Rank the top 20 NON-IVY schools

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Caltech, MIT, Stanford, Chicago, Duke, Northwestern, WashU, Johns Hopkins, Emory, Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Berkeley, Carnegie Mellon, Georgetown, Virginia, USC, Michigan, Tufts, UNC?</p>

2

<ol>
<li>Stanford, 2. MIT, Caltech, Duke = Chicago = Northwestern, JHU…</li>
</ol>

3

<p>Rank based on what exactly? I guess I’ll focus on undergrad education (this is my opinion)</p>

<ol>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>U. Chicago</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>JHU</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
<li>Emory</li>
<li>Rice</li>
<li>Notre Dame</li>
<li>Wash U.</li>
<li>Vanderbilt </li>
<li>Tufts</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon</li>
<li>William and Mary</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Michigan</li>
<li>Virginia</li>
<li>Georgetown</li>
<li>USC</li>
</ol>

4

<p>Several LACs belong in there.</p>

5

<ol>
<li>Stanford
*1. Williams</li>
<li>MIT
*2. Amherst</li>
<li>U. Chicago
*3. Swarthmore
*3. Middlebury</li>
<li>Caltech
*4. Bowdoin/Wellesley</li>
<li>JHU</li>
<li>Duke
*5. Pomona</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
<li>Emory</li>
<li>Rice</li>
<li>Notre Dame</li>
<li>Wash U.</li>
<li>Vanderbilt </li>
<li>Tufts</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon</li>
<li>William and Mary</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Michigan</li>
<li>Virginia</li>
<li>Georgetown</li>
<li>USC</li>
</ol>

6

<ol>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Williams</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>UChicago</li>
<li>Amherst</li>
<li>Swarthmore</li>
<li>Pomona</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
<li>Middlebury</li>
<li>Wellesley</li>
<li>Bowdoin</li>
<li>WashU</li>
<li>Emory</li>
<li>Vanderbilt</li>
<li>Rice</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Georgetown</li>
<li>Michigan</li>
<li>Virginia</li>
</ol>

7

<p>The most selective national universities offer classes as small as (or in some cases even smaller than) the top LACs. But they offer a lot more. Huge libraries, state of the art research facilities, nationally prominent faculty members, broad and deep course offerings.</p>

<p>If you don’t need all that, LACs can give you a great education in an environment I’d personally prefer to that of a larger school. But for a truly exceptional student who can take advantage of a research university, Middlebury does not begin to approach Chicago nor is Amherst comparable to MIT. I’d compare the best of the LACs to national universities in the 15-20 range. Or something like that.</p>

8

<p>Precisely. Including the LAC’s:

  1. Stanford, 2. MIT, Caltech, Duke = Chicago = Williams = Amherst = Northwestern, JHU = Middlebury,…</p>
9

<p>I’ll put my plug in for LACs offering the better UG experience. At large research universities, young faculty are mentored to put no more time into their courses than needed to get average evaluations (lest it distract from their research productivity.) You are far more likely to be taught by an adjunct or a ESL graduate student TA than by the famous NAS professor. Give me a big research university for grad school, but an LAC for UG. So my list of top 20s would have lots of LACs, unless we are talking about vocational degrees like engineering.</p>

10

<p>

True, however they offer MORE classes in the super large category. ALL of the top LACs offer a smaller percentage of classes >50 people as any of the major Us. If you are looking for individual attention and a supportive environment then I feel the LACs are superior. If your are looking for research opportunities then universities are better.</p>

11

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<br>

<p>That was not my experience. At the T10 national university from which I graduated, I had a TA in precisely one class (a lab section of an introductory Bio course). Many prominent faculty members taught undergraduates there. Maybe there are more TAs there now, I don’t know. But I’m sure that many prominent faculty still teach undergrads.</p>

<p>Hawkette has posted numbers on the percentage of large classes at various schools. As I recall, at the university I attended, only about 4% of classes currently have >50 students. But yes, at my son’s LAC, zero do.</p>

12

<p>wow i dont see UCLA on any of the above lists not that im a fan but the opposite its heartning to know that USC is starting to overpass UCLA in a lot of respects.</p>

13

<p>Oops, sorry I forgot about Notre Dame. I would put it right after Rice at number 19.</p>

14

<p>Berkeley
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. the rest</p>

15

<p>^lolz, this is 2010… not the 1980s anymore.</p>

16

<p>Do you guys ever get tired of making lists of schools. Some day you are going to run out of types of lists to argue about.</p>

17

<p>Have you seen US News rankings for national undergraduate universities? Notre Dame comes after all of the schools you just mentioned. Graduate rankings are another story.</p>

18

<p>to OP: Just go to US News Rankings to get your answer.</p>

19

<p>tk21769 #7 - I believe you sell LACs a bit short. At many of the top universities, the well known faculty may not teach a course, or may only teach large lectures. On the other hand, LACs often have famous professors who teach classes in the 7 -20 student range, and get to know the students and how they think in even introductory classes. Further, for an undergraduate, the amazing research opportunities at large universities may involve being an assistant to a graduate student in a professors lab, while the best LACs have students doing meaningful research working one on one with a professor.</p>

<p>Course offerings? While pursuing a major and taking requirements, and with a limit of 32-40 classes total over 4 years, it is impossible for any inquisitive student to exhaust even a portion of the interesting courses at a top LAC. The huge choice of classes at large research universities doesn’t do much for the individual student. Specialization (and use of those classes) is really the realm of graduate school.</p>

20

<ol>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>Chicago</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Virgina</li>
<li>Georgetown</li>
<li>Washu</li>
<li>Vanderbilt</li>
</ol>