<p>Question for CayugaRed2005-</p>
<p>In An Open Letter to ChandlerCornell V. Williams, you posted that you never considered liberal arts colleges as a high school senior. Why was that? I would really like to know, because your posts always seem so balnced and knowledgeable. What do you think about LACs?</p>
<p>Cayuga? Are you still at work?</p>
<p>I read somewhere that the Classical education curriculum failed circa late 1800s. It’s because we were an industrializing nation, Yale & Harvard had technical scientific schools branching off, MIT was getting started, and Cornell was thriving…Johns Hopkins came into the mix with a graduate research oriented focus based on the German university model… and everything went from there…</p>
<p>Classical education curriculum wasn’t keeping up with the times… I guess the advanced skill set demanded in an industrialization era made a liberal arts education obsolete… Idk why Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore are not the AWS of HYP… Idk…</p>
<p>Why students want emphasis upon undergraduate study in the liberal arts anyways =)</p>
<p>It’s mostly a matter of preference. I wanted a dynamic and expansive campus that would surprise me at every turn I made during my undergraduate years. For others, an intimate and more supportive environment fits the bill better. </p>
<p>I must say that I was very much influenced by a friend of my mothers who’s daughter attended Colgate. She studied abroad and when she returned to campus she found that she had ‘outgrown’ the campus. This was at the time when I was first looking at schools, so the lesson sunk in. And I can’t say that I had felt that I had outgrown Cornell when I returned from my junior study at Oxford – if anything my time abroad motivated my interest in the biological underpinnings of economic history, something that I was able to pursue with much success when I arrived back at Cornell. (And credit Cornell’s resources in both evolutionary behavior and economic history for offering me such an opportunity.)</p>
<p>At Cornell, I really had the best of both worlds – an intimate college setting with less than 1000 students and extremely engaging professors – combined with an energetic research university that had people from all walks of life doing all sorts of interesting things.</p>
<p>Thanks, Cayuga!! I had that question nagging in the back of my mind since I read your chandlerbing post, and I had to find it to ask you about it. While I was waiting for your reply, I came across an old post by robin1621 I really liked:</p>
<p>"A good LAC is like a formal sit-down restaurant. Helpful waiters lead you to a booth, bring you the menu and explain the options available. There are several choices for each course, and each one will be nicely prepared and brought directly to your table. It’s very safe and cosy, and you’re unlikely to be surprised or disappointed by anything you order. But if you want something that’s not on that menu – or if you don’t like the people you’re seated with – you’re just out of luck.</p>
<p>A good university is like the midnight buffet on a cruise ship. There are literally thousands of choices, from sushi to enchiladas to chocolate truffles, and if you want something you don’t see on the buffet, you can ask them to whip some up for you. You can sit wherever you like, with whoever you like, and change seats several times if you want. You can return to the buffet to try different things multiple times. However, it’s your job to pick the food you want and your responsibility to bring it to your table. There are helpful staff members available to give you a hand if you need one, but you have to get up and find them and ask them questions. If you just sit at your table and wait, you’re going to starve."</p>
<p>Phead128: I’m sorry, what does AWS mean?</p>
<p>amherst, williams, swarthmore i think is what he meant</p>
<p>Thanks for your posts, sportychicsam14!! I especially like the one on the other thread, about the overgrown high schools.</p>
<p>Phead128: I grew up in Mexico, where there are no LACs, but since in America I have to go to college before attending medical, dental, or law school, I think I should get a good LA education while I’m at it…</p>
<p>i think it is good to round out your education and take LA classes…but going to a school dedicated to it may not be the best plan in terms of growing up</p>
<p>Thinking about the old post I quoted from Robin1621, it just occured to me that I never did like buffets as much as formal sit-down restaurants, because I prefer a hot, tasty course that was prepared just for me. The quality of food in a buffet just isn’t as good as that in a good restaurant…</p>
<p>True, sportychicsam14. You’re probably right.</p>
<p>no analogy is perfect…i dare you to find someone that says that cornell is mediocre…same for williams…both very good</p>
<p>i may be baised tho…i love cornell and chose not to appoly to LAC’s after much consideration…i just found that any good school has all the course offerings of an LAC but with the resources, diversity, and research as well…you can take whatever curriculum you want, but get those pluses also.</p>
<p>I just honestly feel that there is not a lot I wouldn’t be capable of learning or understanding if I had a good teacher that took the time to explain things to me, and that I would therefore do better in a more supportive environment. I am attending a public HS in Illinois, having attended a private one in Mexico before that, and I felt I learned better in the latter. But you certainly make a good point… I would have to grow up faster in Cornell.</p>
<p>elgin, there is no right answer here. Two excellent schools. Some overlap in personality and ambiance, but obviously big difference in size, which impacts the learning experiece and day to day life. </p>
<p>My son graduated from Williams (and coincidentally will be going to graduate school at Cornell). He stayed on campus all four years including all four Winter Studies and never felt he “outgrew” the community – academic or social. He got a lot of support from his professors, in class and out of class for recommendations and advice. Can you get that kind of personal attention at Cornell? Absolutely, but you may have to jostle for it. At Williams it is a given.</p>
<p>That isn’t to say that the academics aren’t intense at Williams. It is very rigorous and demanding, maybe even moreso than Cornell. However the support systems are in place. If they admit you, they help you succeed.</p>
<p>You should also think about brand name recognition. Most of the world has heard of Cornell. Williams is mostly unknown, not to people who matter like graduate and professional schools and employers, but if you want to impress your relatives and neighbors don’t choose Williams.</p>
<p>momrath, what is your son going to Cornell for?
To tell you the truth, I do want to impress my friends in HS by saying I’m going to an Ivy, but after researching Williams I am getting more and more afraid of wasting a great opportunity for a stupid reason…</p>
<p>Elgin, My son is getting a Masters of Architecture. Ivy prestige is one thing, but be aware that outside of the Northeast Williams is pretty much unknown. If you go there you have to be prepared for the blank stares. The rewards come later.</p>
<p>I imagine that most people would prefer to work in the tri-state area or in New England.</p>
<p>For those in the know, a claim to Williams is far more impressive than a claim to Cornell.</p>
<p>However, Cornell is more familiar and also commands a positive international reputation.</p>
<p>It’s a tragedy when pre-frosh turn down outstanding institutions solely because of misconceived notions of prestige.</p>
<p>LAc vs. university offer starkly contrasting environments. They each have their advantages and disadvantages.</p>
<p>At an LAC one is more likely to encounter issues with: scheduling limitations/ more cases of only one section offered of courses of interest, or course only given sporadically; fewer courses to choose from altogether, no offerings in a subarea that you get interested in, sparse offerings in a major field, resulting in having to take something you don’t really prefer at the end in order to complete major; etc. To the degree these issues occur, they are most likely to become issues towards the latter years. Also, you could find at some point eventually that you prefer a bigger environment, both of people and stuff to do. The place can more easily become “old hat”. And there may be a more distinctive prevailing campus cuture which could impact your social life there, possibly a great boon if you “fit” very well, but also possibly increasingly a negative to the extent you don’t.</p>
<p>Obviously many people are not negatively impacted by these features in equal measure, but they can more easily happen in that environment.</p>
<p>After LAC experiences of D1 & D2, I personally would not advocate for the combination of a very small college in a very isolated location. Bigger LAC, and/or with more courses and social options available via consortia or more ready access to other places of interest for diversion (though not right in them), maybe.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there are disadvantages to bigger university setting as well. A university will likely feel less personal, with bigger classes. So one has to decide which environment might work best for them, individually.</p>
<p>I am still amazed that people are still deciding among these highly contrasting environments at the end, as I would have thought they’d have decided this point before applying. But it is coming up with such frequency on cc now, that I have to acknowledge that many people these days are evidently not putting in such extensive deliberation and self-examination before submitting applications.</p>
<p>If you plan to go on to grad/ professional school, name of undergrad will not be a negative in the least. And Williams is highly regarded by those in the know. Which doesn’t mean you would like it there better, or it would do any better by you personally than someplace else. That’s an individual matter.</p>
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<p>Far more impressive? Give me a break. I know plenty of kids who chose Cornell over a bunch of other prestigious schools.</p>
<p>I just dug up this post I remembered, from several years ago, from someone who had transferred from an LAC to a much larger university; thought it would be good to archive it here, a recent thread on the topic . It is remiscent of some elements of D1s experience at another LAC (not williams, in either case) :</p>
<p>">in what ways did you feel stifled at the LAC?</p>
<p>Primarily because of the smaller number of options. These are all real examples I experienced. You want to take any classes in clinical psychology? There are only three, and they’re all taught by the same professor. You think that professor’s an airhead? Too bad. You want to take another political science seminar? You’ll be taking it with the same 15 students who were in your last political science seminar, whose opinions you’ve already heard all last semester. You want to be in a mainstage play this semester? Here’s your ONE choice, and it’s an experimental post-modernist adaptation of a Gertrude Stein piece. You want to do psychology field research as a sophomore? These are the four areas that are currently being studied by the faculty – hope one of them is actually related to what you want to do.</p>
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<p>Sure, it’s probably easier to get close to lots of them at an LAC. But knowing every single professor well is not equally important to everyone. At a university, you have to take the initiative to spend time with the professors that interest you most, so whether you form close relationships or get lost in the crowd is up to you. You also have more profs to choose from, and you can find ones in any field of study who really “click” with you – as long as you are aggressive about finding them! So which type of school is “better” just depends on you personality and priorities. "</p>