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<p>When your claim is based on a gross misinterpretation of a student government bill discouraging the use of “illegal” to refer to people as “UC universities voting to criminalize the term ‘illegal alien’”, your claim loses credibility.</p>
<p>I think we have been guilty of something here. One problem with discussions of racism is that the discussion is immediately swamped by white people arguing back and forth and making it all about their own experiences. We should all take a step back.</p>
<p>I agree the topic has gone far beyond what the OP asked about, but that’s par for the course here on CC with hot topics.</p>
<p>I will say the arguing back and forth seems to be among posters of several races and ethnicities, as well as the near-normal set of posts from a certain handful of members who can’t seem to leave each other alone no matter what topic is being discussed.</p>
<p>immediately swamped by white people arguing back and forth and making it all about their own experiences. </p>
<p>Just the whites?</p>
<p>I am an honorary white. I tell people they are wrong in their thinking!</p>
<p>Btw, is that a White only trait?</p>
<p>I think cobrat might be whatever is above the whites since he represents all races and their historical conflicts on earth.</p>
<p>^That reminds me that I once heard someone say that Indians are exactly like Whites but their skin is darker.</p>
<p>Very interesting! So there really is a “little group” you don’t mess with…haha…</p>
<p>Some things to consider which may have been touched upon, but drowned out or dismissed by the usual suspects for various reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Racism still exists…and is not only a Black/White issue per OP’s D’s experience and others.</p></li>
<li><p>It’s a phenomenon not well understood by those who haven’t gone through it firsthand or knew someone close who has like a parent or close friend.</p></li>
<li><p>It is far more than open displays of racial bigotry. There’s also the power dynamic derived from being the dominant majority numerically and/or in a given society’s political, economic, and public life which reinforces and define the very identity/existence of the ones who are targeted. </p></li>
<li><p>Immigrants who arrived in the US from countries where they are the dominant majority, especially if they came after their formative childhood/teen years tend to be much less sensitive to these issues in the US because they either haven’t experienced them in their formative years and/or have accepted “that’s the way it is” and tell others who express pain/hurt to “suck it up”. The ones in this group forget that unlike they themselves, their children don’t have the benefit of growing up as part of a dominant majority and thus, not fully aware of difficulties they may experience as minorities. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>While some American-born minorities may also feel the same, it’s becoming less common within the last 2 decades as there’s much more willingness to confront/deal with the issues than was the case in the recent past. </p>
<p>Moreover, there are plenty of older American-born minorities who disagree with the “suck it up” solution and decided to confront the issue by doing things like joining in Civil Rights demonstrations back in the '50s and '60s or supporting them including Asian-Americans. However, the Asian-Americans who participated were second or later generation and from families who immigrated here before 1965. Important factors as their longer experience in the US as minorities and racism meant they were more aware of racism and its effects whereas many Asian-Americans whose families were post-1965 immigrants were much more inclined to assimilate ASAP and avoid/downplay this issue among themselves/their kids. </p>
<p>There’s also the factor that assimilation was practically impossible in many areas before the late '60s due to various discriminatory laws/practices in housing location, employment, bans on interracial relationships/marriage, etc. </p>
<ol>
<li>Those who argue along the lines of “Well, Asians do the same thing to Whites in their societies” forget </li>
</ol>
<p>A. That’s not relevant to the OP’s D’s situation…especially considering it’s taking place here in the US, not Asia. </p>
<p>B. A bigot who isn’t from a dominant majority like a Chinese waiter in a US-based restaurant isn’t going to have the same impact as a bigot who is from said majority within a given society, especially if they are in positions of power which may affect one’s educational experiences, employment, etc. </p>
<p>C. The argument’s further complicated by the factor of European/American colonialism(a.k.a “The White Man’s burden” during the period) and its associate effects…including Imperial Japan’s colonialism, which was encouraged in the beginning by many European powers especially Britain which had a long alliance with them in the early 20th century. </p>
<p>Those who cite Asian racism would have a viable point if we’re talking Chinese treatment of Tibetans or Japanese treatment of the Ainu and Koreans living in Japan. Nevertheless, that’s all irrelevant to OP’s D’s situation…along with posts citing the “Oh, but the Asians/[name your minority group du jour] do it, too.” Not to mention two wrongs don’t make it right…</p>
<p>^^^good post.</p>
<p>If only we could skip the “usual suspects” comments that are starting. After all, we are ALL in this mess. Limewine, many of us have been through many posts with each other- on the good side, that leads to what some new posters may see as unusual tolerance. On the bad side, you will see some display less sweet tolerance to some who come back and back and back with, uh, certain pounding styles. It’s not an in-group thing as much as something built over time.</p>
<p>Btw, as in many sorts of interactions, it helps to clarify “imo” or I think- and some other neat social conventions.</p>
<p>I find it far easier to skip past a certain member’s posts than to skip all the posts complaining about that member’s posts.</p>
<p>…and now I am guilty of the same so will leave it at that.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, I have been greatly appreciative that my original post has generated so much comment and discussion. I have gotten a lot of support and good information. Cobrat’s post #333 is, in my opinion, excellent. I am trying not to be discouraged by what has happened with my DD and her experiences at this school and to see it as a work in progress. Before she enrolled, we had met and talked to so many kids about the environment there and her visit was just wonderful: professors were prepared for her to visit, knew her name, and were very welcoming. I do agree that it is a few “bad apples” who are spoiling the whole bunch, but the truth is, unless all the good people stand up when they hear or witness this stuff and say “You can’t do that. We don’t act that way/say those things in this community” it will continue on. I should have realized that when a school talks so much about diversity, that is its weak point.</p>
<p>And in general, the good people have not been standing up and saying anything. My DD’s opinion is that kids just care too much about being popular, so when they hear another kid use a racial slur or see a minority kid kept out of a party (being told it’s “too full, sorry”) they don’t want to make a fuss and risk drawing attention to themselves. They don’t feel strong enough themselves to risk it, because they are not the target.</p>
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<p>They may also not have as high expectations in terms of not encountering racial discrimination (or where it is hard to distinguish from language barrier issues or other issues that new immigrants expect to encounter), or may find that the new country, even with the racial discrimination, is overall not as bad as the country that they left (despite being members of the dominant majority there).</p>
<p>Obviously, this does not apply to their native born descendents.</p>
<p>Your D is unhappy at School A due to a situation that is really not “academically” related. Many posters have suggested that she should find School B (where she may or may not experience a similarly unhappy situation). </p>
<p>Interestingly, we are not at all consistent on the forum as to which “happiness” is or is not worth pursuing.</p>
<p>"or may find that the new country, even with the racial discrimination, is overall not as bad as the country that they left "</p>
<p>There are bullies in every country and it has nothing to do with skin color. It is idiots feeling superior to some people. You can avoid them, attack them, rile about them and soon someone else shows up feeling equally superior.</p>
<p>sylvan8798, you make an excellent point. My DD and I both know that racism is, unhappily, everywhere. I am sure that every school, even schools known for their liberal environments (like Oberlin) have had their incidents. What is alarming in this case is the number of incidents in such a short time. Do you really think that’s normal and average? I think 6 or 7 things since August (if you don’t count stuff like people coming up to her in a coffee shop and shouting “Ni hap! Can you understand me?” and I am not counting that) seems like a lot. </p>
<p>I suppose one could make a case that because the school is a decent match for her academically, she should realize that that is what college is for and suck it up. But the ironic thing here is she chose the school not because it’s tops in her major, but because she wanted a friendly environment with lots of social activities, clubs, organizations and chances to volunteer right out of the starting gate. So as a kid who is a do-er and not a “sit for hours in the library, studying” person, this school seemed like an ideal fit. </p>
<p>I would posit that to be a good fit, a college has to fit both academically and socially. I know there are some kids who would be happy immersing themselves in their studies as an intellectual pursuit. That’s not my kid. She is smart and interested, but she is a people person and needs to be out with people, putting learning into action. </p>
<p>I think we need to find a school for her with more diversity so that when incidents happen, there is a critical mass of people who understand and not just a few people who shake their heads sadly and say “Yeah, we know. But this is the real world. You have to get used to it sometime.” That’s just SAD.</p>
<p>The question is, I think whether the issues she is encountering at this school are ones she will encounter at ANY school, to a similar degree. </p>
<p>If, for example, her problem was an obnoxious roomie or clique, transferring would do her no good, because one could encounter that anywhere.</p>
<p>Racism is something that she could encounter anywhere, also. But it is a matter of degree. Is she going to encounter the occasional bigot? Yes. Is she going to encounter people who are well-intentioned but ask questions that she finds tiresome or foolish because they have had little exposure to a broad range of people? Yes. (Expanding one’s horizons in this regard is part of the point of going away to college. And don’t overlook the fact that SHE may have something to learn about other people, too.) Is she going to encounter students who openly mock professors in class because of their accent or race? Highly unlikely at some schools. Is she going to be surrounded with students who sit silent when such things happen? Highly unlikely at some schools. Those are the schools where she would feel more comfortable. It doesn’t mean she will never encounter a bigot or a dumb remark, but it means that she will feel generally supported by her peers. I think that is worth pursuing.</p>
<p>OP, I cross-posted with you. I support the conclusion you come to in your last paragraph. :)</p>
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<p>If skin color determines status in that country then I’d think a bully from a high-status group would have more power than a bully from a low-status group…no?</p>
<p>sylvan makes an excellent point. In the ideal world, a school should be an academic, financial and social fit. If its not a financial fit, its typically pretty clear that, if its not affordable, other options unfortunately need to be pursued. Oftentimes the FA that is offered in a student’s second or third year is not sufficient to allow the student to afford to stay, and if a reconsideration is not successful, a student may have to leave.</p>
<p>That is difficult, but its a different kind of difficulty when a student finds him/herself at a school that is either an academic fit or a social fit, but not both. This is a challenging bifurcation to navigate. It sounds like the OP’s dau is trying to negotiate this. But while again, in the ideal world, it would be wonderful if the good people would stand up to the bad apples, in reality that is very hard for some young adults to do, as they are also finding their way in the new school setting, trying to establish relationships, and probably don’t want to make waves. Not everyone is as strong as we would like them to be.</p>
<p>IMO, the person who should be learning to stand up to these people and politely and diplomatically tell them that those comments are not appreciated is your daughter (if she hears/sees evidence of these biases or slurs). Its a very important skill to learn. Sometimes people need to have their biases brought to their attention by the focus of that bias. And again, hopefully, in the ideal world, the good apples will rally to her support. But again, IMO, fwiw, she will find the most success if she learns to be the leader of the challenge to the comments or behaviors, not wait for others to do it for her.</p>
<p>** crossposted with the OP a few posts above. Same thoughts.</p>