to an Industrial Design conference and pitched the idea and it has grown and grown since. I’m not sure if either of them had massive loans or not but if so, they’re probably being paid off! Good luck to you mirror, I’m glad to see you’re on the right track however difficult it may be.</p>

<p>I remember signing my student loan papers back in the 1980’s. It just didn’t seem real to me. I assumed I would graduate, start working and then just start paying them off. I didn’t understand the economy at all! I did graduate and pay then off but NOT according to my naive, simplistic plan. It was that experience that made me much more frugal about my children’s education and what we were willing to spend for it. So far, no loans - phew!</p>

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<p>I agree with you in cautioning students not to take on a great deal of debt. However, I would caution readers not to interpret it as discouraging majoring in art. </p>

<p>$100k in debt after two years means little to no grant-based aid was offered. If debt is a concern for you, which it should be, find an art school that offers need-based aid or will give you merit scholarships, or a traditional university or college with a strong BA or BFA in art that will do the same. Even double major if you are worried (note: a liberal arts degree – even a pure science degree – isn’t a lot more lucrative than an art one without graduate school) </p>

<p>However, never second guess your desire to study art. I mean, you could be an unhappy investment banker instead, living for the weekends. However, I could think of few worse paths. In my opinion, studying art isn’t a choice. It’s something you HAVE to do. If it’s not something you feel you HAVE to do, then yeah, it’s probably not for you. </p>

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<p>NapoleonInRags, you should add, “but can you afford to do it?” This whole thread, I believe, was a cautionary story on debt and not a referendum on art. Your post disregards this by advising someone to go with their heart and not their head. That’s not good advice.</p>

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<p>NapoleonInRags: Personally, I would have loved to have the option of a school that gave me merit aid. Your post is good for someone who does actually receive that aid money. I should have applied to more schools and not been so dead set on RISD, but even the first school I went to didn’t give me any aid. I should note that straight out of high school, I was accepted to a school that did give me aid (Maine College of Art, $10k/year renewable) but it was still more expensive than the school I chose. I didn’t really know of any other options available to me that would give me aid.</p>

<p>I guess the school that would have been a good option for me, which I didn’t know about at the time, was Umass Dartmouth. I would’ve gotten in-state tuition and I’ve seen some excellent artists come from there. I should have done more research back then. I was also dead set on going to a stand alone art school. If people pursue art, consider all your options!</p>

<p>Studying art was just not feasible for me financially for those reasons I’ve outlined, and yes, I “had” to do it, or else I wouldn’t be in the position I am now. It was heartbreaking for me to have to leave. The science I’m now pursuing is actually nursing, and where I live, I will make a good salary right away. I’m happy to report I’m incredibly passionate about nursing. I’m also happy to report I’m still incredibly passionate about art, and doing anything art-related that I can in my (little) free time. I still feel like I “have” to do art, so I’m never giving up on it.</p>

<p>frugaldoctor: Relevant username? haha. Yes, that was indeed the whole point of the thread. Thank you.</p>

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<p>I want to add to my last post (but I don’t see an edit button) that even though I would’ve liked to do more research into schools, i did do a ton of it. I even just threw away about 15 art school catalog from back then. I should’ve said, i should have done more research into non stand alone art schools. But again, i was very focused on my desire to go to an art school because i thought it would give me a more specialized education as well as a better, more serious art environment. However, if you really want to do art and don’t get any aid, a liberal arts college may be a good choice for you. Thanks for giving me something to think about.</p>

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<p>My dear friend and her daughter’s school debt has spiraled way out of control and is limiting their options terribly. They cannot even pay the interest at this point. She can’t find a full time job, the student, that is, and my friend’s business has gone broke, and she is working as temp employee at a unversity for $10 an hour, living in a friend’s house, which is all that is between her and a shelter for the next year or so. They had no business taking on that kind of debt, but my friend felt it was an investment in her talented DD’s future. The young lady did well in college, though took more than 4 years and changed direction in her plans, and took advantage of internships, travels, programs in a way that would delight any parent. But couldn’t find a paying job that amounted to much afterwards so is living with mom as a 30 year old. The debt is strangling them. It happens all of the time.</p>

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<p>The arts a precarious and one skill that is valued one decade is out the next. I was an adjunct professor at RISD for 3 years teaching fashion illustration so I know a bit about the school. I was a Fine Arts major at The Boston Museum School. I taught myself illustration and how to use an airbrush to survive financially. I did very well, I had a top agent in new York and did work for all the big magazines and advertising agencies. The bottom fell out of the illustration market in the late 80’s and I was able to keep going by painting portraits. I did have painting shows in Providence that were sell outs when I was younger- but that was not enough to survive on.</p>

<p>Do not, I repeat, do not study illustration anywhere unless it is digital. Look at the magazines and see how little illustration is being done. You can learn illustration yourself if you first learn how to draw well. The major markets have dried up- book covers, movie posters, record covers, print ads.</p>

<p>You have to ask yourself just what kind of art you want to do and find out what the market is. RISD is great for abstract or theoretical but lousy if you want to do figurative art like Jacob Collins. They do not have much figure drawing- just in the first year and only in the illustration courses after that. This may have changed since I was there, but not much. Many students pay to hire their own models or go off-site to private drawing classes. If figurative work is your bent- the excellent PAFA, Philadelphia Academy of Fine Art) is cheaper- so is the Lyme Academy in Conn. Ateliers are even cheaper and sometimes better because they are run by first rate artists like Juliette Aristides. Look at the Art Renewal Center website and check out ateliers near you and in Europe.</p>

<p>Rhode Island College is a cheap alternative appx $4,000 in state tuition- they share many of the same faculty with RISD. A great deal of the faculty there are adjuncts with a MFA from Yale. So don’t think a masters will automatically bring you wealth as an adjunct there makes about ( I’m guessing here) $3,000 per semester without benefits. Ann Gale went to Rhode Island College. Mass art is also a decent instate art school that is mucho cheapo with instate tuition.</p>

<p>If you have the funds, rich parents RISD is great if what they have is suitable for you… The Apparel, Glass, Textile, Architecture, Furniture Design departments are great. If you love abstract painting RISD is your place- but other schools may offer you the same education without the heavy price tag. A degree from RISD is not automatically a door to instant success- even for the most valiant. I taught there but I do not have a degree. Jean-Micheal Basquiat did not go to art school and his pictures are selling for millions.</p>