<p>Under normal circumstances, I am perfectly fine with reporting myself as white. I guess what I’m saying is, would either action hurt my admissions chances in any small way?</p>
<p><a href="%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13523123-post241.html%5D#241%5B/url%5D">quote</a> …I guess what I’m saying is, would either action hurt my admissions chances in any small way?
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<p>Not designating your ‘race’ on the application is the only way to guarantee that ‘race’ will not be part of the evaluation process. Many have availed themselves of this opportunity.</p>
<p>A new guidance letter from the Department of Education </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/edu/documents/guidancepost.pdf[/url]”>http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/edu/documents/guidancepost.pdf</a> </p>
<p>and the New York Times reporting on the letter </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/education/us-urges-campus-creativity-to-gain-diversity.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/education/us-urges-campus-creativity-to-gain-diversity.html</a> </p>
<p>are of relevance to this thread.</p>
<p>What does “limited in time” mean in the context of the guidance letter coming eight years after the Grutter decision?</p>
<p>“Ah, but when you look at the white and Asian faces, why aren’t you thinking athlete, legacy, son of billionaire or senator, from Alaska or N. Dakota? There are many more of those kids than blacks, Hispanics or Native Americans.”</p>
<p>There are many more of Asian American athletes, legacies, sons and daughters of senators, from Alaska or N Dakota than URMs???</p>
<p>I am learning something new every day.</p>
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<p>This "counter"argument is such a crock. It’s nothing but, “Hey, why are you giving me flak for doing something wrong? That guy over there is doing something wrong as well, so blame him instead of me!”</p>
<p>What exactly is “guidance” from the President and his Administration?
Does it have any teeth?</p>
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<p>As a legal matter, the officials in the executive branch of the federal government are supposed to follow the law as it is written by Congress and interpreted by the Supreme Court. So strictly speaking, the guidance has no authority for making a new announcement of what the law is. But as a practical matter, the Department of Education is the enforcement agency for federal law on nondiscrimination in education, so the guidance letter serves as a notice to colleges with the message “This is what we won’t bother referring for prosecution or other enforcement if we hear you are doing it.” The content of the guidance letter, as reported in the New York Times article (and as I agree after reading it) is an EXPANSIVE list of everything that is permitted for a college to do by way of being race-conscious in college recruitment and admission policies. It is possible to read the Supreme Court decisions more narrowly and emphasize different issues in college admission policies–as the guidance letter from the previous adminstration’s Department of Education did. It is still possible for private actors (for example, college applicants) to use the federal court system to seek a more definitive, possibly narrower, description of which activities are permitted under a general statutory framework of nondiscrimination by race in education.</p>
<p>Here’s a new journalistic report I just saw in an online discussion elsewhere in cyberspace: </p>
<p>[Some</a> Asians’ college strategy: Don’t check ‘Asian’ - Yahoo! News](<a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/asians-college-strategy-dont-check-asian-174442977.html]Some”>http://news.yahoo.com/asians-college-strategy-dont-check-asian-174442977.html)</p>
<p>As everyone knows by now</p>
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<p>Every time I am reminded of this fact, my blood boils. Maybe if we threw a race riot or two, maybe throwing in a crippling general strike to US research and development industries, people would finally stop taking us for granted and we would finally gain a voice.</p>
<p>it seems that the harder we work and the more we try to play within the system, the more the system works against us. Why then, should we be held to obedience to this racist society?</p>
<p>I really wince when I think of how this very sordid chapter in our country’s long sad history of racial bias is going to be viewed by history books. It’s pretty sickening. I especially am saddened by the liberal apologists for the racism against Asians by colleges. </p>
<p>ps</p>
<p>Not Asian, not married to an Asian, kids not Asian.</p>
<p>Re: [#243](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13533325-post243.html]#243[/url]:”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13533325-post243.html):</a></p>
<p>[U.S</a>. Urges Creativity by Colleges to Gain Diversity](<a href=“White House Pushes for Weighing Race in Admissions - The New York Times”>White House Pushes for Weighing Race in Admissions - The New York Times):</p>
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<p>Presumably, Holder is referring to self-categorized ‘racial’ diversity. Is there social science evidence to support this assertion?</p>
<p>Also, food for thought on the unintended consequences of social policy with good intentions: </p>
<p>[Citizenship</a> education, democracy and racial justice 10 years on](<a href=“(PDF) Citizenship education, democracy and racial justice 10 years on | Audrey Osler - Academia.edu”>(PDF) Citizenship education, democracy and racial justice 10 years on | Audrey Osler - Academia.edu):</p>
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<p>Fortunately for us, science is revealing that an old ‘rule’ offers the optimal solution for our conflicts:</p>
<p>[Generous</a> players: game theory explores the Golden Rule’s place in biology](<a href=“http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_4_166/ai_n6151880/]Generous”>http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_4_166/ai_n6151880/):</p>
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<p>“Is there social science evidence to support this assertion?”
and, if so, how much, and of what quality?</p>
<p>I wrote my UG sociology experiment paper on the tension bet cooperation and competition 35 years ago- who knew how topical it would become.</p>
<p>Yes, diversity is crucial to the genome.</p>
<p>Altruism and cooperation are seen is several species, and is postulated to be a factor on survival of these species. Language and community-building and hierarchies are seen to be promoters of these behaviors.
On the other hand, the brain is all about like/unlike categorization. We are analog thinkers, but have a bit of a digital approach when push comes to shove, but will re-categorize as needed based on experiences. It is how we are hard-wired to survive. In fact, some cultures have the insider/outsider thinking at their base and pervasive throughout- it is a natural way of thinking.
With categorization, data turns into useful information, then into knowledge, depending on the way it is stored, used and understood. We simplify our experiences based on categorizations. When we have new experiences, we can easily change these structures because they are now stored in simplified ways. That is a form of learning. Cultures can easily dictate how we see things but setting up the questions we ask when we seek patterns.</p>
<p>I sense that learning in diverse communities SHOULD promote re-classfication of ethnic and racial categories. But does it?
And is it contradicted by race-aware policies in admissions, as these philosophies float around the environment and color people’s ideas about each other, why one got in, why one may have or gotten needed a preference, why some are so smart?
I feel that this is where the slippery slope begins… For this reason, I am against race aware admissions. but I could be wrong, and am waiting for the evidence.</p>
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<p>I wouldn’t be surprised if schools who receive lots of applications from any one group are going to be tougher admits for those candidates, all other things being equal; but I’m not sure that this represents some sort of cosmic injustice that requires a civil rights movement on behalf of Asian-identified students who want to get into HYPSM. If these students broadened their horizons and applied to the many excellent LACs, for example, they might find that their accomplishments would be appreciated and rewarded with acceptance. There are several categories of people who are at a statistical disadvantage relative to their numbers in elite college admissions: females, non-athletes, people from New York or California, working-class whites. Why focus on Asians and call it racism? There are plenty of absurdities in elite college admissions, but why be so outraged when the fact remains that a good student can get accepted to a good college if he spreads a wide-enough net? Going to HYPSM is not a civil right for anyone.</p>
<p>What is the best available current evidence on what categories of students, “other things being equal,” are most disadvantaged in applying to which colleges? First of all, how can we define and identify disadvantage? Second, how can we define and identify different categories of colleges? Who publishes peer-reviewed research on this issue?</p>
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<p>Please don’t be patronising. I’m talking about college admissions as a whole; even Asians applying to community colleges and local four-year schools are affected. College admissions is only one symptom of the “bamboo ceiling” of this diseased society.</p>
<p>Similar discrimination affects hiring at banking, finance, science, pharmaceutical development …</p>
<p>“even Asians applying to community colleges and local four-year schools are affected”</p>
<p>Can you clarify this thought? Are you saying Asians face discriminatory admissions in non-selective college settings?</p>
<p>The subtle knife in all of this is that Asians outperform other racial groups. This produces resentment and unwillingness to acknowledge that they are discriminated against.</p>
<p>Follow-up on the question form [#252](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13542901-post252.html]#252[/url]:”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13542901-post252.html):</a>
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<p>Two sides of the issue:
[ul][li][Diversity</a> and Higher Education: Theory and Impact on Educational Outcomes](<a href=“http://www.temple.edu/tlc/resources/handouts/diversity/Gurin_and_Hurtado.pdf]Diversity”>http://www.temple.edu/tlc/resources/handouts/diversity/Gurin_and_Hurtado.pdf)[/li][*][Is</a> Campus Racial Diversity Correlated with Educational Benefits?](<a href=“Results For: Cas_execsummarypdf]is Downloads | FREEPeopleSearch.com”>Results For: Cas_execsummarypdf Downloads | FREEPeopleSearch.com)[/ul]</p>
<p>John,</p>
<p>It is unfortunate that this type of discrimination goes on, but if you continue to insist on having this “us vs. them” mentality, and think that “having a race riot” is an appropriate reaction, you are going to have an even harder time integrating into American culture than you already are.</p>