Racial Atmosphere at Lehigh--Black Parents and Students

<p>My son graduated in May from Lehigh and has returned for grad school there. I can speak from experience of what I've observed over the last 4 1/2 years.</p>

<p>S was an engineering major, had a work-study job and did research on the side. He did not join a frat and wasn't even tempted to, even though many of his best friends did. While he did have a social life he knew the reason for being there was the education.
I've sat in on his classes with him during Parent's Weekend for all 4 years (his request, not mine :)) and witnessed students of all races/nationalities come into class together, hang out in the cafeteria, libraries, etc..</p>

<p>Contact President Gast, I'm sure she would make time to allay your fears about sending your daughter to Lehigh.
Lehigh</a> University - UR News Story: 2891</p>

<p>It really should be her decision to make and I don't think you're giving her enough credit to make a thoughtout decision.
Just my 2 cents.</p>

<p>
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StickerShock, you may not want to hear this but there are a number of people around the country who view east coast kids negatively.

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I know there are ignorant people out there who always seek to categorize others rather than consider the individual as just that -- an individual. But are you defending that bias? I don't agree with forming opinions of an individual based on class, race, region, religion .... whatever. Even if I see actual behavior that I'd consider rude or narrow-minded, I don't immediately attribute it to any "box" into which I can conveniently force someone.</p>

<p>MoWC, agreed - - a parent shouldn't force a child's hand. But kids don't make these decisions in a vacuum and there's no reason a parent shouldn't offer advice, including that s/he feels strongly about the issue. I have, on more than one occasion said to D, "I strongly advise against it, but it's your choice."</p>

<p>.."I think people also have the misconception that being "anti-Greek" means you don't like to drink and party. This was not the case with my son. He had a (too) active social life. There were other reasons he chose not to pledge- he isn't particularly good at being subservient, for one thing!""</p>

<p>MoWC - my son felt the same way ;) his other reason was.."I'm not paying to "have friends". I can make them on my own...</p>

<p>
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""But are you defending that bias?

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StickerShock, I’m not defending bias. Please don’t blame the messenger. I judge individuals but their own behavior, but when individuals elect to group together with other like minded souls (as in the case at IU) they will be judged as a group. I posted the link to the WSJ article because several posters insinuated that the OP’s observations and concerns were unfounded.</p>

<p>StickerShock wrote: "And our kids are so awful that we send them all over the country just to get them out of our hair." LOL</p>

<p>I am a central NJ resident and all this time I have been telling people many of our kids go to college out of state because THEY want to. Now you have revealed the secret: WE force them out because we can't stand them. My wife and I are contributing to the misery of the good people of Delaware and California by sending our kids to their colleges.</p>

<p>I have been following this thread and do not have a lot of feedback to for the OP, who clearly cares for her daughter, except perhaps to go back an re-read his posts. Many sentences start with "I", as in "I am worried...". All of us want to protect our kids but when we project our fears and concerns on them (and I have certainly do that) we do them a disservice.</p>

<p>Sorry, Artiesdad. But as you know, it's realy tough to live with a family full of people who all sound like Tony Soprano:
[quote]
Hearing them speak is like listening to a car crash

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Can anyone really blame us for forcing them out?</p>

<p>"Is your daughter interested in an HBCU? Living in NoVA and also being an Army officer's wife, I have met many Howard and Hampton grads who have done very well in life. Quite a few attribute much of their success to the education that they received at these 2 schools. I would also venture to say that Spellman and Morehouse (amongst others) would also have strong alumnae/i networks."</p>

<p>My D would probably be uncomfortable in a HBCU. And, please, I don't know what all those initials - NPU NPHC GLO - all mean. I've never been a joiner, didn't attend an HBCU, and I don't belong to a family of joiners. None of my siblings went Greek.</p>

<p>TUTUTAXI: Thank you! THank you! Thank you so much for your understanding posts and the link to that WSJ article. Those are exactly the kind of people I don't want my D to have to deal with, although they might be more liberal than their NJ counterparts. A generation ago, those kids parents were just mean and nasty to me. The best treatment I received was simply getting a cold shoulder. From reading that article, their kids aren't any different. The one male student complained about the personalized plates being stolen from his Lexus? What is a college student doing driving a Lexus?</p>

<p>But it was good to learn from the article that at least some of those pompous, spoiled NY/NJ kids actually decided to make some Midwestern friends and get involved with them. Wonderful article.</p>

<p>Let me illustrate the difference between SOME parts of the Midwest and the East Coast with a vignette from my own life. I left New Jersey back in the mid-late eighties to go to grad school in Minnesota, knowing nothing about the state. I'd never been there. I didn't know anyone there. I only went because I was offered a full tuition fellowship and graduate teaching assistantship. The Columbias and NYUs offered me not a penny. </p>

<p>The first daylight I saw in Minnesota told me I was in a different world. There were no black people! Okay, that's an exaggeration for the Twin Cities, but the numbers were few. My second day in Minnesota was spent in my first classes on campus. In each class, I was the only person who wasn't white. Note, I didn't say I was the only black person. I was the only non-white person. PERIOD. I left class and started walking across campus, only to be stopped by a tall white guy who ran up suddenly from behind me. My first reaction was that he was some kind of white supremacist wanting to assault me. He was breathing heavily from catching up to me. I didn't know his name and didn't remember from the class. He told me he was in the same class that had just ended and wanted to know if I was interested in coming to a party at his house that evening. Why would some white dude who had seen me once and didn't know me invite me to his party? It turned out he was just friendly. He liked some comments I had made in class and wanted to invite the "cool" people to his party, but I'd left so fast he didn't have a chance to ask me.</p>

<p>Against my suspicious NJ nature, I went to the party. I had a great time. I quickly made a bunch of friends, all of them white. Something that never happened to me in college in NY in the 70s, or living and working in NJ in the early 80s.</p>

<p>Six weeks after arriving in Minnesota, at another grad student house party, one of my new white friends - get this - introduced me to his ex-wife with whom he was on friendly terms, because he thought we'd make a good couple. His ex-wife was white like him. She didn't blink. She just smiled. I almost fainted! How many white guys would introduce a black guy to their ex-wife, sister, daughter as a romantic possibility? I thought I was on another planet. I knew I wasn't in New Jersey, that's for sure. Yes, I dated her. No, I didn't marry her. I preferred to find women on my own, thank you very much. </p>

<p>I had so many experiences like that one during the 16 years I lived out there, I can't count them. It was like living in another country (I could walk into any McDonald's, Ma and Pa Dry Cleaners, or a supermarket and buy whatever I wanted with a personal check and no I.D. In the 80s!). When I'd tell my black friends in Detroit and New York and NJ, they didn't believe me.</p>

<p>One more. Twice while driving in Minnesota I suffered automobile mechanical trouble and had to pull over to the side of the road. Now when this happened in New Jersey, I'd wait there forever (pre-cell phone days) until either a cop, an enterprising tow truck driver, or a righteous brother man happened to drive by and took mercy on me. No one would ever stop for a muscular, athletic-looking young black man standing outside his car with the hood up. This is what happened in Minnesota both times I had car breakdowns on the highway, and stood outside my car, disgusted, my arms folded. Young, attractive white women slowed up, took a good look at me and pulled over in front of my busted vehicle. They were traveliing alone, and in one situation it was getting dark outside. They each got out of the car and walked right up to me, bold as brass, to ask if they could help, all smiles. I couldn't believe it! Weren't they scared? I noticed each one checked out my left hand, for a wedding band I assumed. When they didn't see one they got real friendly. Not only did I get help (in one case she told me to hop into her car), I got phone numbers. Their phone numbers. Without asking for them. Let's be honest. No white lady traveling by herself who isn't a cop, is going to stop to help a strong looking young black man, who is already in a bad mood, standing outside his broken down car. She's definitely not going to get out of the car and walk right up to me. </p>

<p>Like I said, there were more of these kinds of episodes than I can possibly recount without writing an entire book. They are examples of different attitudes in different parts of the country. </p>

<p>My D doesn't want to go to college in Minnesota because it's too far away from us and she doesn't miss it. She's made friends here in PA, although she still doesn't have any black friends, a consequence of where we live in PA and the high school she attends. But she has noticed a difference in attitudes. What she doesn't realize because she hasn't lived my life is just how different things really are. She's in for a rude awakening. I guess there is nothing I can do to protect her from it. I suppose I should just back off and let her make up her own mind, even if she makes a mistake. </p>

<p>But it's hard not influence her decision. That mistake will be made with my money, which is another thing.</p>

<p>
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What she doesn't realize because she hasn't lived my life is just how different things really are.

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</p>

<p>She will never live your life. She is female.</p>

<p>Much of what you describe is unique to the experience of black men. Being a black woman (or, in your daughter's case, a biracial woman) is quite a different experience.</p>

<p>plainsman, are you kidding me? I am black female, went to all white female HS and did go to college in the 70's in NY. I have not had any of those experiences that you claim to happen in the east coast. I don't know what you are even talking about.
Maybe those things were about other things rather than you being black.</p>

<p>I think your whole family should move to Texas or Tennessee. Fewer nasty northeasterners. Your daughter can try to get into Rice. Problem solved.
Again- YOU moved to a white environment in PA/NJ or wherever. YOU have limited her experiences, which is your choice as a parent. Don't come whining about how hard it is to create a college just for her.
By the way, I was a Pennsylvanian who went to Indiana U for college and I was probably spoiled. However, I LOVED the midwest, thought everyone was nice and fit in just fine. I'm sorry someone gave you the link to the WSJ article (which was hilarious and I'm sure true to some extent) because it just gives you more fuel.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Those are exactly the kind of people I don't want my D to have to deal with, although they might be more liberal than their NJ counterparts. A generation ago, those kids parents were just mean and nasty to me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Keyword: A generation ago. Attitudes towards interracial dating and/or people who are biracial are quite different than they were a generation ago. I am quite positive that biracial couples that would have raised eyebrows 20, 30 years ago don't raise eyebrows today, at all. This generation is very different from previous ones. Yes, where they live modulates that somewhat, but Lehigh isn't in the deep south or anything.</p>

<p>Plainsman - I don't know if it's great to pass judgement on people based solely and completely on your own experience.</p>

<p>My elderly mother's next-door-neighbors are from a suburb just west of Minneapolis. They recently learned she planned to vote for Obama. Shortly after, she had dinner with them and another couple visiting from MN. She was shocked by the alarmist, racist comments that were made. Last time I saw this woman, she pulled me aside and told me she was "concerned" about my mothers political choices. Things haven't improved much since, to the point that it's put a real strain on their friendship. </p>

<p>If I was like you, I might say that that Minnesotans are racist. 100% of the ones I know certainly are. But somehow I don't think that makes much sense.</p>

<p>If you raise your daughter to expect the worst in people-- by lumping them together with your own pre-judgements, IMO you are hurting her WAY more than you are protecting her.</p>

<p>Show yourself, first, to be friendly. Isn't that some sort of rule? OP, you had a very singular experience with people from a certain area of the U.S. Don't allow your past experience to tarnish your daughters chance to have a different, and hopefully, positive experience. I am almost afraid to ask how much contact has she had with Black people or have you, by choice, only exposed her to 1/2 of her biracial American heritage.</p>

<p>MN was our family's first stop when we came to the US. We met some very nice people (professors, elementary teachers, middle class white people). Unfortunately, we also had to live in a not so nice neighborhood because my dad was a student supporting a family of 6. I used to have kids chase me down the street, throwing rocks at me, calling me names. </p>

<p>We moved to a not so small town in WI for my dad's first job after graduation. We were the only Asians in town. When my family went grocery shopping on a Fri night, it was as much of entertainment for the locals as it was for us. I had a group of close friends, but no boy would ever look at me as "just a girl," I was always "that Chinese girl."</p>

<p>We moved to a nice NJ town when my dad got his big job with a major oil company. We were no longer special, but no more name calling or having kids to tell me to go back where I came from. My classmates no longer asked me, "Where you came from, do you have TV, electricity, or food like we have here?" Hello, Get out much?! </p>

<p>I know there are a lot of nice people wherever you go, but NY tri state area is where I feel most comfortable. People have an edge to them, there is nothing boring about them. Many people are expats or have worked in other countries. My kids grew up in NYC and NJ, diversity of people and beat/excitement of NYC have made them very interesting people. In contrast, my older daughter have found some kids from other parts of the country very one dimensional.</p>

<p>Maybe take a step back for a moment and think about this. Setting aside differences of opinion about social and racial matters, what capabilities do you ultimately want your D to develop? </p>

<p>As for me, in addition to nurturing a sharp intellectual ability, I want mine to be adept at maneuvering through all the challenges our society promises. I want her to be confident of character, not easily intimidated, and skillfully persuasive. I want her to have personal depth and mental toughness which feeds a capacity to lead. I expect her to be mature, poised under pressure, a great team player, and yet, a tenacious competitor. I want her to be ready to take on whatever comes her way whether I'm present or not. </p>

<p>I suspect most of us hope for the same. Unfortunately, people don't come by those traits going through life untested, unchallenged, insulated and protected. We shelter our children at their own risk. Parenting means we teach them foundational principles early in life. We guide them, nurture them, support them, and give them as many object lessons as we can. But at a certain point, we take off the training wheels so the things we've taught can become tangible. Life's lessons rarely take root without the opportunity to put them in play. </p>

<p>Sure, we cringe as parents because we remember how things were for us at times. We remember our own humiliations and failures -- times that were painful. It's natural not to want those experiences, or even the risk of them, for our kids. In fact, one of the ironies of life is that we know we are stronger because of our tough times, but we instinctively risk making our kids handicapped by not allowing them to be exposed to having theirs. </p>

<p>College, for all its potential hazards, is still a relatively protective environment, perfect for letting our kids get their sea legs. I've done the very best parenting I know how. Now I have to be confident such efforts will take hold and flourish. Fortunately, my kids leave our home anxious to prove our years of effort weren't in vain. I take some solice in that, despite understanding there are aspects of life more difficult than they presently anticipate. </p>

<p>Plainsman, you are going to have to do the same. If you try to keep her from all the things that hurt you in your life, you'll only be leaving her more vulnerable and less prepared to deal with them should they occur in hers. As the saying goes, iron sharpens iron. Do you think she will not encounter distasteful, racist people in the world just because you steer her away from them in college? Of course she will, and maybe at a time when the stakes are much higher. What then? A scared person never grows, and those who go untested are often the most scared of all. </p>

<p>Far be it from me to tell anyone else how to raise their kids. It's only by grace we've had such good fortune ourselves. However, as someone who shares similar circumstances as you, I can only suggest you give your D the chance to steer a little on her own. It really doesn't matter if she goes to a school that's all white, all greek, next door, or across the country. What matters is that you've taught her well. Trust her to honor the lessons you've instilled, and allow her the freedom to go about learning new ones filtered through the principles you've been providing all her life. Losing a few nights sleep from time to time is a price we pay for parenthood. But we can't always let that be the barometer by which we judge what's best, or even what's right. </p>

<p>Okay, sorry for the long post. I'm stepping off my soapbox now. Best of luck to you and your D.</p>

<p>^^^I nominate this for post-of-the-day^^^^^</p>

<p>I was thinking the same thing - very eloquent. Nicely done, FLVADAD!</p>

<p>"Trust her to honor the lessons you've instilled, and allow her the freedom to go about learning new ones filtered through the principles you've been providing all her life."</p>

<p>Pure Gold</p>

<p>FLVADAD, your post could be applied to probably at least half the topics we parents post here on CC!</p>

<p>It reminds me of one of my favorite sayings about parenting, which is "Prepare the child for the road, not the road for the child."</p>

<p>Sounds simple, but it is not!</p>