<p>gouf,
I just do not respect a parent who did that. Sorry, I am not interested in supporting a film attempting to show what is wrong with our education system by a person with such poor judgment. She could even be considered a hypocrite.
I do, however, agree that there needs to be continued awareness and questioning about the level of stress and perfectionism and busy-ness for students. By people with integrity.</p>
<p>Sorry if this is off-topic… When will the DVD come out? My cousin lives abroad and wants to see it.</p>
<p>Just to address one small point: I know Loomis looked at congruent research recently and decided to move the start of the academic day back from 8:00 a.m. to 8:30. Reports this year from students and faculty alike are that classroom morale and efficiency have definitely benefitted.</p>
<p>PelicanDad,
St Paul’s has done the same thing. It started with Winter Term a few years ago.
Nice for the kids!
Private day schools seem to all start by 8:00am, though, and often do require a commute of 15-30 min. So these kids do have to get up very early. Many sleep on the way to school.
(I have had one of each!)
Those first period classes can be really tough…
There is so much pressure on kids (and families) who DO have the resources- it is insane. The kids at BS are in some ways protected from all the “infinite” options that being home can offer. But I do think it harms their chances of getting into tippy top colleges- their EC’s are much less unique and varied. Even though they are so busy, and, unlike many local private HS kids, very self-determined in a their pursuits, which I am not sure the college AdComms really appreciate.
Anyway, there is pressure everywhere now- this very board is a product of that and breeds it, too LOL.
But I am a huge fan of having teens be busy. Down-time is very important, but not too much of it. Being productive and pursuing interests in a social arenas is optimal for their needs and desires.
It good to see a kid develop a sense of when too much is too much, when it is time to take a break, spend some alone-time, to change gears. And also to develop self-discipline in order to stick to something. And to learn to defer gratification. And console themselves after disappointment. And figure out who they are. Basically, these are more likely to happen at BS. But it is risky- because they actually NEED to learn these things just to survive. A kid at home can get by without ever learning these things.</p>
<p>4 hours a day in the car? …words fail me. </p>
<p>among the many good things about boarding school for my daughter has been removing the 45 minutes it took to get to any activity (and of course the 45 minutes to get home again), as well as the 45 minutes each way to school. </p>
<p>D being D, she has filled up the time with a) poetry society b) writing for the newspaper c) drawing on her own d) arts and crafts projects e) new sport f) new private music lessons…I may be missing something but I don’t think her EC list is suffering from not having me there to push her. </p>
<p>plus more time to talk to friends, more time to sleep, and more time to really focus on homework. </p>
<p>It kind of hurts to say it, because I killed myself to build activities for her - trying my best to replicate boarding school without having to send her away - but you can’t get blood from a stone when it comes to time.</p>
<p>This thread suffers from a flavor of “kill the messenger.” If the woman who produced A Race to Nowhere drove her kids 4 hours a day to school at the expense of her children, yes, she made some a poor choice. But that does not diminish the valid and thought provoking message of the movie, which by the way, I feel rings true for BS kids. There is a tremendous amount of pressure, homework and sleep deprivation there, which some parents on this site diminish as “keeping busy” or learning to prioritize–mainly to validate their choices. With BS kids, there is still much truth that these teens–still be learning about life–need a little more balance, support, and opportunity to dream more than they need to be stressed over schoolwork, college prospects and figuring out their next move. This is the reality of many high-achieving teens today, acutely so at BS, and it is sad/scary/ tough to watch as a parent.</p>
<p>@erlanger, I don’t disagree with you, which is part of why when we went looking for schools, we were asking the question for ourselves, “Is it possible to find a boarding school where admins realize that kids are kids and that overscheduling is not the only way to point them toward the straight and narrow?” The (tentative) answer we got was, “Yes it is possible.” So we’re going to try it out. But I’m really happy that the local alternative, should BS not work out, is a strong day school that views character as something to be cultivated, not forged, and creativity to be in the eye of the beholder, not the molder. ;)</p>
<p>@erlanger, I do disagree with you that it’s only “kill the messenger.” If it’s true that her children were facing 4 hours of commuting time every day, that’s a material fact she should have presented in her film, especially a film on the effects of stress on children. Remember, she kept returning to her own family’s experience of stress in the film. Not to include that part of their daily schedule was deceptive (if indeed it’s true.) </p>
<p>I think the college Common App causes much of the stress high school students face today. Allowing students to apply to so many schools effectively multiplies the applicant pool, while the number of colleges doesn’t increase. </p>
<p>Denise Pope’s book, Doing School, and Alexandra Robbins’ The Overachievers, are better treatments of the effects of stress on high school students, in my opinion.</p>
<p>erlanger,
I do not see a bit of difference in the amount of stress on my two daughters, one at a local private HS and one at a top BS. Same pressures. Same issues.
The whole race to college culture is everywhere, and is probably more prevalent at all private (local and boarding) schools, where the average/overall resources are less limited, allowing things to get really over the top.
We believed our older D would be better off at home for high school, and we believed our younger daughter would benefit from finding her way through all this on her own- at home, she would have suffocated. Two very different kids needed different environments to deal with basically same high pressure culture.
BS is definitely an option considered more rarely, and largely misunderstood. But it can be an appropriate one. D2 “owns” everything she has done, good or bad. She is growing because she has managed her own time, and structured her activities herself, and has to learn from her own mistakes. Yes, it is less supportive, but that is what was better for her in order to continue to grow. Sure, she could have stayed home (if we had forced her to!) and gone to the same school as her older sister. She might have even gone to a better college than she would from BS, where the competition for a few slots is fierce. BUT she would not have grown as much.
I am not rationalizing. I am explaining that my kids’ needs were different and we considered the BS option for each, and found that it made sense for D2.
Yes, there is pressure at BS, and maybe more than at most public HS. But not more than at our local private High SchoolS.
You cannot generalize about all kids, or even know what each families’ options are like.
BS does have a place for some. And not all BS are the same. Some are much more supportive and structured than others.
Ideally, we need to review the options available to our kids and find what fits them. I do not think there is really a way to avoid the stress or pressure up to a certain point. </p>
<p>I just wish that there was less pressure and insanity EVERYWHERE! That seems to be the issue to be examined.</p>
<p>I also think the Common App is a huge problem. It is largely responsible for the huge number of applications being thrown at colleges. Maybe we should limit the number of colleges each kid can apply to…
I am also disappointed at the nature of the Common App- it is very dull, and provides very little opportunity for an applicant to show herself as an individual. Not very holistic, to me, anyway.</p>
<p>I know you all love your kids. You just have to do what you think is best for each one.
Perhaps the producer of Race to Nowhere is actually atoning for her own sins a bit by making the movie. Still, it seems disingenuous to me that she did not describe the experiences she lived though while her kids ere going though Lower and Middle School.
Anyway, it sticks in my own craw.
I would like some sincere efforts at getting to this problem. It is not just about too much homework, or too much busywork, or too much pressure, or teaching to the test, or too many outside activities, or not enough down-time. What is causing all this? THAT is the question.</p>
<p>Don’t have an answer about “why” the pressure is so high. Wish I did.</p>
<p>If the kids have some inner energy, they can probably figure it out - they will decide how to balance academics and ECs to suit their own long-term vision of their life.</p>
<p>TV probably gets in the way. Video games probably get in the way. </p>
<p>We can set some long-term expectations - “we expect you to respect your school, and the effort we are putting into supplying it to you”. or “we expect you to try to earn your own living, and pay your own way for the lifestyle you want.” </p>
<p>We can model what we would like to see from them - turn off or limit the TV for ourselves, have some ECs of our own, demonstrate our own judgment on the trade-off of money and values. </p>
<p>And then…hope and pray, I suppose.</p>
<p>I also have a D at BS and a second one in very competitive local private school. I do not agree the pressures are the same or equa. Although they were different kids with different needs–hence the different paths we choose, I have found the pressure at BS is different and more acute for D away at school. Why-- 1) there’s not getting away from it–it’s at dinner, in the dorms, in the library, etc. My other child gets to come home at night and tune in or out as she wants. 2) BS students tend to be more high achieving and capable even though our day school students are driven too–it’s hard to not feel the heat when you are surrounded by other uber-students. 3) IMPORTANT one–my D at BS can’t get a hug from her parents (Obviously) but worse, doesn’t have the same opportunity to blow off steam. Through the ages, teens have used their parents to press limits/push limits and yell/carry on etc. While parents may think it is wonderfully clever to have less of this w/their BS kid away, I think it ADDS pressure and stress to our teen to have to be behaved, tread lightly, avoid the pitfalls, etc.–all of which my D does well–at this age without the unshakable love of parents no matter how she behave. Think about how hard that can be on top of everything else expected of her.</p>
<p>I wonder after reading a lot of these threads, including the Exeter one, if some students are taking courses that are not the appropriate level. There is a huge difference in workload, for example, between regular US History and AP US History. Going back to the movie, not every 8th grader belongs in Algebra I, particularly if they are not developmentally ready. My kids have both struggled with the “too much work, too little sleep” syndrome, but I can trace it back to their choice (not their parents!) to take too many honors or AP courses in a year.</p>
<p>Those are good points, Erlanger.
My sense that my D at local private needed A LOT more of the home stuff than the my current BS D does, which is why they went to their respective schools.
But my point is that the pressure is everywhere.
And my BS D really would not benefit all that much from the home stuff- probably only at acute times. We are definitely in such an acute time this spring, and she is suffering, no question (but probably every single Junior at a high achievement school is having a rough time right now). But I honestly cannot be sure it would be any better for her to be at home. My hugs, nice dinners, love, encouragement, humor, and the away-ness of home do not remove the pressures for some. They feel it anywhere, even from us parents!! FYI we visit her every 2-3 weekends for meals out and a break. She even stays in our hotel room if she wishes, but that happens very very rarely.
This D finds the presence of her peers all around to actually be more comforting than dealing with us! I respect her need for peer company, and her desire to plan and manage her own life. She knows where we stand on things like hard work and breaking rules. She knows that going to BS is a “treat” that shows we trust her, and she has to live up to that trust, but in her own way.
I am going into details because it may be interesting to other parents considering sending their child to BS. Think carefully about the kid. About why he/she wants to go. How it will work for them and for you to have them away. Look carefully at how the actual BS operates. Compare the BS with the package of options available at home, including the kid’s attitude to staying home.
Think about how independent the child is and also how they handle pressure and rejection. How much you trust them. How responsible they are about communicating with you and being honest.
Consider whether an independent life-style will enhance your child’s growth or hinder it.
Yes it can be risky, no question. The rewards can be very high, too.</p>
<p>I saw “Race to Nowhere” the other night with my mom. I didn’t like it that much. Now if you really want to hear good ideas about education reform, read “Cultural Literacy” by E.D Hirsch and “Why America’s Children Can’t Think” by Peter Kline.</p>
<p>I know this is a little old…but I can’t help but to interject here. Although I haven’t seen the movie, I have seen news articles relating to the philosophy (PS have too much HW), and I can only say one thing: It’s ridiculous. Come on people-can’t you see that the majority of our high schools are producing students that can’t compete with people globally? I’m in a district where the high schools has a passing of rate of about 40 percent when it comes to standardized tests. And what is the solution for this? Divide the new high school into four, smaller, high schools, and make schedules more rigid, due to the part that, “half of the freshman get at least one F in their school year!” ***??? And here’s the wacko part-I live about 45 minutes away from a school that Newsweek considers, “one of the best in the US”. Thank God I’m moving to a much better high school.</p>
<p>CM, I am not sure if I understand your point. Are you saying that more homework = better test scores? </p>
<p>My personal opinion is that as a nation, we have become so focused on teaching kids to regurgitate information for poorly designed standardized tests that we have neglected to nurture creativity and problem solving. </p>
<p>My kids are exceptionally good at taking standardized tests, so this is not a sour grapes post.</p>
<p>Sorry about that, Rellielou-I was in a bit of a rush when I wrote that. Yes, I agree that there is too much focus on standardized tests-I had to take a thirty minute class every day, for two weeks, to prepare for one (and I pass all of mine, flying colors.). However, I’m from a district where about 40 percent can pass them-the idea of being stressed too much, from work, is ludicrous. However, I know there are some districts (like the one where I’m moving to), is much more high-performing. Is it just me, but has anyone noticed the disparities between public schools? Maybe Race to Nowhere should focus on that, instead of the idea that America’s children are being stressed too much-because it obviously isn’t, looking at the test scores!</p>
<p>No problem, CM. I appreciate that you took the time to post again. </p>
<p>Is anyone familiar with Sir Ken Robinson? I hope you’ll enjoy this short video on changing the educational paradigm : [watch</a> Sir Ken Robinson](<a href=“http://sirkenrobinson.com/skr/watch]watch”>http://sirkenrobinson.com/skr/watch)</p>
<p>Very thought-provoking, Rellielou!!
Thanks for sharing that link.</p>
<p>When I went to prep school many years ago the reasons were: strong and caring teachers, small class size, good facilities, emphasis on the educational basics, an expectation of excellence and being well-rounded. Absent was “get a prestigious college sticker in the back window of the family car at all costs.” Hard work was part of the package in the classroom and on the athletic fields, but pressure, stress, despair over getting into a tip top college were not what they are today. I realize that it is “harder” to get into college these days, but that does not justify turning our kids’ teenage years into pressure cookers. I thought that Race to Nowhere, while not perfect in any sense, does raise important questions and is a fine conversation-starter.</p>