Rank of Nation's Top High Schools

Parents Forum
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<p>Washington DC spends the most on their schools per student and ranks at the BOTTOM in student academic achievement. Putting more money in these sink holes or money pits solves nothing.</p>

<p>Arthur Hu wrote about California's schools and its students. Please read the following carefully.</p>

<p>"California's 1994 CLAS (California Learning Assessment System) test introduced massive multiculturalism and had several questions for which more than one answer was counted as correct. Yet nobody noticed that elementary-school blacks and Hispanics did just as poorly in predominantly minority areas of Oakland, East Palo Alto, and Alum Rock as in legally integrated San Francisco. At Grade 10, only 10 to 15 per cent of black students got 3 or better in math whether they went to integrated San Francisco, the segregated communities of Contra Costa County, Oakland, or Silicon Valley's Santa Clara County. Asians continue to stampede into Cupertino, home of the founders of Apple Computers, because of its excellent schools. But US News (April 21, 1997) highlighted the poor performance of blacks there, and they lagged the state average on the CLAS." </p>

<p>"Meanwhile, the Asians of the Chinatown ghettos in San Francisco scored as well as children of affluent engineers in Santa Clara County. Asians in Santa Clara County scored as well as whites in posh San Ramon Valley or Cupertino. Asians in Cupertino scored as well as whites in Palo Alto, the best district in the Bay Area. Blacks in San Ramon Valley scored no better than state average for all races, while Asians there outscored every other race and community." </p>

<p>Again, good schools are not all about money, but about the CULTURE and RESPECT FOR LEARNING of the STUDENTS THEMSELVES, their parents and their teachers. Certain students may have to change their culture in order to be successful. No amount of money will do this, no matter how rich the school is.</p>

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<p>Edited and corrected:</p>

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<p>Increasing misdirected funds without accountability to these underperforming and underachieving school districts solves and fixes NOTHING. This has already been done for decades. Remember, "you could still obtain a good education under a tree".</p>

<p>Washington DC spends the most money in the nation on public education and their schools per student and ranks at the BOTTOM in student academic achievement. The same is true of Newark, NJ which has the highest spending per student with the lowest academic achievement per student in NJ. Putting more money in these sink holes or money pits solves nothing. This bleeding of funds does not solve the problem of underperformance of blacks or close the racial gaps in education. This only provides jobs for the flaming liberals who make a living on this by soothing their white guilt feelings for previous wrongs against Afro-Americans without solving the roots of the problem of the racial gaps in education. This has caused a tremendous disservice for American blacks.</p>

<p>Again, good schools are not all about money, but mostly about the CULTURE and RESPECT FOR LEARNING of the STUDENTS THEMSELVES, their parents and their teachers. Certain students may have to change their culture in order to be successful. No amount of money will do this, no matter how rich the school is.</p>

<p>In the black community, where out-of-wedlock births are as high as 90% in Harlem, and where there is self-destructive behavior with drug abuse, black on black crime, dysfunctional families or the lack of family units without the values of respect for education and studying hard, and generations of dependancy on government assistance, there needs to be a change of the CULTURE for blacks.</p>

<p>However, to ask a blacks to change their culture, is to bring charges of racism from the flaming liberals and advocates for these misdirected increasing economic interventions without accountability. This only serves to give a good living for these advocates, including the predominately white self-serving teacher's unions, while causing a disservice and harm to blacks</p>

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<p>"Mini....we could certainly start a new thread on how many kids are being left out of opportunities because of the mixed-up priorities in my state and our country in terms of per capita spending on public education."</p>

<p>Great idea!</p>

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<p>Article: Remaking High School
<a href="http://www.asbj.com/current/coverstory.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.asbj.com/current/coverstory.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

105

<p>tom vanderark how clueless is he?
I don't disagree that schools have a greater burden now to be all things to all people than they did 50 years ago, but it rubs me the wrong way that billionaries are dictating what direction schools go in.
The most successful school in our district, is inner city and huge but Bill gates and Vander ark want to make large schools "small learning communities"
WHat will happen when their money runs out?</p>

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[quote]
The day his oldest daughter graduated from high school, Tom Vander Ark sat among the thousands of other proud parents, relatives and friends in the Tacoma Dome and thought something didn't look right.</p>

<p>Too few students in blue robes were crossing the stage. Too many had white faces. He consulted the program. Only 400-some names. He knew the Federal Way High School class of 2002 started with about 600. That meant roughly 200 missing, many of them minorities.</p>

<p>He tells this story often these days to explain why, as executive director of education giving at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, he's still counting the missing. If everybody who's been in a graduation or attended one could imagine a third of the kids not on that stage, half the African-American and Latino students not on that stage, then maybe they'd be as shocked and outraged as he is.

[/quote]
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<p>Vander Ark was the Federal Way superintendent. The parents knew the graduation rate, why didn't he?</p>

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<a href="http://www.schoolredesign.net/srn/server.php?idx=114%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.schoolredesign.net/srn/server.php?idx=114&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>In fact, aren't magnet programs within larger schools "small learning communities?"</p>

107

<p>I don't like the idea of students having to choose what to major in, in high school.
Schools are divided up into biotech/engineering/finance/maritime for example.</p>

<p>Some schools are divided up into smaller learning communities or cores, red/green/blue groups for example all take their core LA/history classes together.
Advisors follow a group of students throughout their four years in high school and the ratio is about 1/25, teachers other than counselors are used.
Lots of ideas without having to go through the Gates foundation.
What I saw at Ds former school is jumping through hoops and wasting time and energy to meet the letter but not spirit of recieiving the money.
Example, schools have money to "reform" schools and implement a "transformation plan". They are supposed to write a Transformation plan first then spend accordingly, but they do it the other way around. They turned their budget in last year so late, the district didn't have any choice but to rubberstamp it.
What schools need are impassioned educators and involved communities.
Making smaller schools isn't going to reduce class size.
In my daughters current school, the union has approved class size of 30. However the district assigned more kids than that to school so some rooms have up to 35, for each student over allowed, school has to pay the teacher more, and this comes from the building budget.
a school divided up into 4 schools will still have the problems that our larger schools have. Say you want a football team, are we going to have four teams? Where is the money for the coaches going to come from?
Smaller schools will have to cut electives as choosing the school will determine your focus. will students be able to change from one school to another?
Lots of questions.</p>

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<p>Lots of questions, for sure. I suppose I like this idea in theory and you dislike it in practice. I, too, wouldn't like it if the students had to choose early majors. But in theory, there are many different ways these issues could be worked out positively. Of course this all could go the way of new math and whole language, but it does appear to me that some attempt at reform is worthwhile. </p>

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In a system of small schools in close proximity to each other nothing prevents a group of schools from freely choosing to collaborate in offering specialized courses. Or joining together to create a stronger athletic team or choir. Or using other community resources. (1995, p. 117)</p>

<p>Many of the promising large school redesign efforts now underway are using this strategy: In one school building that houses multiple small learning communities, students take common electives and play on common athletic teams before and after the regular school day.

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<a href="http://www.schoolredesign.net/srn/server.php?idx=523%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.schoolredesign.net/srn/server.php?idx=523&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>There's an article in the New York Times today about what happens to other schools when some are turned into small learning communities. Their numbers swell well past their capacities. So they go from being too big to being even bigger. One anecdote included in the article was about a fight that erupted over a chair. And of c-urse, while students are sent to these schools, teachers and textbooks do not follow. Sounds like a lot of school reform is a zero sum game. When some kids win, others lose.</p>

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<p>I think small schools are great if they are part of a system that involves CHOICE, and students are able to have choices.
My oldest D attended a very small private school with only 18 in her class. Many of the classes only had 13-15 students. This I think made more of a difference than the overall school size.</p>

<p>
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Of course this all could go the way of new math and whole language, but it does appear to me that some attempt at reform is worthwhile

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<p>I hope we do dump new- new math. I hate it.
Why do we have to keep reinventing how we teach math?</p>

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<p>Emerald--what is new new math?</p>

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<p>Its math that is taught on a spiral instead of linearly ( sp/)
theoretically you go back and cover what kids didn't get first time , but it doesn't seem to work that way.Lots of students have big gaps in understanding.
My daughter graduated middle school without knowing how to do long division.
<a href="http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>While this is not the same issue you are discussing, but within your discussion class size came up. Although our schools here might be considered rinky dink and surely unknown, one benefit I see that we have over anecdotes here of 30 some odd kids in a class .....I would say that the high school classes rarely are over about 22 kids and often smaller. Our elem school, which admittedly has won national awards but is a rural public school values small class size. I believe it is written policy that class size not exceed a certain number which is likely not over 18 (not positive the number) but the typical class size there currently is 15 kids per room in multi-age groupings (out of philosophy, not due to size of school). I think the kids have truly benefitted from this type of class size over the years. Having been a teacher myself, I cannot imagine 30 kids in a class and actually being able to individualize and such. I was a teacher who individualized a LOT and believe in that philosophy. But I never had more than 17 kids in the class. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

114

<p>Emeraldkity said, </p>

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<p>Of course class size made a difference!!</p>

<p>The boarding prep school experience is really about the experience itself for all the aforementioned reasons given in my previous posts. By en large, they produce students who are independent and who can critically think, write and speak, in addittion to having the vast opportunities availabe to pursue their passions and extricurricular interests. This experience is similar to the collegiate experience for the preppie at an earlier stage. This student is WELL PREPARED FOR COLLEGE, hence the name "prep school" is given to these elite schools.</p>

<p>At the private preps, the courses offerred are at the collegiate level, but they are not labeled as AP and they are not geared towards the AP exams. These courses are taught by instructors who are college level qualified teachers, many with multiple degrees and PhDs in their field of instruction, from the Ivies and elite colleges, who could easily be on a tenured college or university faculty. Many have done extensive research and published. You don't find this in Podunk HS, USA or even the public magnet schools because of the lack of monetary resources. These courses are taught in small discussion groups of 12 to 15 students (average of 13) around an oval table called the "Harkness Table", in schools such as Exeter, Lawrenceville and Hotchkiss, where every student is expected to participate in the Socratic method of teaching, and given feedback from his fellow students and his instructor. In fact, the AP courses of study have been given less importance in the overall education of the prep student in recent years. It is the manner or way in which the student is taught that is the most important, and how the student can independently and critically think, write and speak that is emphasized. This is done in small sized classes with highly competent instructors trained in their respective fields of study. In fact, this is what a college is supposed to do, but many colleges cannot do as well as these private preps in the teaching of its students.</p>

<p>The campuses of the boarding preps will blow away or simply put to shame many of the colleges in America. For instance, Andover has 500 acres of land with about 175 buildings, including a state of the art science building, music building, 1000 seat performance arts theater, 2000 seat Chapel, 2 ice hockey rinks, a football stadium, 2 arts museums and extensive collections of art and archeology, and a huge library befitting a small liberal arts college. Exeter, Andover's arch rival, has similar facilities. Both Andover and Exeter have over $500 million endowments for each of their respective 1000 students. This gives them one of the highest endowment dollars per student in all the preps and the vast majority of the colleges and universities in America. </p>

<p>The resources of these school give their students vast opportunities to pursue any passion or special talents that they may have in the arts, performing arts, literary arts, science, math, sports, community service and exchange programs overseas in studies with foreign schools. </p>

<p>These schools are obviously not for everyone, but it is hard to refuse an opportunity to attend one of these elite boarding preps, if one had the choice, without the financial contraints of attending. We all wish we can only be so lucky!!</p>

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<p>There are classrooms in California with 65 (yup, that's right), but with only 30 desks. Kids rotate sitting down </p>

<p>These are not "failing schools". These are schools (and neighborhoods) that have been conquered, occupied, and dominated, and the only way out that is offered is to escape.</p>

<p>But that option is not open to many.</p>

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<p>"There are classrooms in California with 65 (yup, that's right), but with only 30 desks. Kids rotate sitting down. These are not "failing schools". These are schools (and neighborhoods) that have been conquered, occupied, and dominated, and the only way out that is offered is to escape. "</p>

<p>Stunning. Where exactly in CA are these schools, and how many such are there? What do you mean by "conquered, occupied, and dominated?" Are we talking Crips and Bloods, or teachers unions? What should be done?</p>

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<p>For some "fun" reading, go to <a href="http://www.decentschools.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.decentschools.org&lt;/a> - this is the website related to the Williams v. California lawsuit that Schwarzenegger just settled for a billion dollars rather than let it go to court. </p>

<p>I mean conquered, occupied, and dominated as in resources ripped out of their hearts (everything from industries to transportation systems to human capital), and in the process, all hope lost. Think India before Gandhi. Think south L.A. starting in the early 1950s.</p>

<p>What should be done? Oh, I don't know. Just for starters and just for schools - since for two or three generations, resources per student were allocated away from the occupied territories, I think we could try doing the opposite for maybe two or three generations. Say for every dollar given to a school in Marin, maybe three bucks or so to one in Oakland. But it has to be done for two or three generations. At the end of it, maybe 50-60 years, we could see if the "experiment" worked. If it wasn't working yet, maybe a generation more.</p>

<p>Just dreamin' of course.</p>

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<p>Emerald:</p>

<p>Regarding small schools, some years ago, our high school (ca. 2000 students) went through a wrenching restructuring. A new principal was brought in to handle the fact that some "houses" did better than others academically, and that there was self-selection and self-segregation by houses. The idea was to randomly assign students to new small schools of about 400 students each; eventually, these small schools would develop their own identities (read "specialization") and become autonomous small schools. The Gates Foundation gave a grant to study ways for the small schools to develop.
Eventually, the high school decided not to split into five autonomous small schools but to retain its umbrella structure and it decided to reject the Gates grant. One reason for the rejection was the fear that the small schools would become too specialized, yet students would be randomly assigned to them (controlling for SES and choice of foreign language); another concern was that the small schools would not be able to offer the same number of AP courses as the larger high school currently does. The issue of sports, music, drama and other school-wide activities also came up.
I was very relieved when the high school did not split up. All this restructuring had not addressed the issue of class size, curriculum or curricular expectations. We've begun to address these over the last couple of years, and it's making quite a difference.</p>

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<p>More on "conquered, occupied, and dominated": On the west coast, the U.S. military invaded, for good reasons, during World War II. It was always port cities: Long Beach, Oakland, Tacoma being prime examples. Naval shipyards expanded, and since there was a huge need for cheap labor, much of it was brought from the South, especially African-American women. Many of them came from places where the only available labor was as domestic workers, making maybe $3 a day. In Long Beach, they could make $47 a day in military industries. African-American communities flourished - there was culture, education, music. There was cheap, efficient public transportation. Public schools were supported.</p>

<p>And then the bottom fell out. The industries folded up shop, and went elsewhere. There was "welfare" for all the returning GIs - subsidized home loans, subsidized college educations, the stay-at-home tax incentive (what we now call "the marriage penalty"). None of this was available to the women who built all the military equipment and the ships. The heart was ripped out of the public transportation systems. The GIs flocked to new housing developments, often outside the old local school districts, and the tax bases were destroyed. </p>

<p>You know what happens next. What happens when African-American women, and their children without high school diplomas, compete for jobs with white returning war veterans newly graduated from colleges paid for by the largest welfare program in the nation's history?</p>

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<p>Mini, you are on the wrong thread. Why don'y you start a thread on the worst schools or the "Lowest ranked schools in California" or better yet, the "Lowest ranked schools in America" or "Rank of Nation's Worst High Schools"?</p>

<p>The name of this thread is, "Rank of Nation's Top High Schools", in case you have forgotten.</p>