<p>Has anyone seen this documentary? We've been debating stress at prep schools for some time on this site. This documentary apparently makes the point that for many teens in affluent communities, stress is part of the program. It can begin at very young ages.</p>
<p>I haven't seen the movie yet, although I would like to.</p>
<p>I was not aware of the documentary and to be quite honest I don’t want to see it because I have enough on my plate. I’m already well aware of the impending challenges faced by our children and grand children which have been created by none other then our selves. My town and surrounding communities are extremely competitive and my kids are well aware of it all. My attitude is for them to continue to just keep doing their best plus some and they will land on their feet in the end and hopefully give something back as well</p>
<p>An interesting article. </p>
<p>I don’t know what to think about this. First, I actually think that, while it’s important for children to have time to play, be bored, use their imaginations–and that their time can be overstructured–in general, it’s good for teenagers to be busy. </p>
<p>I like that my kids have lots of homework (as long as it’s not busy work), tests to study for, athletics year-round, other ec’s. Teens and idle time don’t often equal positive, creative growth–in fact, from where I’m sitting, they often find counterproductive, silly, mean, and harmful ways to occupy themselves. </p>
<p>We don’t live in an affluent area–and here, I just don’t see kids who are like the ones described in this article. In my world, the busiest kids are the happiest kids. Quite frankly, I’ve got students who could benefit from a little stress in their lives!</p>
<p>Second, I wonder if all of this isn’t really about the failures of a system that is too reward based. Study for silly statewide tests at the expense of solid content, so our school will get funded. Give out rewards for best tuba playing, or your band’s no good. Earn a 4.5 average without learning anything meaningful because worksheets are easier to grade than essays, and parents won’t complain as long as their kids have good report cards. Encourage kids to apply to 20 schools that don’t fit them because it makes the college look better in US News. </p>
<p>Here’s my thesis: Hard, intrinsically meaningful work=good stress. Mind-numbing, relentlessly repetitive work that makes someone or something else look good=bad stress.</p>
<p>ditto classicalmama.</p>
<p>I find it hard to relate to the people in this article. I guess c-mama and I live communities where “what, me worry?” attitude is still the norm and expectations are too low instead of too high.</p>
<p>My son needed some stress, especially academic stress, in his life. Had he stayed at home, he would have continued to cruise along getting awards for not doing anything, the only stress coming from worrying about his friends. At least now he has learned (the hard way) that most people have to work hard to do well and finally, he is finally in an environment were he is “most people.” Of course now he’s probably thinking that he shouldn’t have been careful of what he wished for!</p>
<p>DAndrew quoted a Chinese saying on another thread that I think is apt. But I’m too lazy to go find it now.</p>
<p>I think I get it. Basically, it’s the age old question of what do you really want your kid to get out of an education and out of life?, kinda what’s the end point and what are you willing to sacrifice to get it? Because although achievement is its own reward, it often comes at a price.</p>
<p>I really wanted an ivy league education, a professional job and a good income, and was willing to put in lots of hours and join the rat race of people who wanted the same thing and was willing to compete for relatively few spots.</p>
<p>Kids in my high school class who were just as smart chose a different path and decided to go to the local state school where it was almost a guarantee if you had a pulse you could get in and pay very little tuition. They picked a major where they could get decent work for decent pay, and in the end decided it wasn’t worth the anxiety and stress to compete and basically put their energies into other things that mattered more.</p>
<p>With so many kids competing for the same thing, I do often wonder if my kid will end up in the same good liberal arts college regardless of how many ECs he does or how many APs he takes or if he just graduated from his local ps vs a rigorous BS. How much is too much? Instead of a race to nowhere, I wonder if it’s a race to the same place?</p>
<p>I think this is where the dictum of studying for enjoyment, not grades comes in. If our kids work hard because we think that’s of value and do what they enjoy anyway, then they’re out of the “race” altogether and they are just kids enjoying themselves. But I can understand for some families and students who think they have to compete by outdoing everyone else and can reach their goals only by being pefect, how this can lead to stress.</p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - Race to Nowhere Theatrical Trailer](<a href=“Race to Nowhere Theatrical Trailer (Original) - YouTube”>Race to Nowhere Theatrical Trailer (Original) - YouTube)</p>
<p>Link to trailer for those interested. I’m jamming on some work right now, but will come back with my 2¢ on this topic and my admittedly snap judgment on the film.</p>
<p>redblue…, the old hard work, high stress formula once was a grand winning combination. Today, with a national unemployment rate at 9.8%, as stated by the U.S. Dept. Labor (but it is really closer to 20% or even 50% for ages 18-24), this grand old formula, although it builds character, no longer assures a job, whether a good one or bad. </p>
<p>Today, I spoke to a lawyer whose son is No. 1 in his class during his third year at a solid regional law school. He told me that his son had received no job offers and anticipates receiving none. The lawyer told me that he wished he could cut a deal with his law firm so that he could quit and his son could take his place. </p>
<p>Economic times are tough and they are getting tougher. What is the winning formula in this economy? Answer: Find out where the money is coming from and where it is going. To ride this wind, our kids still need education and lots of it. They now have to be very careful in selecting the right education; they need to be much more careful than we were.</p>
<p>So…just more hard work and more stress. </p>
<p>And then you die.</p>
<p>Well, isn’t this what Japanese, Korean, Sigaporean and Chinese students have been doing for decades? And I believe in our country it is still a game for a small fraction of students living in affluent neighborhoods. I wish there were an easier or “healthier” way to tap the potential of the young people to the fullest so they can be prepared “to the teeth” for a tough world out there as toombs61 described, but this is the way it is. On the other hand, I am not that pessimistic when it comes to the future of these vetted young people. All of them may not come out as number one or go to an Ivy League college, but unlike in college admission, there are plenty of “openings” in life where they can live a prodcutive life.</p>
<p>Toombs, you may be right. And typically I would probably work that way as well, try to maximize my chances by working as hard as I could.</p>
<p>But still others might say, are signing up for all those AP classes really going to get me further than if I don’t or how many AP classes do I really need?</p>
<p>It’s helpful trying to read the tea leaves or sort out where you THINK the money is coming from and where it is going, but who could have predicted Face Book and other things that make 20 year olds billionaires?</p>
<p>You can’t predict. So in light of that, I think the advice is choose something you’re passionate about, or find how you can contribute and make a difference which may bring a job as well as happiness. I also disagree that times are harder now. The economy cycles. “It was the best of times…it was the worst of times” is universal and applies to almost everyone.</p>
<p>I had a longish post about why I have zero interest in seeing this movie all written — complete with a rousing “You got on this escalator by choice, so don’t complain that you don’t like the ride” diatribe — then I switched browser windows trying to source a link to embed and poof, it was gone. I even gave ops’ post above a shout out…</p>
<p>Here’s my argument in a nutshell:</p>
<p>The NYT piece states that "Vicki Abeles, the middle-aged mother and first-time filmmaker who made ‘Race to Nowhere’, picked up a camera when a doctor said that her then-12-year-old daughter’s stomachaches were being caused by stress from school.</p>
<p>'I was determined to find out how we had gotten to a place where our family had so little time together…"</p>
<p>She didn’t need a camera and several hundred thousand dollars of her and her backers’ money to find out how her family had gotten to that place. All she needed a mirror.</p>
<p>Now here’s a documentary about high schoolers that I really want to see (this was the link I had been looking for when I lost my original post):
[YouTube</a> - Louder Than a Bomb documentary](<a href=“Louder Than a Bomb - original documentary demo - YouTube”>Louder Than a Bomb - original documentary demo - YouTube)</p>
<p>RBGG, I wish you were right: economic times are no harder now than anytime before. To maintain such a position, however, runs contrary to almost every economic indicator and financial analysis about the US today, unless you are looking at the public sector, esp. the incomes of federal employees (which incomes are disturbingly now, on average per employee, about twice the incomes of the employees in the private sector). We must understand the economic winds, no matter how harsh, and cast our sails accordingly. Currently, they are bitter and cold for most Americans. RBGG, if you don’t feel the pain and bite of howling winds, then you are, I maintain, one of the blessed and lucky few.</p>
<p>Seven, that’s a much more nicely put nutshell of the rant I wrote and then deleted. If children are too stressed and families aren’t spending enough time together, then it’s the family’s job to re-prioritize, not blame everything on society and schools. </p>
<p>Case in point–when our boys were little, we flat out told them that hockey wasn’t going to be in their futures, even though they loved skating and it’s the cool thing and a nicely recruitable sport. Why? Because we weren’t going to spend every week-end for five months driving around to (two different!) hockey rinks all over the state. Or miss church every Sunday because of someone’s practice. Family first. No stress. And hey, my kid got into prep school anyway…</p>
<p>This is why I so dislike the “My kid has to got to prep school to get into a good college” vein of thought…it just breeds priorities that cause stress rather than happiness. My kid goes to prep school to learn and think and grow exponentially more than he would at home. Those values mean hard work and a certain amount of stress, but it’s the kind of stress that leads to maturity, not stomach cramps. The good college is a side effect. </p>
<p>I ranted. Sorry.</p>
<p>Toombs, when or others disagree, try not to go on the attack and make it personal with someone.</p>
<p>I’m not saying I haven’t been affected by the downturn in the economy, I’m saying that the question will always remain, how much effort should I put into something to get what I want? What will make me happy? Do I need to join the rat race? Where is the race headed? i.e. there are plenty of people who have decided to follow their hearts and passion instead of boohooing about the economy. What about the guy featured recently on CBS who walks the world bare foot, making it his living to get shoes for kids in need all over the world? What about the 20 year old billionaire who followed his passion to develop a social network, featured on 60 minutes?</p>
<p>If its not recession, it’s inflation. I’m not sure the answer is to try to predict where the money is heading. People do poor in bad economies, people do well in bad economies.</p>
<p>I’m not sure just putting one’s head down and piling up AP classes is what brings success.</p>
<p>@classicalmama: Don’t get me started on the sports on Sunday thing. When I bring this up with parents and kids in the youth group I supervise, I say “What would happen if you said 'No, sorry, we can’t make that practice/game…we have church.” What’s the worst thing that would happen? The coach would frown or maybe even bench your kid for a game? Either way, so what?</p>
<p>There’s this quote from the “Race to Nowhere” trailer where a student says something like “In America, if you don’t earn a lot of money, something went wrong.” I certainly am not filling my daughters’ heads with crap like this…</p>
<p>“This is why I so dislike the “My kid has to got to prep school to get into a good college” vein of thought…it just breeds priorities that cause stress rather than happiness”</p>
<p>so agree with this; we pulled our younger daughter out of public school NOT to allow admission to “good colleges” but so that she would learn how to think in a certain way that our very bright “A” older daughter did not…now that it is over, and our younger daughter is going to attend a college that many in our overcompetitive NJ town have never even heard of, someone had the nerve to say to us a couple of weeks ago,…</p>
<p>“so that’s what you sent her to private school for? so she could attend an unknown, non-prestigious school far away from home?”…smile and nod, smile and nod…</p>
<p>I hope we can keep this discussion going. It’s more reflective than comparing “stats”.</p>
<p>I give the movie’s production crew credit for not licensing it as a commercial release, but requiring it to be show to small groups, with a psychologist present. The comments are fascinating, as they break down into two camps, either “Yes, this is our life, and it’s miserable,” or, “We’re falling behind, the kids are wimps, suck it up.” A split between misery and fear.</p>
<p>We don’t do the sort of things profiled in the movie (as far as I can judge from not having seen it.) In our community, though, I do feel we are swimming against the stream. I get very worried when I read and hear about teenagers going without sufficient sleep for long periods of time. I don’t know of any research which shows that that’s a healthy pattern of behavior to set up in adolescence. In many ways, it’s eating the seedcorn. I also think that the most successful people I know Did Not Do This sort of thing in high school. I do know a fair number of families whose children lost interest in things which were fun in 1st grade. </p>
<p>I think triaging is an essential skill to learn. You decide what’s the highest priority thing to do, and you do that. You learn to judge what you can sacrifice. A famous day school (according to a parent) purposely loads up its freshmen with amazing amounts of work. When the parent complained to his child’s advisor that there’s no way anyone could do the work, the advisor replied, “That’s the point. They have to learn to prioritize.” When I read of high school students with academic and EC loads which lead them to sleep 3 hours a night for weeks on end, I think that the schools in charge of those children have never heard of prioritizing.</p>
<p>^^Which reminds me of a question I asked earlier in another thread, which is about the possible ways of being “nurturing”. I think that ideally school counselors/advisors should monitor where the high schoolers are in terms of workload and physical/psychological being, work with the students and make adjustments so they are sufficiently challenged and stretched without being burnt out. Obviously it varies from individual to individual and takes a great deal of work from the advisors if they truely want to help out. In boarding schools, this is largely left to the students themselves to learn “the hard way”. Many of them do eventually get important lessons and good skills in prioritizing and managing time, but some have to pay the price of being over-stressed, less sleep and in some cases bad grades. </p>
<p>As for the PS and local day students, parents can take the role of the advisors mentioned above, but sometimes they are either incapable of doing that because of lack of knowledge and training, or they are so caught up in the competition and become obsessive in driving the kids to do more without paying attention to their well-being.</p>
<p>@Rodney: That overcompetitive NJ town you mention doesn’t happen to start with a “P” end with an “n” and rhyme with “Mince Fun”, does it?</p>
<p>@Periwinkle: I don’t think I fall into either of the camps you mention above. Like you (and I think ops and others, too), I see it all around us but we have chosen to go mostly against the stream. To buy into/participate in the beliefs/systems only as much as they fit with our family’s priorities/values.</p>
<p>In the post I had written that disappeared, I raised this point: Don’t people move to certain areas of the country, to certain areas of specific states and counties just so that they have access to “good” (whatever that means) schools that will enable their kids to go to “good” (whatever that means) colleges, and go on to live a “good” (whatever that means) life?</p>
<p>As hinted at in the Times piece, this world (largely of affluence and privilege) is the flipside of “Waiting for Superman” and it comes with its own set of baggage. To my eyes, the filmmaker and her subjects are in the proverbial hell of their own making. It’s like a someone who buys a Maserati and then does nothing but complain about how much it is in the shop.</p>
<p>That said, I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting our kids to have a good life. How many parents hope for a hand-to-mouth existence for our children? The real issue is that I think too many people have bought into a idealized/glamorized notion of “the good life” as opposed to “a good life” (which can and should mean different things to different people). So when some parent like Rodney makes choices for/with his family that go against the norm because they feel right for his family he gets the strange look/judgmental tone.</p>
<p>Seven dad: no, not that ubercompetitive NJ town; another one…there are so many around these parts…</p>
<p>@rodney: Too true and a bit sad, IMO. But as I noted in my ranty post above, it’s (hopefully) not unexpected. The Garden State is after all, home to nine of the top 100 “richest” counties in the country, with the county where “Wince Fun” is located ranked a shameful 6th in the state! ;-P</p>