<p>lake: I don’t think that will happen. Honestly I don’t understand how anyone can get through virtual school without being distracted by the possibility of doing more entertaining things… like reading CC threads. lol they must have good self control.</p>
<p>lake42ks If in 10 years or so we go to college online, race won’t be a factor at all.</p>
<p>Ew. That’s sooo not happening.</p>
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<p>I didn’t say culture-based clubs, I said lets ban race-based clubs. Do Filipinos in America have a different culture than Chinese people in America? If not, why the club? If so…</p>
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<p>If you are considering a name change, I’d say you have to look into your state’s laws on how it works. In Georgia, I had to make my case in front of a Judge and run a notice in the newspaper for three weeks. (That’s a lot less scary than it sounds. My case was greatly helped because as the Judge was reading my petition out loud, he mispronounced my name and then saw that a reason I gave for the proposed change was to prevent mispronunciations.)</p>
<p>For the second question, I don’t know. tokenadult has repeatedly posted that if you decline self-identification, adcoms are not supposed to guess, but whether that’s true in practice…only they know.</p>
<p>When my kid asked the question to omit race I provided the following to say it will make no difference:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The parents are shown as being born in another country and have diplomas from there.</p></li>
<li><p>The school transcript clearly states the race.</p></li>
<li><p>A lot of the essays need to avoid talking about specifics that are unique to my kid but point directly to being Asian.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Having said that - my opinion is that if you are not proud of who you are and are worried about being a statistic in some college’s admission process, then don’t apply there.</p>
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<p>Somehow a college that interviews essentially all of its applicants in person still manages to report to the federal government that 12 percent of its enrolled undergraduates are “race/ethnicity unknown.” </p>
<p>[U-CAN:</a> Harvard University](<a href=“ucan-network.org”>ucan-network.org) </p>
<p>This rather surprising empirical fact probably relates to the legal fact that colleges are not required to guess student race or ethnicity. </p>
<p>[Colleges</a> Really, Truly Aren’t Expected to Guess Student Ethnicity](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13396869-post5.html]Colleges”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13396869-post5.html) </p>
<p>There are definitely students who decline to answer the question who get into great colleges. No one is required to answer the questions (because that is what the law on the subject says). </p>
<p>[Not</a> Answering the Question Is Okay](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13396997-post10.html]Not”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13396997-post10.html) </p>
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<p>Are you saying that you have looked at your own high school transcript, and you have seen your race indicated there? Many states, as a matter of state policy, do not record any such thing at all on high school transcripts, but I think I have heard that some schools in some places are under federal court orders (because of previous practices of segregation in those places) to track student “race.” What exactly does your transcript say? </p>
<p>I am not entirely sure what a college does if a student submits a high school transcript indicating race as part of a college application. My hypothesis is that what is done in such a case varies from college to college. Because many colleges have high percentages of enrolled students reported as “race/ethnicity unknown,” </p>
<p>[Great</a> Colleges Admit Many Students Who Don’t Self-Report Ethnicity](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13396860-post4.html]Great”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13396860-post4.html) </p>
<p>there either must be quite a few high school transcripts that don’t indicate student race or quite a few colleges that ignore such high school transcript entries in the admission process, or both. </p>
<p>Basically, if a college systematically disfavors applicants for exercising their legal rights under federal law, the college is risking a lawsuit. That wouldn’t be a smart thing for a college to do.</p>
<p>A repeated comment that has come up in this long thread is what one subset of the population might do if people in that subset of the population think they are disadvantaged by current policies. What has worked in the past is suing through the legal system. My civil procedure professor in law school had HUGE admiration for Thurgood Marshall, a civil rights lawyer who eventually became a justice of the United States Supreme Court, because he knew that Marshall’s work for the NAACP on legal cases was very difficult. A lawyer practicing civil rights law in the south in the 1950s had to know his civil procedure cold, because any tiny mistake in the pleadings would result in a case being dismissed by hostile judges. Thoughtful, professional lawyers may still have more to do to bring about a society in the United States in which we stop classifying our fellow human beings by inexact “race” categories. </p>
<p>Mass protests also play a role. I think one of the most effective tactics of the civil rights movement of my childhood (as I have written in earlier iterations of this FAQ and discussion thread) was for black people to have mass demonstrations in which they had signs saying I AM A MAN. Really, it’s that simple. We are all human beings here, and we all deserve to be treated like human beings. Resorting to violence to advance that principle is a distinctly bad idea. But going on record to say that that is the principle at stake should have a lot of persuasive value to Americans like me old enough to remember the earlier civil rights movement. </p>
<p>[Why</a> I Care about This Issue](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13396909-post7.html]Why”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13396909-post7.html)</p>
<p>Not reporting is one’s legal right.
I wonder of it is one’s legal right to have it expunged from any and all of one’s records and documents…
There seem to be so many different, conflicting laws and codes and practices, which are also constantly changing, depending on the flavor of the day in the locality…
I remember reading so many things about the census, including that it is in minority groups’ “best interest” for individuals to identify everything about him/herself on the forms…</p>
<p>Anyway, I am just so sad that race and ethnicity are still regarded as such important factors in a person’s life: how he/she is perceived, how it correlates with other factors…</p>
<p>I believe that educational institutions do try to lead the way in creating opportunities for all, yet I questions why race exactly needs to be an identifying factor, and whether this actually perpetuates stereotypes or race based attitudes…</p>
<p>There are just so many conflicting aspects to this debate:
Racial pride
Racial diversity
Cultural diversity
Cultural pride
Tendency to a mainstream culture
Melting pot
Mixing of races via inter-marriage and resulting children’s “race” and “ethnicity”
Stereotyping based on looks, names, activities
Acceptance that there are cultural trends and patterns
Importance of education in providing opportunities
Is education a right?
Is a free market in education preferable over government regulated education?</p>
<p>I am very pro-education.<br>
I tend to think it is a very important opportunity for citizens to develop themselves and become better members of a society.
Not everyone is.
And, I could be wrong about how important it is!!</p>
<p>Basically, having this whole debate is very healthy, as long as we hear each other out. And are willing to change our attitudes if something very convincing is said. That is a kind of education.</p>
<p>One of the problems with mass non-reporting of racial identity is that the federal government then has no way to determine whether racial discrimination is occurring in admissions. For example, if John Chan suspects that his last name and membership in his high school Chinese Club were the cause for his rejection, there is no way for him or the government to determine the racial makeup of the student body or applicants to evaluate whether this is/has been happening. The student body could be entirely White in appearance while the applicants are 80% non-White, but there would be no useful evidence of this. The racial question was instituted to monitor admissions and keep the colleges from discriminating.</p>
<p>Hmm, Bay, do you really think that these days colleges, who trumpet diversity as a major goal, would select against applicants based on their race or ethnicity if these numbers were published?? I realize that in principle this is the case, but what about the practice?</p>
<p>Have there been any complaints where these statistics were used to disprove or prove?</p>
<p>Can Asians use these numbers now to see what is happening, to make their case?</p>
<p>The word “discriminating” is interesting: as an intransitive, it is actually considered innocuous, i.e. the act of distinguishing. When it is followed by “against”, then it is becomes a negative act of exclusion.
I am saying that, while these concerns are well-intended, the execution may actually be a case of “discriminating” (identifying by one aspect that is different from someone else) being in actuality a perpetuator of subtle, attitudinal “discriminating against” (stereotyping and thereby excluding).
I hate the idea that we are parsing and troping people by ANY single aspect of their person-hood. People are so much more than their race. Yes, I do understand that race can be a part of one’s identity, but I believe that the degree it is should be up to that person.</p>
<p>Simple solution: Just dont check Asian</p>
<p>Quick video explaining this:-
[Asian</a> college admission strategy: Don’t check Asian - YouTube](<a href=“Newest asian college admission strategy: "Don't check Asian!" - YouTube”>Newest asian college admission strategy: "Don't check Asian!" - YouTube)</p>
<p>Going back over the recent pages, I’d caution against a whiny finger pointing at “others” for perceived stereotyping- and a host of slanders, slurs and “oh poor me” complaints, bundled in aggression, stereotyping of others. It’s one thing to feel pain and another to inflict it, under the guise of telling it like it is.</p>
<p>When I read: *No, I bring diversity because of my interests, my viewpoints, my talents, and my weaknesses. I bring diversity as an individual, * I wonder what “perfect” world you think exists out there. If only I could “pass.” Is that what it is? Is it as simple as changing your name? Now you get (and keep) great jobs, can afford the lifestyle you covet, never step on a sidewalk crack, no sick children, no threats?</p>
<p>A piece of me wants to shout, get real! Life’s tough. For all of us. Even the so-called privileged to be born white and attractive sorts endure countless pains and challenges- far worse than being part of the 90% who get rejected at some college. There is no magic formula. Each of us has to try to do the best we can with the cards we are dealt.</p>
<p>A friend used to say, when all else fails, all you can control is your attutude. Think about it. We are the downtrodden? I know he looked at me funny because xxx? I didn’t get into that college…well, must be prejudice-?</p>
<p>All this bosh about legally changing your name, hiding your reality, pretending it isn’t so-- all the absolute certainty that there is admissions prejudice simply because they heard of it or their relative is underpaid or someone looks at them funny or, or, or. How much blame really goes to others and how much is your own insecurity?</p>
<p>My mother changed her last name- and admiited it was to hide her ethnic identity (but also a pronunciation issue. She picked a nice “upper crust” surname.) Oh, great. Did it change her? Make her more or less able or worthy? Nope. Did she spend her whole life agonizing about her background, despite some of the joys? You bet. What a shame. Was it still her old, ethnic name when (eons ago, of course) she got into an Ivy? Yes. </p>
<p>Life’s tough. Life’s full of potholes. What’ important is what we can make of it, despite occasional s**t. This is what I told my own kids. They have some pretty severe label challeges they could fall prey to - and I didn’t want them to wear the “victim” mantle. Nor cast blame (except when they were certain another person or process was based in evil intent.) I wanted them to see how they could bust stereotypes and make positive contributions.</p>
<p>Anyone want to try this perspective?</p>
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<p>yes. </p>
<p>Filipinos have a mix of American, Spanish, Islamic and Malayo-Polynesian cultures.</p>
<p>And, of course, it is equally suspect to think all whites or WASPs share similar culture, advantages and even failings.</p>
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<p>I asked the question because I wanted to know whether you believe that people in America have different cultures by virtue of their race. It sounds like you think they do.</p>
<p>I do not assume that Filipinos and Chinese in America have different cultures. They may be different or the same, especially if they grew up as next-door neighbors.</p>
<p>i’m a third culture kid. do you think I subscribe to that notion? </p>
<p>heritability has both genetic and environmental transmission, you know.</p>
<p>anyway, you miss my point. I’m talking about self-replicating cultural elements (aka memes) which are transferred between members with a shared cultural identity. The best way to propagate those memes in a friendly environment is to form cultural or ethnic clubs, but accept all races. naturally.</p>
<p>I see the “race/ethnicity unknown” category is by far the majority category reported for Howard University in Washington DC, </p>
<p>[College</a> Search - Howard University - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board) </p>
<p>according to data received by the College Board. I have no hypothesis about what that means.</p>
<p><a href="%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/13606316-post469.html%5D#469%5B/url%5D">quote</a> One of the problems with mass non-reporting of racial identity is that the federal government then has no way to determine whether racial discrimination is occurring in admissions…
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<p>How would a college, so inclined, be in a position to discriminate on the basis of ‘Race’ if every application was submitted without designating ‘Race’…as they are allowed to do by law? What information would the institution use to do its ‘racial’ discriminating on if candidates denied them that information?</p>
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<p>What is this? “Perfect” world? “Pass”? Lifestyle I “covet”? What, have I crossed some unspoken line for daring to want to be treated without regard to my racial classification? Are you saying that I’m supposed to check the Asian box? That if I don’t and furthermore anglicize my surname, I’m a faker like Jay Gatsby, wishing for a Panglossian world?</p>
<p>I don’t know why you’re so obsessed with making sure that people who qualify under arbitrary definitions as members of racial classification X self-identify as racial classification X. What’s so wrong with viewing individuals as humans?</p>
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<p>The same information that some people claim colleges use now to discriminate, when the race box isn’t checked: Name, parents’ names/education, birthplace, recommendations, interviews, photos/facebook/google, high school, geography, clubs, etc. </p>
<p>I am not in the camp that is convinced that unlawful discrimination is happening now. But if the race question is eliminated, then those who suspect will have an even more difficult time proving their cases. The federal race inquiry in college and workplace applications exists to protect applicants, so that admissions/hiring practices can be scrutinized for unlawful discriminatory patterns.</p>