<p>Hi I have a question about Brown University, and I wanted to ask it in a more general thread. </p>
<p>I really liked the school, when I visited recently. </p>
<p>My concern is this: The school is very selective around a 13 percent admissions rate, but at the same time its ranking on US News World Report is dropping. </p>
<p>Many people say the rankings are really overrated, and certain colleges have deals, etc. But what I want to know is why such a selective institution isn't ranked any higher? I feel like I'm trying to hard to get into a selective school, and then people will not regard the school with as much respect. </p>
<p>I was in shock when I found that Dartmouth and Cornell and Duke and Wash U and Johns Hopkins all beat out Brown this year. I mean I definitely agree they are fantastic institutions, no doubt, but after visiting many of these schools, I would say by far Brown was the most impressive. Personally, I think Duke is alot of "southern" prestige....that's it. It shouldn't be as high as it is. Its admissions rate is 25 percent...</p>
<p>oh, and i'm not trying to give off the impression that i think the rankings are everything. i'm sorry if i did. </p>
<p>while selectivity, may not be the factor in USNWR, somehow it seems a little odd to me that Brown keeps dropping like this. I'm sure if there was any school that would reject paying USNWR, it would be Brown, but I have no idea if this is the case.</p>
<p>this is being talked about in a lot of places. Brown is a great school and is seen by a lot of people (both on cc and the outside world) as underrated in the rankings. If you were worried about prestige and peoples impressions when they hear where you go to school, from my experience I can tell you that Brown is seen as a better/more prestigious school than Wash U, Hopkins and Cornell. That seems to be the perception and it is similar to Dartmouth, while its comparison with Duke really depends on where you live(duke may win out it depends). Overall its a great school and its recognized as such. So don't let the rankings dictate whether you apply.</p>
<p>Other schools like Washu manipulate their data in a way to impress US News so that they get ranked higher. An example of this is that WashU is known for recruiting a lot of applicants, then accepting a small percentage of them at first, waitlist the rest, and then accept a bunch of waitlistees. This way, it can appear more selective than it actually is, since they probably don't count admitted waitlistees as part of their overall acceptance rates. </p>
<p>I don't really know what factors are taken into account in the rankings, but I think test scores is one of them (and GPA may be, too.) From what I've seen on this board, Brown is a lot more about the "holistic candidate" in practice than the other Ivies and top schools; thus, their admitted students' numbers are probably a bit lower. My guess is that this is significant enough to make a difference in the rankings... I could be completely off base, though.</p>
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Other schools like Washu manipulate their data in a way to impress US News so that they get ranked higher. An example of this is that WashU is known for recruiting a lot of applicants, then accepting a small percentage of them at first, waitlist the rest, and then accept a bunch of waitlistees. This way, it can appear more selective than it actually is, since they probably don't count admitted waitlistees as part of their overall acceptance rates
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I am sorry but this is constantly stated here and I doubt its true. Utilizing the waitlist does not automatically affect your acceptance rate, unless they purposely admit waitlist students that they know won't attend, which may or may not be true. On the other hand you have no proof whatsoever that they don't count admitted waitlistees as admitted students, and I would bet a lot that that statement is completely false. Judging by its acceptance rate, sat scores and growing prestige, I don't think Wash U as much too worry about... A major University may game USNWR, but it does not lie about something as large as that.</p>
<p>its not that i'm worried i won't get a good education there.
its just unfortunate, that even though i don't want to worry about prestige, i feel i have to a little bit, which job opportunities afterwards. </p>
<p>^Brown does extremely well with grad school/job opportunities. Over 95% of pre-law students get into their top 3 law school choices, for example. And considering the caliber of Brown students, their top three choices are most likely Harvard, Stanford and Yale law school, which each have acceptance rates around 5%. </p>
<p>Also, Brown has a really good relationship with the UN, so if international relations is your thing, Brown's got your back. </p>
<p>There are a few other companies that are known for hiring a lot of Brown students, but I can't remember their names.</p>
<p>I am not sure what you mean by you thought "Brown was more impressive" than places like Duke and Dartmouth. I think its very hard to decifer "impressive" on a college visit. There's lots more involved. That said, Brown does very well overall when it comes to graduate placement and recruiting and at 16 its ranked far below its real-world reputation and success. </p>
<p>Non-research driven schools like Brown and Dartmouth are at an inherent disadvantage to place like Penn, Duke, and Columbia because of graduate driven peer assessment. Also due to certain kinks in the data its harder to win on the "undergrad" focused metrics such as student/ faculty ratio and class size. A place like WashU will report a small s/f ratio by including graduate staff that might teach one class, whereas at Brown or Dartmouth faculty this rarely happens. Also some of the research schools will have classes with over 300 people, never happens at Brown and Dartmouth, but this isn't counted either. A place like WashU also can inflate areas like selectivity (does anyone really think its more selective than Stanford?) by adding in large numbers of scholarships to raise scores and potentially skewing the way it reports. </p>
<p>Dartmouth manages to always be top-tenish because of its huge per student endowment which allows it to compete despite these disadvantages in USNEWS calculations. Also it tends to do very well in areas like alumni giving. Brown, which is only a little richer than places like Columbia and PEnn, loses out.</p>
<p>Overall I'd say Brown and Dartmouth are among the top 7 undergrad schools in the country. Placement stats, selectivity, recruiting trends etc all show this. But because of the way USNEWS analyzes data Brown gets the short end of the stick.</p>
<p>There is virtually no difference among schools ranked between #6 and #25. Some schools, like Brown, Cal and Cornell are much better than the USNWR would suggest, other schools are perhaps slightly overranked. But overall, very little separates the top schools and contrary to what some here may claim, one's chances at landing a good job or getting into a great graduate program will not be enhanced by attending one of those elite schools rather than another.</p>
<p>Since when does having a low acceptance rate directly have anything to do with how good a college is. It MAY suggest that there is a stronger student body but thats as far as we can semi-safely assume. Yes, it has a lower acceptance rate than some other schools that it is ranked below, but that is a minor detail.</p>
<p>One more thing, people that matter know what Brown is all about. No disrespect but you are not going to be asking to be employed by someone who is not familiar with the best schools in the States. As for prestige, going to Harvard... you will get some WOWs from random people that will walk out of your life after two minutes. Why? Because it places consistently top two in the rankings. People will always be ignorant of the schools that place out the top 5 at most. So, it really does not matter. As for the people that matter, Brown will be well regarded and respected and that is all that matters when it comes down to it. Go for it and aim high and work hard. That's all that matters for now.</p>
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But overall, very little separates the top schools and contrary to what some here may claim, one's chances at landing a good job or getting into a great graduate program will not be enhanced by attending one of those elite schools rather than another.
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<p>Why then did I recently here from a recruiter from a big company that its definitely harder to get a job coming from Wash U and JHU then coming from Penn or another Ivy. I feel he would not be saying this out of self interest, because one of his kids went to Wash U. Not every top 25 school does equally well in job placement, there are definitely differences. The right way to phrase it would be, if you work hard and do well at any of these schools then you can do anything, but for most kids certain schools provide advantages over others.</p>
<p>I agree with bescraze on this- the top 25 is not equal at all. While some like to see it this way, the world isn't HYPSM and then the rest of the top 25. Compare grad placement and recruiting from Dartmouth or Penn vs. WashU. Incredible difference. Dartmouth is much much closer to Harvard than it is to WashU.</p>
<p>I am starting to hate this website. Everyone here is a postsecondary educational snob. You get just about the same education at any school you go to. It's sickening to watch people complain and complain over a bunch of rankings that have proven to be pointless time and time again.</p>
<p>As a reply to Bescraze, there are two many statistical discrepancies to say that one school has better job placement than another. Differences in majors, average GPA, and other things all affect this.</p>
<p>Yes, I dislike Brown, but the Brown threads have all been on the top of the front page thus becoming the target of my criticism. I might not hate it so much if out tour guide didn't leave such a bad impression on me by calling Cornell the craphole of the ivies.</p>