<p>@ soso, </p>
<p>You keep dodging his questions with snide remarks, and provide no sound evidence nor logical reasoning behind your claims. Can you provide data and an sound argument to back up any of you points, and similarly to counter fab’s claims ?</p>
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<p>Ridiculous. I’ve answered all his questions, over and over and provided data. Here’s the thing. I took F to the woodshed because he needs to understand that at the top there is very little difference between students. Hopefully he now realizes it. It’s also important for people to think of minority students as deserving instead of promoting outdated stereotypes.</p>
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The painful truth is that the SAT is VERY important to AdComs; they agonize about keeping their school’s avg SAT score up every year for USNWR. </p>
<p>Numbers can’t lie. It is not mathematically possible for selective schools which require the SAT to have a very high median SAT score without admitting mostly kids w very high SAT scores. For every kid w a score below the school’s median, they need a kid w a score above the median to maintain parity.</p>
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<p>This is not an answer to the question. This is just you resorting to your usual desperation tactic of waving your hands frantically and screaming, “I can’t be wrong…because I can’t be wrong!” Wanting to have an educated workforce in no way implies that you admit students who are not qualified for higher education.</p>
<p>And you’ve once again sidestepped the facts. There were between 100,000 and 147,000 black and Hispanic college-bound seniors who scored between 1350/2100 and 1650/2100 on the SAT. There is no reason for T2/T3 state schools to “routinely waive SAT and GPA requirements” for students who meet the requirements.</p>
<p>Your only way out is to say that 100,000-147,000 is not enough. But you’re not going to say that because then you’d be contradicting what you denied earlier: there is a gap in the middle. What are you going to do? More of the usual sosomenza: “I can’t be wrong! I can’t be wrong!”</p>
<p>Pathetic.</p>
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<p>Enough garbage. The top 1% of black and Hispanic students do not perform at the level of the top 1% of Asians on the SAT. They perform at the level of the top 10% of Asians. Your entire farcical argument rests on the assumption that, quote, “at the top there is very little difference between students,” implying that for example, the top 1% is the same across racial classifications.</p>
<p>It is not, and no amount of fact ignoring, hand waving, screaming “I can’t be wrong!” or pathetically misquoting the Princeton Review will change that. You are wrong, get over it.</p>
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<p>This coming from a person who thinks that T2/T3 state schools “routinely waive SAT and GPA requirements” for blacks and Hispanics? You’ve said enough nonsense here. You’re done. But thank you for voluntarily, of your own accord, showing everyone that you have no idea what you’re talking about, never did, and never will.</p>
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<p>I agree, but there’s so many kids with good SAT’s from every race that it just isn’t much of a commodity. The bigger the supply the lesser the commodity is valued. (simple economics)</p>
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<p>??? Your logic is backwards. The economics of having an educated workforce is the reason that state schools (T2&T3) will waive SAT & GPA. BTW. This is for borderline students and not for those who clearly aren’t ready.</p>
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<p>Again you make little or no sense. Post what I said and then tell me why it’s wrong with some consideration to logic and basic math. But as you well know, I will take you to the woodshed if you’re wrong.</p>
<p>Wow, I can’t believe you guys don’t have anything more valuable to do! Anyway, I appreciate you being here. Everytime I am feeling overwhelmed IRL, I know I can drop in here for a distraction. I have always been curious about these SAT percentile numbers. Here is what I came up with, although I don’t know what it means. Please correct my numbers and clarify the statistics for me. </p>
<p>Fab, I don’t know how to think about the “top percent” when there is a plus sign there. I know it means the number is some fraction of 1 percent, but I found a score of 700 easier to work with, as there are no pluses after the percentiles for that score. </p>
<p>Some additional thoughts</p>
<p>Three 700’s mean 2100, which until recently was felt to be compelling evidence about a students ability to succeed academically. I don’t know all the implications of scoring 710, or 720, or 750, or 800, other than you scored higher. I thought it was interesting that to my eye, almost as many “Asians” as “Blacks” took the SAT, although I think there are many more “Blacks” entering high school. I also think the average graduation rate among blacks might be significantly less, so maybe that explains some of it. Also interesting is that for most groups, all subtests are about the same, except math for Asians and males. </p>
<p>192,577 Asian, Asian American, or Pacific Islanders take the SAT, the top 1 percent, or 1925 score in the @ 800 on each section</p>
<p>217, 656 African American of Black students take the test, and less than 1 percent score 800 on each. I don’t know how many.</p>
<p>Scoring 700 is easier to work with</p>
<p>700 is 91, 75, and 89th percentile for Asian group, which out of 192,577 students is @17,3331 students for reading and writing, 48,144 for math</p>
<p>Among African American /Black students, 217, 656 take the test, 700 is the 99th percentile for all three, or 2176 students. Similar for most “Hispanic” subgroups, but a total of 272,633 students, with 2726 in the top percent. </p>
<p>Among “white” students, 852,144 total, 700 is @ the 94th percentile for math, writing, and reading, so 8521 students in the top percent.</p>
<p>Uh oh! Real life beckons!</p>
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<p>More Woodshed time for you. Your statement shows how vastly ignorant you are with understanding the law of large numbers. It doesn’t matter how many black and Hispanic test takers there are. The raw percentage does not matter. What does matter is quantity. The number of black and Hispanic test takers that score over a 2100+. The answer is 4903. This is the number. This is what matters. Everything else is just uncompleted math. (STOP FALLING BACK ON RAW PERCENTAGES WITHOUT CONVERTING TO QUANTITY, IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A SIMPLETON. </p>
<p>Btw have I mentioned that the SAT is dead!</p>
<p>Soso, you’re extremely obnoxious.</p>
<p>@Shrinkrap: I’m investing time on behalf of all minorities going to college. Many have worked extremely hard and obviously deserve to be there. Let’s have the world view them as equals. Let’s stop the I’m better than you nonsense and let’s especially stop the it’s harder for me nonsense. It’s not true, and it builds resentment and hard feelings. </p>
<p>BTW Thanks for the numbers</p>
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<p>Your computation is basically the same as mine. The numbers I used were 4,903 for blacks and Hispanics and 17,732 for Asians. If you sum your 2176 blacks and 2726 Hispanics, you get 4902. Since I focused on three 700s, I restricted the Asians to less than 17,732 (cf. your 17,333).</p>
<p>sosomenza completely ignores the facts so he can continue to scream, “I can’t be wrong! The top is the same for all racial classifications!” I think you know as well as I do that these numbers show a clear gap in SAT performance between blacks/Hispanics and Asians. More than twice as many blacks and Hispanics take the SAT as compared to Asians, but three times as many Asians score 2100+/2400 compared to blacks and Hispanics.</p>
<p>It’s perfectly fine to say that this gap doesn’t matter. It’s equally fine to say that this gap is because of tracking; though I strenuously disagree with perazziman’s fictional America, his conjecture that tracking partially (or even substantially) explains the gap is not unacceptable to me.</p>
<p>What isn’t OK by any means is to completely deny that the gap exists, as sosomenza has delusionally done so far. I am utterly confused as to why he so desperately wants to cling on to his illusion that there’s no gap at the top. It’s because there is that elites have to practice racial preferences, and it’s because there’s no gap in the middle that T2/T3 state schools have zero need to practice racial preferences.</p>
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<p>LOL. I give you the facts, you ignore them and scream, “I can’t be wrong!” Shrinkrap gives you the same facts, and you say “Thanks.”</p>
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<p>Why admit “borderline students” when there are so many (100,000-147,000) black and Hispanic students who meet the requirements? If states want to have an “educated workforce,” why not admit from and develop individuals who meet the requirements instead of individuals who are likely unqualified to attend and unlikely to graduate?</p>
<p>No answer, of course.</p>
<p>"@Shrinkrap: I’m investing time on behalf of all minorities going to college. Many have worked extremely hard and obviously deserve to be there. Let’s have the world view them as equals. Let’s stop the I’m better than you nonsense and let’s especially stop the it’s harder for me nonsense. It’s not true, and it builds resentment and hard feelings. "</p>
<p>But they do not read this thread! Most people don’t. Most don’t even come to college confidential. I think it is better to go tho where THEY are if you are trying to help them.</p>
<p>Fab; how about those standard deviations?</p>
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But they do not read this thread! Most people don’t. Most don’t even come to college confidential. I think it is better to go tho where THEY are if you are trying to help them.
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<p>There’s a lot of adults out there who do read CC and might who might be unduly influenced by bad logic and statistics. The harm is when they pass innuendo and prejudice down to the children.</p>
<p>@soso,
Since u regard absolute numbers to be more important than relative numbers (though I don’t understand why), shrinkrap’s numbers show that there are MORE asian kids who score above 700, than white+black+hispanic COMBINED. The extreme disproportionate number of top asian scorers (asians 5% of U.S. population, Census data) shows there is an uber-extreme gap.</p>
<p>You also commented that hard work should be rewarded. Well, it must really suck to be an asian kid w high stats who has a MAYBE chance of being admitted into a very selective school, as compared to other minority-group kid w high stats who has a CERTAIN chance of being admitted. Elite schools that practice stealth racial quotas, never see their asian population exceed 20% of student body. Elite schools that don’t play this game have much, much higher percentages of asian kids (e.g. Caltech).</p>
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<p>Again this sounds elitist. In America, everyone has a right to an education. It’s a fundamental American privilege not easily understood by foreign cultures or outsiders. BTW graduating is always nice, but college is about learning how to communicate and relating to a diverse population. The economic benefits of college go far beyond just graduating.</p>
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<p>The easiest way I can put it is that there is no gap because there is no space (at the elite universities). I’m sorry but I’ve explained it over and over in my posts to Fab. Please read them. 4903 top minority candidates have proven that they belong. This number in relation to available seating is what is important, not raw scoring differences.</p>
<p>Okay scoring percentile V. The actual number. Here it goes (I’m really trying)</p>
<p>10,00 kids from the fictional country of Barona immigrate to America and are eligible to go US colleges. They take the SAT. 100 kids score 2100+. The rest don’t do so well. In fact they do so poorly that the Baronians have the lowest scores and percentages on the SAT. </p>
<p>The top 100 apply to the elite colleges. Will they be considered on par with everyone else who applies? The answer is yes. Poor test takers of the same race do not drag down the good test takers. (THE GAP IS MEANINGLESS)</p>
<p>You know a light just went on. America is about individuality not about percentages of the entire race. I think concept of individual accomplishment is confusing a lot of people.</p>