<p>As far as the student who took 12 AP classes and was ill-prepared for college, despite scoring 5’s, I’m not sure how to respond to that. In her last 2 years of high school, my daughter enrolled in 10 AP classes (scoring 5’s) and only 3 non-AP non-college classes. She’s only a freshman, but so far she seems to be doing reasonably well in some pretty tough classes at a very selective college. She also completed a few post-AP college courses in high school and did very well also. I think the AP program at our school is pretty good, and I think the teachers are competent and doing a good job. But in most cases, I don’t think they are going way above and beyond the scope of the AP curriculum.</p>
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<p>AP teachers can be quite bad, especially at lower performing schools. The AP Calculus teacher at my school would sometime consult me for questions about the material. And even when the teachers are knowledgable, they aren’t always trained or used to teaching college courses and so their expectations might be off.</p>
<p>Anyways, this film kind of bothers me, because it’s so focused on the most ambitious at the best students. Which is fine, but then it makes it seems like their problems are the only ones that matter. Like I said, most people graduate high school without having taken an AP class or an AP test, so when the discussion is about AP classes, you’re already removing most high schoolers out of the picture.</p>
<p>The “Race to Nowhere” film is very thought-provoking. I saw it several years ago along with some parents and students from our nationally ranked public high school and it was disturbing to hear their comments. Many students at our high school take more APs than they really want to because they feel pressure to maintain a competitive class rank. More than 95% of each graduating class attend college and there is fierce competition to gain admission to elite and top ranked colleges and universities. Colleges and Universities all very proudly display SAT/ACT scores and GPAs on their websites and most are eagerly on the path to appear more selective in admissions, feeding the frenzy for students to perform well in every undertaking.</p>
<p>The movie discusses how pervasive cheating has become at many high schools and this was confirmed by students at the movie screening at our school - students routinely copy homework and pass along exam questions via cell phones, etc. Annual surveys taken by our students confirm this - large percentages of our students admit to cheating just to keep up with their peers. Our guidance counselors shared that they see many students who are crumbling under the pressure to compete and are depressed and anxious and can’t turn to their parents because they are often the source of much of the pressure. </p>
<p>The movie interviews teachers who have reduced the amount of homework and seen grades improve in their classrooms, and higher AP scores.</p>
<p>One of our school leaders implemented a couple of things several years ago which really helped our students reduce stress - added a mandatory study hall for every student and created a daily “activity period” so that students can more easily participate in a club or activity that they enjoy or see a teacher for extra help during the school day…</p>
<p>I don’t think the film is “stupid”. I came away from the movie feeling that it was important for my kids to have some balance in their lives. They enjoyed participating in sports and music and art, and they did not attempt to take the maximum number of APs they were eligible for, so that they could still enjoy those other creative things. They did each spend a semester or two as an academic aide for a teacher they enjoyed rather than fill their schedule to the brim with electives. They got into great schools with great scholarships despite dialing it back a bit. </p>
<p>I highly recommend seeing the film. Although it may not reflect the exact situation in every community, it does get you thinking! </p>
<p>“added a mandatory study hall for every student”. So, because some students cannot handle the maxiumum course load, my kid should be forced to drop out of the music or arts class she enjoys? Why don’t we just dial back everything and just offer all remedial level classes so that no student at all will ever take a “lesser” schedule than any other student. How would you feel if that were on the table at your school? That’s how I’d feel if someone forced my child out of a class she wanted and into a study hall she didn’t need.</p>
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<p>Just because someone’s dumb, doesn’t make them barren.</p>
<p>@mathyone and @ucbalumnus, the fact that AP classes don’t mean that much or vary in quality is precisely why I think the race to rack them up is so pointless. If a kid at a lower performing high school is taking poor quality APs, what is the use of APs at that particular school? . </p>
<p>I’m not saying that no one should take an AP, only that AP isn’t the gold standard so many high-performing, competitive schools (and their students and parents) think it is. And even in top performing high schools, what sets AP and honors classes apart from regular classes is very often the work load. (And yes, I know the discussions are better in the honors/AP classes). But it’s the work load, which doesn’t really add anything, that is causing some of the issues discussed in the film.</p>
<p>I agree that offering badly taught APs or putting clearly uprepared students in AP classes is counterproductive.</p>
<p>" it’s the work load, which doesn’t really add anything". I’m not sure I understand this statement. Is reading books and doing problem sets not adding anything? I didn’t think the work load on my daughter’s APs was particularly excessive, except perhaps for AP world, although I think it’s somewhat unavoidable with a broad survey class. </p>
<p>Work load is something that is going to depend on the student. Students who are more capable and have better work habits will get through it much faster than those who aren’t/don’t. I’ve heard parents complaining that their students were up until 2 AM in middle school working on some assignment that took my kid an hour. I don’t think my daughter was ever up that late even with all her AP classes. I’ve been over at a student’s house, seen them “working” on an assignment while simultaneously laughing about the post their friend just made on facebook which they were glued to the entire time, and also watching TV, and heard them complain how late they were going to be up with that homework.</p>
<p>@mathyone - cool your jets!! </p>
<p>Although our high school added a mandatory study hall, they did not eliminate another period to do it - the course load and graduation requirements did not change at all - it is still the most rigorous high school in our state - ranked #1, and students can still drown themselves with APs if they wish, or take music or art, etc. They took a small amount of time from existing periods to create it. Students are very happy to have a little time to get homework done or study for an exam - they feel it has done a lot to reduce stress. The study hall has been great for students - it has not dumbed anything down in any way or taken opportunities away from students. It simply made it easier for students to manage tough workloads and enjoy their ECs more, because it completes less with getting homework completed. </p>
<p>Sorry but we had a very vocal and well-organized group of parents at our school trying to ram mandatory study hall down our throats because their kids could not handle a full load and they did not want them to look bad in comparison to kids who could, so they wanted the optional full class length study hall to be mandatory for all students. Thankfully the school administration did not agree to this. Our middle schools have a short mandatory daily study hall and my kids reported that the vast majority of the kids just wasted the time.</p>
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<p>Of course, useless busywork is not good in any course (high school or college, low or high level). But it should not be surprising that some more advanced or rigorous courses have higher workloads than less advanced or rigorous courses.</p>
<p>@mathyone I’m actually kind of liking the new enforced 40-minute study hall at DS’s school. They have it only on W & Th when they have 3 long classes. So, they didn’t have to drop a class, though admittedly 6 periods plus an optional 7am zero period is less than many schools. </p>
<p>The options for the study hall include: study/homework, required tutorials for kids with a D or F on the last progress report, or tutoring (for community service hours) in a subject you’ve done well in and have a teacher recommendation to tutor. There are less official options, too. The engineering academy DS17 is in requires 9th and 10th to be there one of the study hall days so that they can have a 2-hour class that day. DS’s AP Physics B teacher from last year is offering a flipped class to study AP Physics C Mech once or twice a week during study hall, because she never gets enough kids to make it a formal class offering. So, DS is doing that the other day. I’ve heard that band and some other groups also use the time differently.</p>
<p>In spring, when DS has a sport, there wil alsol be the advantage that he’ll only need to miss one class rather than 2 if a travel game is W or Th. </p>
<p>This is at least the third support period plan that has been proposed here, and the first to be approved, so a lot of thought has gone into it.</p>
<p>Along a similar line, but in book form: The Overachievers.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Overachievers-Secret-Lives-Driven-Kids/dp/140130902X/ref=la_B001H6NY8Q_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411782785&sr=1-1”>http://www.amazon.com/Overachievers-Secret-Lives-Driven-Kids/dp/140130902X/ref=la_B001H6NY8Q_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411782785&sr=1-1</a></p>
<p>Question: If college admission didn’t gauge students via “course rigor,” etc., would college-bound student be knocking themselves out as much? Or, would they moderate? And, would moderation damage them for their future development? </p>
<p>@Ynotgo, the parents at our school were pushing for mandatory 3.75 hours of study hall per week. It would have completely knocked out one of the class periods that many students were using for electives such as band. This was being pushed by parents of students who were heavily involved in non-school-based activities, and who were already able to take study hall as an elective, so it wouldn’t change their life at all–the entire point was to keep other people’s kids out of the school-based electives. This measure would have crippled our school’s very strong arts program as many students would no longer be able to fit the arts classes into their programs, and you certainly wouldn’t see kids participating in multiple arts as we have now. I see kids on here posting schedules with almost no electives and I feel sorry for them.</p>
<p>@dyiu13 You nailed it! As soon as colleges change their admissions criteria, our high school students can get back to being high school students. Until then, it is a race. Unfortunately.</p>
<p>In our district, honors courses were completely eliminated 3 years ago. The choice is “Advanced Academic” or preAP/AP. The Advanced Academic courses are geared towards the lowest performing students, the AP towards the highly organized overacheivers. This worked out OK for DD1 who thrived in AP and graduated val of her class, but DS has had a harder time. He struggled in 9th and 10th and fought to stay in the upper level track because dropping down was such a huge step down (my younger daughter was horrified to hear a teacher tell them that they would get an A in Algebra if they remembered to bring a pencil to class everyday- she switched up to PreAP level) but eventually he matured and learned how to organize his time and get the work done. We would have loved an honors option that would have allowed him to master the course work in depth without requiring the endless race to force feed the kids 100 percent of the AP content in hopes of them doing well on the test.</p>
<p>I also agree with @dyiu13 that the ‘course rigor’ element is a factor. Also, we live in a state with auto admit for the top 10 percent (7 percent for the state flagship) so that also drives this- got to have that multiplier to be competitive, and can only get it with AP.</p>
<p>We have had some great AP teachers…and some really bad ones. Just wish we had real choices so each of the kids could choose what is best for them.</p>
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There are probably better criteria but the elites by definition will always be hard to get into. I don’t think that the problem is with the schools but with the applicants in a lemming-like rush to elites. Parents and students should consider CTCL LACs (admit rates of 60+%) as well as regional LACs and flagships and directionals. How far up the USNWR list your school is, really doesn’t mean much in the long run; it is the interest and dedication of your work. If you arrive at elite U burned-out, stressed, uncreative, unhealthy and embittered then what is the point?</p>
<p>I saw Nowhere and Superman within weeks of each other when they first came out and really disliked Nowhere. If I remember correctly, there were almost no people featured who weren’t on the coasts, and at least one of the moms interviewed seemed clueless about her role in her kid’s overscheduled life. I thought the film was really poorly done.</p>
<p>I like you @snarlatron. You take the words out of my mouth. Guess I’ll go follow another thread as I’m redundant here. ;)</p>
<p>Are you sure that there aren’t any overloaded kids in the major cities in the Midwest or the South? </p>
<p>One would imagine that there are also upper-middle class and upper-class kids who obsess over attending one of NWU, UChicago, WUSTL, Notre Dame, Carleton or one of Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, Rice, Tulane, Georgia Tech respectively…</p>