<p>This is my first post, Im new to everything college and have alot of questions!<br>
My daughter is and always has been 4.0, is in almost every activity offered, plays two sports, has part time job, and in is clubs that do alot of community service. She is a very determined girl and has big dreams. One of those dreams is to attend a $40,000 college(pharmacy).
Problem is my husband and I together will do good to break $60,000 this year and have NO extra to give her. I know she will get some scholorships but I'm worried about how she is going to pay for it.<br>
How do loans work? Will she be able to borrow enough to get thru all 6 years? Are there limits? Of course I don't want her to borrow more than she needs, but I don't want her to start and not be able to finish either.</p>
<p>I have some experience with pharm schools, having gone through the process of my son applying to 6-year early assurance programs this year. Which school is your D interested in?</p>
<p>Purdue, Butler or Findlay. Butler and Findlay are direct admit 0-6 so preferably on of those.</p>
<p>My son was accepted to Butler. We were told that they do not give merit aid to pharmacy majors (no need to, since it’s so competitive to get in). The financial aid package was okay, with Stafford loans, work study, and a grant. Strictly speaking, our need was met. The problem for us was that we had to consider the professional phase. We weren’t comfortable with the idea of our son having to pay so much during those years. Grads do make over $100,000/year to start, so many students are willing to take on the debt. We are more conservative, so we just didn’t feel comfortable. However, Butler has a very good pharm program, so it is probably a good investment. You will probably have a pretty low EFC, though, so you might get really good aid from Butler. Our EFC is more middle of the road - no federal grants. You might have better luck. If I were you, I would ask them what kind of aid is available in the professional phase. Ask at what point in the program Pell grants & school grants are no longer in the financial aid package for pharm students. Ask how low EFC students finance school once these grants are gone.</p>
<p>Purdue is great if you are in-state. Otherwise, it “might” be good. There are scholarships available, but they are not easy to get (other than the standard guaranteed ones, which are a drop in the bucket with out of state tuition). Good aid is possible for out of staters, though, so it’s worth trying. Again, make sure you ask about when the grants are done & how students finance the professional phase. </p>
<p>Not sure about Findlay. S had no interest due to size, so we didn’t look too carefully. I think I recall that they did have a good aid program. Another very good pharm school with excellent aid is Ohio Northern. Again, S didn’t want ONU due to size; it’s reputation is really good, though.</p>
<p>What we experienced is that the 6 year pharmacy programs often do not offer good merit aid because they don’t have to … they get more than enough applicants, so they don’t need to give good scholarships. Public schools will not meet need for out of state students, so you would want good merit if you are out of state at a school like Purdue.</p>
<p>My son started the pharm program at a state school this year, where he is in-state. They are not direct admit, but they have early assurance. They also offer guaranteed merit for four years, so it’s affordable for us. This particular school offers students with an ACT of 31 or better & a 3.9 or better gpa full tuition for four years. That makes the last two years much easier - plus they seem to have quite a few scholarship opportunities for the professional phase. </p>
<p>Your daughter sounds like an excellent candidate for merit money at schools that offer merit to pharm students. Talk to the financial aid offices about opportunities for scholarships for pharm students - they can differ from opportunities available to students in other programs.</p>
<p>She always wanted to go to Purdue until the Purdue rep came to her high school and told her if she wanted pharmacy she should go to Butler. He told her A students werent able to stay in the program, just too competitive. After that she visited Butler and fell in love. </p>
<p>The FAFSA4caster says my EFC is 5734. and federal aid eligibility is 9100. so where does the rest come from if Butler doesn’t offer much merit? What are the best kinds of loans to take?</p>
<p>Thank you for the help!!!</p>
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<p>I am really confused by this. If your EFC is 5734 then it is too high for federal grant aid (the main federal grant, the pell, currently requires an EFC of around 5200 or less to be eligible for any Pell). </p>
<p>The only federal aid you would be definitely eligible for is a Stafford loan which is a max of $5500 for a freshman. I can’t imagine where the 9100 is coming from. Other federal aid such as the perkins loan, work study, and SEOG are campus based with limited funding so each school determines how to award those. </p>
<p>You would also be eligible for parent PLUS loans.</p>
<p>Sorry, I should have gave more detail…</p>
<p>FASFA4caster says:</p>
<p>Stafford Ln, Subsidized 3,500
Stafford Ln, Unsubsidized 2,000
Federal Work Study 1,460
Federal Perkins Ln 2,185
Estimated Federal Aid Eligibility 9,145</p>
<p>Again, I’m new to all this, not real sure what any of this even means…</p>
<p>Well it is kind of odd they say that to be honest. The Stafford is good as all students are eligible for that. But Perkins and WS are what they call campus based aid. This means a school is given $xxxx to award and once they have awarded it they have no more. Each school can set their own criteria for how to award it and there is no guarantee that you will get them. Some schools do not even participate in the Perkins loan program. And if you do the amounts may vary from school to school. My daughter’s school awards a max of $3400 and their method of awarding the Perkins is a mystery to me. One year she has received around $800, another $200, others $0 in Perkins. I think it depends on how much Perkins funding they have in any one year.</p>
<p>So don’t go into this thinking those WS and Perkins numbers are definite numbers. You may or may not get perkins and WS, depending on the school’s criteria for awarding them. If you do get them you may get less or more than those amounts. (unless there has been some huge change in FA that I am unaware of).</p>
<p>OP, are you in-state for Indiana or OH? Your schools cross the state line and the difference in tuition can be large.</p>
<p>I know she will get some scholorships but I’m worried about how she is going to pay for it.
How do loans work? Will she be able to borrow enough to get thru all 6 years? Are there limits?</p>
<p>You can’t be sure that your D will get scholarships unless her test scores are HIGH and the school gives ASSURED scholarships. Many schools don’t give scholarships and some only give them to students with high test scores. And, many schools only give competitive scholarships. Some schools give ASSURED scholarships.</p>
<p>What are your D’s test scores?</p>
<p>Her least expensive options are likely going to be either her state schools or a private that MEETS 100% of need.</p>
<p>She will have a problem with the EFC since you say that you can’t pay it.</p>
<p>The FA package that you mentioned already has the max loans in it. She should NOT borrow any more than that since she’ll also have pharm school to borrow for. Any more loans will require co-signers (you).</p>
<p>What are your D’s SAT and/or ACT scores? If they are high enough, we might be able to recommend some schools that will give her scholarships (scholarships are not based on 4.0 GPAs…too many kids have 4.0 GPAs… you have to have high test scores AND a strong GPA. </p>
<p>Are you an Indiana resident??</p>
<p>Since money is such a big issue, your D may have to forgo limiting herself to only direct admit programs or 6 year programs. Also…many kids change their majors in college, so her selection should NOT just be based on pharmacy.</p>
<p>And, do NOT let her fall in love with any schools. That will only complicate things if the school is not affordable. Butler will not be affordable.</p>
<p>Student loans…</p>
<p>Keep in mind that altho pharmacists make good money, it does NOT mean that they can afford to pay back big loans. </p>
<p>If your D borrows a total of $30k for undergrad, and another $90k+ for pharmacy school, then that could be over $120k in debt. The payments would be nearly $1400 per month. Pharm grads do NOT make enough money to pay back huge loans. see info below…</p>
<p>Here’s the info on that much student loan debt…</p>
<p>Loan Calculator</p>
<pre><code>Loan Balance: $120,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $120,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $0.00
</code></pre>
<p>**
Monthly Loan Payment: $1,380.96**
Number of Payments: 120</p>
<pre><code>Cumulative Payments: $165,715.88
Total Interest Paid: $45,715.88
</code></pre>
<p>Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $1,380.96 plus a final payment of $1,381.64.</p>
<p>It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $165,715.20 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans.</p>
<p>Remind your D that student loan payments are in addition to all the living expenses she will have…rent, car, gas, car insurance, food, utilities, cell phone, internet, clothing, health insurance, etc. She may not be able to live at home if her job is elsewhere, (or she may not want to live at home) after she graduates to save money to pay back loans.</p>
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<p>If you’re instate, you should check to see if Indiana offers state aid/scholarships and what the qualifications are. It’s likely that Butler would offer some need-based grant, but that there would still be a significant gap even with the Staffords and work study (I wouldn’t count on a definite amount from Perkins either). We have a lower EFC and were gapped by more than $10K, after loans and work study. Any gap, and your $6K EFC, are going to have to come from other sources like the dreaded Parent Plus loans, home equity loans, etc. or private student loans (which she’ll need to have a cosigner for) unless you can free up current income or savings.</p>
<p>The Stafford loan limits are $5500 for freshmen, $6500 for sophomores, and $7500 for juniors/seniors. Once she’s considered a grad student (which varies by school), the limits will increase to $20,500 per year and she’ll also be able to take other loans on her own (ie. Grad Plus). You can find a wealth of loan info and calculators here:
[FinAid</a>! Financial Aid, College Scholarships and Student Loans](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org/]FinAid”>http://www.finaid.org/)</p>
<p>IIRC, when my daughter applied to pharmacy programs a few years ago both Duquesne and Wilkes (both in PA) offered good early assurance programs and scholarships…I think the Wilkes scholarships and overall package were the most generous of the private schools that she applied to (didn’t apply to ONU or Findlay). She liked their program and campus a lot (but it’s smaller than Butler) so it might be worth a look. They do have a multi-step application process which required an interview and their program tends to fill up quickly (D waited til winter to interview and got waitlisted for the program due to space). </p>
<p>Please try to decide now what help, if any, you’re willing/able to provide and make sure your daughter understands the implications high debt will have in the future. A smart, motivated student such as your daughter doesn’t really need the guarantee that a 0-6 or even an early assurance program offers, though it’s nice to have. A high gpa in the pre-reqs, decent PCAT scores, and good LOR’s will make her a competitive candidate at many pharmacy schools in 2-4 years and many people go this route. If the expensive programs are out of reach at this time, it’s not the end of her dreams…where there’s a will, there’s a way. Good luck!</p>
<p>We are in state Indiana. </p>
<p>SAT - Critical Reading 530, Math 560, Writing 500
ACT 23
She will graduate with 45 college credit hours.</p>
<p>She does have “back-up plans” if we can’t make this work. Occupational Therapy is her other interest.</p>
<p>I just want to know all I can to help her. You guys are GREAT!! I love this forum. When I ask around locally all I get is " if theres a will theres a way" “you’ll make it work”. I need honest answers!</p>
<p>OT is another great field. My D switched to OT after her first year of pre-pharmacy…she was making the grades (with a lot of effort) but just didn’t like the heavy science curriculum and realized she was dreading another 5 years of it! OT seems like a balance of psych, sociology, and science, so it’s a good fit for her and she’s very happy that she chose a big (and affordable) school with lots of majors to choose from. </p>
<p>I know it seems cliche, but things often do have a way of working themselves out. It doesn’t mean that kids get to go to their dream schools or parents should borrow heavily to make it happen. But applying to a range of schools that the student likes usually results in at least one solid option.</p>
<p>*When I ask around locally all I get is " if theres a will theres a way" “you’ll make it work”. I need honest answers! *</p>
<p>That is so not true… There are so many kids who end up not being able to afford their favorite choices. There aren’t any tuition fairies. Often “making it work” means starting at a CC…finishing at a local university and commuting…or working full time and going to school part time.</p>
<p>Since you want honest answers…</p>
<p>Who gets scholarships…</p>
<p>There is a HUGE pool of applicants that have a GPA of 3.75+. (Seriously…it’s not unusual for 1/4 or more of applicants to have a 4.0. For instance, at Butler, over 50% of their freshmen had higher than a 3.75 in high school…so it’s likely that a large number also had a 4.0.)</p>
<p>There is a smaller pool of applicants that have high test scores (scores that would be in the top 10-15% at a particular school)</p>
<p>There is even a smaller pool of applicants that have both a high GPA and a high test score. These are usually the kids that get the bigger merit scholarships at the schools that give them. Test scores tend to separate the “men from the boys” in regards to GPA.</p>
<p>Your D’s test scores aren’t high enough for scholarships. An ACT 23 is only in the 69 percentile. A SAT score of 1590 is even lower. Is she going to test again?</p>
<p>In truth…a student with such scores often can’t do well enough in organic chem, etc, - which are needed to stay in the program.</p>
<p>My son’s GF had an ACT 29 (94th percentile) and straight A’s, is really having to work VERY HARD to get the grades she needs for pharmacy school. </p>
<p>Anyway…merit scholarships are very unlikely with such stats. </p>
<p>Do the state schools in Indiana give good aid? If so, that’s where she needs to apply. </p>
<p>DePauw is a private that sometimes gives good aid, but your D’s stats may be too low.</p>
<p>Test Scores Middle 50% of Test Scores First-Year Students </p>
<p>SAT Critical Reading: 530 - 650<br>
SAT Math: 550 - 670<br>
SAT Writing: 530 - 640
ACT Composite: 24 - 29 </p>
<p>These are the middle 50% of students at DePauw. As you can see, your D’s stats would put her in the bottom 25% so admittance and good aid might be unlikely.</p>
<p>Butler has similar mid 50 stats, so admittance/aid would be unlikely there as well.</p>
<p>SAT Critical Reading: 520 - 630<br>
SAT Math: 540 - 650<br>
SAT Writing: 520 - 620<br>
ACT Composite: 25 - 30 </p>
<p>IUP mid 50 percent of students…</p>
<p>SAT Critical Reading: 440 - 550<br>
SAT Math: 450 - 560<br>
SAT Writing: - -
ACT Composite: 19 - 24 </p>
<p>Admittance would be likely at UIP, but since her stats are not in the upper 25%, merit scholarships are very unlikely. Unless they give decent financial aid, it may also be unaffordable.</p>
<p>You D has a few problems…lowish test scores and an EFC that her parents can’t pay. Since she will already have loans in her FA package, she won’t be able to also borrow to cover her EFC.</p>
<p>If you and your spouse can’t figure out how to pay for the EFC (either thru overtime or maybe a second job), then your D’s options will be severely limited.</p>
<p>She may need to start at a community college and then transfer. At this point, her stats aren’t going to be an incentive for schools to give her good aid. :(</p>
<p>I agree, now that the scores are posted. Those are low for merit. Unless she retests & scores significantly higher, I don’t believe she will be competitive for 6 year or early admit pharm programs. I think she might be better off just doing a CC or a 4 year degree program in something else. If she wants pharm, she can take the right courses during her first two years & apply to pharm programs after two years. If that doesn’t work out & she still wants pharm, she can apply after she gets her undergrad degree. Both approaches will work, and both allow for the possibility of changing her mind.</p>
<p>Dream schools may be off the table, but to claim that her choices will be severely limited based on an EFC under $6K seems extreme…idk where you’re getting the idea that merit aid is the only financial aid available, but that is simply not true. Colleges are full of kids who depend on need-based aid and would be closed and shuttered if they shared your conviction that SAT scores are the only criteria for distributing institutional aid. A quick look at the common data sets for some schools will reveal their average and total merit vs. non-merit awards and can be very revealing. </p>
<p>My experience has been that if the kid has at least a few affordable schools (under $25K) and they tend to meet a decent amount of need, say 75% or higher, there’s probably a good chance that it will work out. Contrary to accepted CC “truths”, I have seen very good need-based aid offered by public schools to OOS kids, some awesome (90-95%) need-based packages from private $50K schools that don’t guarantee to meet need, and some where the scholarships given were not based heavily (or at all) on test scores…sometimes the kid just fits a particular profile for an endowed scholarship or the school is simply more interested in putting together an interesting and diverse class than in chasing rankings! Many colleges, including DePauw, also give a non-merit based scholarships - service/diversity/first gen, etc - and are increasing their commitment to need based aid. In any case, kids with good need-based aid can usually manage to trim their COA and scrape together a few thousand dollars a year from work, outside scholarships, tax credits, etc. to make it work. I would still advocate applying to a range of schools that have the programs that interest her and where she would be a good candidate for admission.</p>
<p>I agree that there are plenty of options, especially in terms of need based aid. I do feel that the 6 year pharm programs are probably not going to be options for this particular student. I actually think that opens up more options, to be honest. For example, DePauw does not have a 6 year pharm program … but if it might have good need based aid for this student, it would be off her radar if she is concentrating on schools with 6 year pharm programs. As you know, looking for this particular program limits the college search. In this particular case, I don’t think that is wise. I think concentrating on schools with excellent need based aid for this student would be the best way to conduct a search.</p>
<p>All this info is great!!</p>
<p>I realize that OT is most likely the direction she will have to take (and I believe she will be just as happy) I just want to make sure we explore ALL our options. We will apply for every scholorship, prepare for every option and wait it out. </p>
<p>Just wondering how close does that FASFA4caster estimate?</p>
<p>For the family with an uncomplicated financial situation (no trust funds or the like), it is pretty close (assuming you plug in the numbers correctly - especially taxes paid!).</p>
<p>Will it have been updated to reflect any anticipated changes in the 2011-2012 EFC formula yet? Are they still “simplifying” it (the " " because I have a horror of government simplification of stuff, they just seem to screw it up more times than not!)</p>