<p>how tense is it?</p>
<p>its not tense at all, what the heck are you talking about? if anyone wants to self-segregate, they can certainly do so, just like at any other school. But tension? there isnt any tension.</p>
<p>i heard that sometimes wars break out in the dining halls between the main factions, the jews, WASPs, asians, and the URMs.</p>
<p>why, aren't you a clever one</p>
<p>ridiculous answer to a ridiculous question</p>
<p>you guys are kidding yourself if you think racial segregation isn't a reality on college campuses--particularly elite college campuses that attract an atypically diverse student body. diverse as the student body is, it is usually a highly segregated diversity, and this is particularly evident in dining halls (if you're on an ivy campus, a quick look around the next time you eat will probably suffice to prove the point). it rarely causes tension, however unless there are particularly polarizing events that happen on campus--an incidence of blatant racism, etc. in these highly emotionally charged cases the tension can be extreme.
i've spent significant time on the campuses of brown, dartmouth, and harvard and seen this on all three.</p>
<p>in all seriousness, i've seen quite a bit of racial tension at cornell [EDIT: i have some friends there] between whites and URMs. i'm sure it exists to some degree at every college, but it's not really a significant factor in choosing a college, IMO.</p>
<p>I will give you self-segregation, but not tension by any means. I just dont think it is that big of an issue. Then again I pretty darn white and my roomate, my best friend here, is a Ghanian who lives in Britain, so maybe my perspective is skewed because it hasnt been an issue for me</p>
<p>I went to one of the dining halls once, and yeah, there was a little separation. But it seemed "voluntary." One thing that bugs me about my high school. All the blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, Indians, etc. sit together voluntarily, and then say that the school is segregated. Duh. Anyway, there's a huge difference between racial tension and self-segregation.</p>
<p>but isn't it like that everywhere? the dining hall separation for example</p>
<p>I think there is very little, if any, hostility.</p>
<p>And to be fair to the minorities who are "self-segregating", this is FULLY sanctioned and encouraged by the college. There is an abundance of racially segregated housing (Cutter/Shabazz, LALACS, Native American House.) There are about 87 different Hispanic groups, and several Black Greek Organizations. It is partially the fault of the school that integration and inclusion are not encouraged. But it is considered out of bounds to question these programs, because then you are intolerant.</p>
<p>Whatever athena, that is the conservatism coming in. Many people find that those programs give them a sense of community within comminity. Go to a theta delt party and you will only see white people. No one seems concerned, there might be a little need of being culturally aware there. As for hostility though, its non-existant.</p>
<p>Gee, you say "that's the conservatism" in such an accusatory way.</p>
<p>If I went to a Theta Delt party I wouldn't see only white people. At least, not if I passed a mirror, because I am Latina.</p>
<p>And say the frat basement scene is largely white? Why is that? Do you think if a black person went to a party at Theta Delt that he would be lynched?</p>
<p>Of course not. People at Dartmouth go there and self-segregate because that is what the college encourages them to do. Racial identity is thrust upon you from the moment you check the applicable box.</p>
<p>Athena, are you saying there is no meaningful social intermingling? I am sad to hear you call the interest houses "racially segregated", although I do understand what you actually mean - not officially sanctioned, but it "just works out that way" - maybe preference given to persons of that ethnicity, etc. I really think the admin should be called on that, interest houses should promote integration, not segregation, while celebrating the cultural differences (doesn't that sound like a nice promotional speech?)
Anyway DD goes to a school that is predominantly white but still diverse in the sense that there are many other ethnicities, countries, races, represented, and the kids are friends with each other. I know there are some tensions, and the URM kids have some difficult times (this is the deep South after all), but the intent of the admin is for them to be a part of the community, not "apart" from the community - and for the most part I think they feel they belong - the situation you describe is sad.</p>
<p>Another observation from the South - the Greek system also feeds this situation, both white and black frats have long histories that they don't want to give up, many traditions, and while I think the national organizations probably have inclusion policies, it hasn't always filtered down to the local level. Also, (look at the Univ of AL) there are political reasons for not integrating frats (dilutes the black frats voting power). Churches ,fraternities, and country clubs - the last institutions to be integrated because they are private organizations - the churches down here ARE changing, what will follow?</p>
<p>Cangel-</p>
<p>I am in a sorority, and I think the Greek Houses are very open to URMs. I think that the affinity programs serve as a sort of filter to the Greek system. The black/Hispanic/Native American students join these groups, don't rush the Greek system, and then the Greek system is criticized for being all white, and discriminatory.</p>
<p>But let me stress, it's not the fault of the minority students! At least, not to a large extent. If you were a) sent a barrage of emails and mailings from day 1 encouraging you to self-segregate, and then got to the school and were b) flooded with false stereotypes on the bigotry and racism of the Greek system, what would you choose to do? My point is these logical assumptions are based on completely invalid information. The Greek system is very welcoming to minorities. If a minority goes into the basement of "Theta Delt", to use someone else's example, they would be offered a beer and asked if they wanted to play pong, just like anyone else.</p>
<p>One last thing: let me stress this. Dartmouth has an interesting situation. Most of it's fraternities and sororities are local houses (not part of a national organization). The reason for this is that many of the houses were national, and rejected their national charter because of policies of racial exclusion that were incompatible with the values of the organization (at the time of the split.) This is hardly a system founded on self-segregation.</p>
<p>This has some similarities and some differences to the state of affairs in Southern unis.
It sounds like the affinity housing was originally created to make minorities feel welcome, and to combat segregation within the Greek system (years ago), but now the special housing perversely preserves segregation. Are there a proportional number of Greek URMs - I know our tour guide was a Jewish sorority member, something you wouldn't have seen in the South 20 years ago.</p>
<p>Athena, I stated that of course there is no hostility. In fact, a great great majority of Dartmouth students are incredibly aware of cultural issues. At a majority of houses, especially on frat row, there are a number of minority members. I think the best thing about the Dartmouth greek system is its openness to all individuals. </p>
<p>And I completely agree that at every house, including theta delt, no one would ever be discriminated against. I guess that is the beauty of going to Dartmouth. But certain houses (like theta delt), although not intentionally, do have more white students in attendance than the other houses. (I take back my no minorities point, minorities are definately in attendance). But my point is that this is self segregation as well.</p>
<p>A better example than a public place such as theta delt though, is perhaps some of the off campus parties where literally you see only a couple minorities. Once again, this is only a select few places. But here the white rich students are not actively discriminating at all, but they also are not completely aware that there are no minorites in attendance. </p>
<p>You need some housing that gives minorities a community within community. Overall, I think Dartmouth does a great job with integrating minorities. People in food court might self segregate a little, but not that much at all. I have seen far worse at urban schools like Penn.</p>
<p>"I don't know about Dartmouth too much. They had a highly publicized racial incident in the past that has given them a black eye and students continue to complain about racial segregation."</p>
<p>Do you know which "incident" this is referring to? Very ironical because this is a comment from the mom of a Penn student, and according to Slipper, Penn is far worse!</p>
<p>
[quote]
And to be fair to the minorities who are "self-segregating", this is FULLY sanctioned and encouraged by the college. There is an abundance of racially segregated housing (Cutter/Shabazz, LALACS, Native American House.) There are about 87 different Hispanic groups, and several Black Greek Organizations. It is partially the fault of the school that integration and inclusion are not encouraged. But it is considered out of bounds to question these programs, because then you are intolerant.
[/quote]
[quote]
A better example than a public place such as theta delt though, is perhaps some of the off campus parties where literally you see only a couple minorities. Once again, this is only a select few places. But here the white rich students are not actively discriminating at all, but they also are not completely aware that there are no minorites in attendance.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I feel that these two statements are related. Because of programs aiding in self-segregation, students are less likely to become friends with those of other races because of proximity factors. And why would one invite someone who is not a friend to a private party? I don't know anyone, who when making out a guest list, thinks, "Gosh, I just have to include some URMs in here to have a multitude of races." I don't think you can be condscending towards "rich white students" for segregating their parties in such a way - I'm sure black students do the same thing.</p>