race relations on college campuses

Parents Forum
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<p>There was a WSJ article, Saturday, titled:
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“Race on Campus: Beyond Obama, The Unity Stops -After Campaign Rallies, Black, White Students Go Their Separate Ways”
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<a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120977670689464343.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120977670689464343.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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But after classes -- and after the occasional Obama rally -- most black and white students on college campuses go their separate ways, living in separate dormitories, joining separate fraternities and sororities and attending separate parties......
"It's much harder to be a white person and go to an all black party at Duke than vote for Obama......"On a personal level it is harder to break those barriers down."</p>

<p>"Both communities tend to be very judgmental," "There is pressure to be black. The black community can be harsh. People will say there are 600 blacks on campus but only two-thirds are 'black' because you can't count blacks who hang out with white people."

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<p>Is this the atmosphere on most college campuses today or unique to Duke?</p>

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<p>
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"It's much harder to be a white person and go to an all black party at Duke than vote for Obama......"On a personal level it is harder to break those barriers down."

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<p>I don't know about everyone else, but I've found black people much more accepting when a white person decides to sit with them at a lunch table than white people are when a black person goes to a white table (for example). There are just too many preconceptions and stereotypes floating around a black person to make it easy.</p>

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<p>Suave - Really? I've found it to be the complete opposite.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I don't know about everyone else, but I've found black people much more accepting when a white person decides to sit with them at a lunch table than white people are when a black person goes to a white table (for example). There are just too many preconceptions and stereotypes floating around a black person to make it easy.

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<p>That's kind of a broad thing to say. Would you (presuming you're white) feel good about sitting down at a table with several black guys wearing chains, straight billed hats, and giant jeans? Probably not. Would a black guy feel good about sitting down at a table with white guys that have confederate flags and flannel on? Again, probably not. Some may, but the majority would not.</p>

<p>Now, would you feel good about sitting down at a table of black people who dressed similar to you? Probably. And the same goes the other way around. The thing is, when you say "all black party" or, to a lesser extent only because most college campuses have more white people than black, "all white party" you're generally talking about the kinds of people in the first paragraph. People who aren't like that don't generally have all black or all white parties. Again, there are exceptions, but that's sort of the point. You can't isolate race in discussions like this.</p>

5

<p>I found this article fascinating Ttaxi. I can hardly believe that in 2008, 40 years after the death of Dr. King, we still have separate tables in the lunchroom. when I was in college almost 30 years ago, I wrote an article for the black student newsletter about how interracial dating was a matter of choice. I was shunned by the black community for a while after that. I was surprised to hear my daughter say that when she visited Northwestern and was assigned a black student as a host that she said she didn't really get to talk to any non-black students during her weekend there. Her host only hung out with other black students. My daughter has been attending very diverse schools since first grade, and she's accustomed to having friends of all colors. I really hope that doesn't end when she starts college. I understand that one can share a special bond with someone by sharing the same ethnic heritage, but I can't stand the idea that those from her own culture would look down on her for having friends from other cultures.</p>

6

<p>
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Would you (presuming you're white) feel good about sitting down at a table with several black guys wearing chains, straight billed hats, and giant jeans? Probably not.

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<p>I'm a brown Latino with European (Spanish and Portuguese), Indigenous, and Black blood in me like many many other Latinos. I don't dress like that, I have a completely different culture, but I do sit with black guys dressed like that, I hang out with them, etc. </p>

<p>Being dressed like that is just a style; a confederate flag is way different and I cannot stand to be around white people with that kind of attitude. </p>

<p>The only time I've ever found groups of black people that wanted nothing to do with me was when I lived in Los Angeles. That's because tensions between Latinos and Blacks are very bad there, and as a result, Black gangs are constantly going around killing Latinos and Latino gangs are constantly going around killing Blacks. So obviously I was not trying to set myself up to get jumped and killed walking home from school. </p>

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[quote]
People who aren't like that don't generally have all black or all white parties. Again, there are exceptions, but that's sort of the point. You can't isolate race in discussions like this.

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<p>I have to disagree there. Sometimes it's just a matter of being more similar in interests rather than race, which may lead to a black table or a white table. </p>

<p>It might be hard for a white person to get up and go sit at the black table; but I find that white people just tend to psyche themselves out, not because the black people won't let them sit. Other than that, I see a lot more white kids sitting at tables with mostly black kids than black kids sitting at tables with mostly whites (unless there's just a lot of different races sitting at the table).</p>

<p>I say this because I sit at a table with people of several different races, and for some reason some of these white kids I sit with have no problem sitting with other races, being friends with them, etc. but are constantly making comments in which they seem to have no idea are sparked by stupid stereotypes or are insensetive at all. For example, "why are those mexicans always talking in spanish?" (when it's a table of Puerto Ricans and Dominicans), or "there go the black kids again," (because they're all laughing, they just happen to be louder because there's a lot more kids sitting there), or "typical" (when Latinos wear shirts/backpacks/etc. with the flags of the countries of their heritage or when some blacks/latinos stand up for each other and friends in a fight). </p>

<p>When I left L.A. and moved elsewhere, I was very surprised at how nice blacks were to me. Many whites were nice as well, but there were many that just didn't seem to want anything to do with me, and not necessarily because they knew me. </p>

<p>My most loyal friends have all been black and latino, even though I might spend more time with some white kids because of higher level classes that I have that tend to have very few minorities. It's not even just because I'm Latino that I can get along with blacks better; I came from a neighborhood where being with some black kids could be a complete disaster. </p>

<p>My first day was spent with nearly all white kids. Lunch time came around, I didn't know anyone so I had nobody to sit with. I sat at a white table with some of my classmates for a little bit, but I was left out of everything; the black table had no problem welcoming me to my surprise, and there the Latino table was right next to them. Latino isn't even a race; there are people of all races that are of Latino ethnicity. In the US, we call basically everybody who even looks remotely black an African American. So it's hardly like they're all of the same race. </p>

<p>This is not to say I haven't met any truly pleasant white people; there are plenty, but I find them to be unfortunately rare among many whites who many may not consider racist, but do have many preconceptions programmed into their heads (and it's not their fault at all!). </p>

<p>Here's the difference:</p>

<p>I talk to a white kid who is on the golf team about me having played a bit over the last couple weeks, and he says "Since when do Mexicans play golf?" half-seriously half-jokingly, not even trying to be mean. </p>

<p>I talk to another white kid who is also on the golf team, and he starts rattling off about all his golf clubs, what is the good stuff to buy, how I should try out for the team next year, etc. </p>

<p>They're both nice people, but there's a clear difference to me. </p>

<p>Wow, I wrote an essay! I'm going to stop now.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the insight, Suavemente. </p>

<p>Personally, I would consider someone who said "Since when do Mexicans play golf?" to a Latino/a person whom they barely knew to be not only ignorant, but exhibiting racism, even if--making the most generous assumption--it is largely unconscious racism. As you say, it is an attitude that's programmed into their heads. My late in-laws were fond of making offensive remarks in a "joking" manner, and then complaining that one had no sense of humor if one objected to these statements about Jews, blacks, Catholics, et al. They knew perfectly well what my opinions (and my husband's) were, and this was their way of taunting us in a way that they hoped would preclude a response. (It didn't. IMHO, silence= assent.)</p>

<p>People have to know each other very well and have well-established mutual regard before they can engage in teasing remarks based on personal attributes, whether they be race, religion, ability, or appearance. Clearly, this person didn't know you at all.</p>

<p>When I was in college, there were black tables in the dining room. Here's my experience: It's the beginning of freshman year. A black upperclasswoman is sitting at a table, and two innocent white freshmen who live on the same hall join her. They all talk. Gradually, more black students arrive at the table, and the new arrivals pointedly will not speak to or look at the white students. The original upperclasswoman is clearly uncomfortable and torn, but eventually the "enforcers" dominate. The white freshmen finish their meal and slink away, having been "taught" that they should not sit at a "black table." </p>

<p>Black students almost never partied with white students: black students had their own society house, and congregated there. (There were no sororities, and only one special interest society house to which a tiny minority of students belonged, so no one else had a separate venue in which to gather.) This tended to reinforce the racial barriers, because it made it harder for students to become real friends across the racial line. I can understand the perceived need of the black students to have a place that was "theirs," but this suggests that the rest of the campus was NOT "theirs" as much as anyone else's, which I think is unfortunate. I can understand it, but the problem is that it becomes self-perpetuating. </p>

<p>Another interesting fact was that although all freshmen had doubles, the only black/white roommate pair involved a student from South America, who apparently didn't know that she should request a black roommate. (Interestingly, they are still friends, over 30 years later.) There was only one freshman in our dorm with a single, and she was a black student for whom they apparently could not find a black match.</p>

<p>There was a lot of pressure from the black community for black students to become comparatively militant, and disassociate themselves from everyone else, of whatever race or background. Part of it was probably the times: This was the 70s. I also don't mean to put all of the burden for this on the black students. I'm sure there must have been racists and separatists amongst the white students, but they were forced to be very low profile because those opinions were not accepted. And of course, any white person who complains about this kid of separatism has to put themselves in the other person's place: one should never underestimate how hard it is to walk into a room of people who are conspicuously different from you. Day after day.</p>

<p>Now <em>I've</em> written an essay! :)</p>

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<p>I am being too lazy today to read all the essays :)
I want to say to entering first years: start taking note guys. Everyone is so used to their comfort zone, you need to move away from it. Part of college is learning new experiences, understanding the difference in others.
There is has been a lot of threads cropping up on "I want to make new friends". This is the exact question popping up in every new freshman's head irregardless of race, religion, etc.
So CCers, you are smart people right? Go on make friends, look past your comfort zone, look past race, ethnicity, color, creed, take that first step, and say Hi! Make those lifelong friends you crave for :). The key is: understanding the differences and sharing the common interests.</p>