Question about school selectivity

<p>I think if he has an AP test grade in Music Theory junior year, that will be enough proof that he learned the material. Ordinarily I’m not a big fan of self-studying for APs, but this seems a reasonable exception. BTW I believe you can minor in music at Carnegie Mellon without auditioning. (The Music School otherwise is pretty selective.)</p>

<p>I just got back from my meeting with the GC. It went really well and I feel very good about their approach and resources. She went through the timeline, talked about helping with the matches, reaches, safeties, and said that there will be a strategy meeting to talk about EA, ED, etc. We talked about course difficulty, GPA. She said that almost no one takes the full load of available honors/AP courses. She showed me DS’ transcript (with only 2 years on it and blank grades for 10th grade). There is a column for designating honors or AP, and a column for the grade. At the bottom is the mean GPA. On the right, in a box, are the Regents exam scores. She said that they are only used for graduation and the colleges don’t look at them. True?</p>

<p>I asked her about class rank. They don’t calculate class rank, because it would work against the kids. With a 93 GPA (3.8), DS is right at the 25% mark. She said that the published class rank stats for colleges weren’t very meaningful, and that their experience was the only reasonable guide. She got a big stack of paper, saying that this information is not available to 10th graders, but she would show me. It was their experience for the past 3 years with a zillion colleges. I asked her about U Rochester. This is the really good news: Over a dozen kids have applied and almost all of them were accepted. Each applicant is listed with number of honors+AP courses, GPA, SAT scores, and outcome. Some kids were accepted with lower GPA, lower SAT scores than I think DS will get, and fewer honors+AP courses. I don’t know if this includes Eastman College applicants, I wish I’d thought to ask. This HS has a very strong music program and plenty of kids go to music schools and conservatories. I also asked to see UChicago, for contrast. Many applied, few were admitted. The most important factor seemed to be SAT scores - they took kids with near-perfect scores. I asked about Oberlin, and the GC said that it looked similar to Rochester. </p>

<p>DS is on track to have 9 honors + AP courses. I saw plenty of kids admitted to URochester with 6-8. The highest number I saw anywhere was 12. And a couple of kids got into UChicago with fewer.</p>

<p>So Rochester may actually turn out to be a safety, depending on how DS does on the SATs and how his grades are once he has a couple of AP courses next year. </p>

<p>I feel very good about the help we will have when it’s time to make a list. </p>

<p>Oh, and she said that the AP test with a 4 or 5 would be just as good as taking the course.</p>

<p>I hope he can get a 4 or 5 on the AP MT exam. Surprisingly, he hates music theory. </p>

<p>He is taking the chem SAT 2 this June, and the American history SAT 2 next year, after he’s done AP-USH.</p>

<p>“Surprisingly, he hates music theory.”
It’s very “dry”. Which is why is might be more fun taking it with other strong music students, as opposed to doing it alone. </p>

<p>Good point. It would be hard to fit it in to his schedule next year, though - probably impossible.</p>

<p>It doesn’t HAVE to be on his schedule next year! It can be during his Sr year. The fact that he is taking it will be seen by adcoms on his 1st semester transcript. They wont care about his music theory test scores[ unless he is applying to a music conservatory as a music major] </p>

<p>Good point, menloparkmom. I expect that his senior schedule will be just as full, though. He uses one class period for symphonic band and gets a full credit for jazz band, which meets before school. That does not leave much time in school for additional classes. </p>

<p>The GC said that some colleges recalculate GPA, often removing electives. But the GPAs I saw on their data sheets included everything, and she said all of the kids had electives with high grades.</p>

<p>From what I can tell, Rochester and Oberlin are easier to get into than I thought, while Chicago is even harder - very, very strong applicants were rejected.</p>

<p>Depending on the music opportunities, Rochester may be that safety we love. It could even turn out to be a first choice. I’m going to suggest that DS start looking into it and maybe even contacting them about music.</p>

<p>How do I find out about schools’ track records for grad and professional school placement?</p>

<p>are you asking about MBA, JD or Med School? Or PhD programs?</p>

<p>I’m thinking about PhD in sciences and MD programs. DS has no idea what he wants to do but I think one of those is likely. </p>

<p>here is the data from NSF for PhD programs. It IS from 2008 , so it is somewhat out of date, especially for USC ,which is throwing hundreds of millions of $$ to strengthen all of it’s science programs. </p>

<p>scroll down until you see this heading
“Top Schools From Which S&E Doctorate Recipients Received Bachelor’s Degrees”
there are additonal charts below this first chart </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/?govDel=USNSF_178http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/?govDel=USNSF_178”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/?govDel=USNSF_178http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/?govDel=USNSF_178&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>DS, who graduated in 2011 is at Caltech. A couple of his friends, who were Presidential scholarship winners , are at MIT and Princeton in PhD programs</p>

<p>Yes, that’s exactly what I need - wish it were more recent. I see that U Rochester is just above Berkeley on the first chart, and it would probably be #51 or 52 on the second if it went that far. </p>

<p>Where did your DS and his two friends go for undergrad? How wonderful that he is at Caltech!</p>

<p>I am just finishing this process with a son going for Mechanical Engineering. We can’t believe it, but he is actually choosing his safety school. The reason: he has been handed so many opportunities and scholarships there. We only visited 2 of his smaller schools prior to application, since they were so spread across the country. After acceptances (7), we visited the other 5- 3 are in the top 10 ranking at US News. (GA Tech, UIUC, Purdue) He was selected in Honors for 6 of them and received scholarships at all that offer merit- 6 of them. After visiting and seeing the programs available at a big university he did a 180 from wanting a smaller tech-based college. </p>

<p>His safety is ranked in the 40’s - but actually had the strongest programs he was interested in. He has been given a paid Professor Assistant for incoming Freshman - guaranteed for 2 years. He was given a Equalization Grant- so we pay in-state tuition as OOS parents, he also has a Study Abroad scholarship, and they have the most Study Abroad schools of any university. He liked the dorm set-up the best (suite style as opposed to hall bathrooms) and the food courts are unlimited with selections from pizza and burgers to steaks to sushi. (Bonus: laundry is free, too!) So- he is off to MSU this fall! My hubby is still reeling from not being able to say his kid attends a top 10 school- but after APs are included we will only be paying for 3 years at an incredible rate. If son decides to do Co-ops, which pay average of $25 hour- he will make enough to pay one full year while gaining work experience, which is crucial for employment.</p>

<p>SO- my eyes have been opened! Instead of just focusing on “rankings” I am urging friends with top students to apply to a selection and then look at the resources available. All my friends who hire have said School rank doesn’t matter much at all- they look for Internships & Co-op work experience. Do more than investigate the school- look at the programs and ask your child what they really want to do while at college. If they want to continue in ECs- ask the schools if it’s not their major, what are the chances? </p>

<p>What a great story! Things certainly worked out well for your son! </p>

<p>"Where did your DS and his two friends go for undergrad? How wonderful that he is at Caltech! "</p>

<p>USC! That’s one reason I suggested you add it to your DS’s list!
It offers sooo many opportunities to its students and is one of the fastest “rising” U’s in the US</p>

<p>Wow - I see. It is looking really good! DS seems to match their stats - wish I knew the HS experience with USC. Funny - his best friend has always wanted to go there - this boy’s mother went there. </p>

<p>If you haven’t already see it, here is the link to USC’s student profile</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/firstyear/prospective/profile.html”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/firstyear/prospective/profile.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“wish I knew the HS experience with USC”
huh? not understanding the question or context…</p>

<p>Chicago has gotten more selective since my son applied. He did have a great CR score which I am sure helped. They also have a higher acceptance rate EA, and you aren’t locked in - so it may still be worth throwing in an application if he likes the school. Obviously depending on what his grades and scores and interests end up being. If you have another meeting with a somewhat targeted list the issue of EA and ED might be something to discuss with the GC. Rochester BTW does like you to demonstrate interest. When they came to our school for College Night, they said the “highly, highly, highly, highly, highly” recommend visits. (Yes the admissions officer said highly five times!)</p>

<p>The only caveat I would add about Chicago[ DS did apply, was admitted and actually transfered there for 1 qtr, but that’s another story…] Is students wanting to take piano lessons need to find and pay for outside teachers. </p>

<p>“All financial arrangements for private lessons are made directly with the teacher, rather than through the University. Tuition dollars cannot be used for private lessons, nor does the student receive any degree credit for taking private music lessons.”</p>

<p>Whereas at other U’s, including USC, private lessons are “paid for” with units.</p>

<p>“The Musical Studies minor is for students who already have a background in
classical music performance and want to continue to develop their skills. Musical
Studies minors have the opportunity to study their instrument in private lessons and
participate in ensembles, as well as study music theory and music history”</p>

<p><a href=“General Education, Minors & Electives | USC Thornton School of Music %”>https://music.usc.edu/departments/minors/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;