<p>Percent submitting ACT, ACT midpoint, school name</p>
<p>40 34 Harvey Mudd College
63 33 Washington University in St Louis
51 32.5 University of Notre Dame
43 32.5 Pomona College
65 32 Vanderbilt University
62 32 Northwestern University
49 32 University of Chicago
46 32 Rice University
44 32 Duke University
58 31 Carleton College
42 31 University of Southern California
40 31 Johns Hopkins University
49 30.5 Tulane University of Louisiana
49 30.5 United States Air Force Academy
49 30.5 Washington and Lee University
62 30 Case Western Reserve University
57 30 Macalester College
50 30 Colorado College
50 30 Davidson College
45 30 Grinnell College
45 30 Kenyon College
44 30 Scripps College
42 30 Oberlin College
42 30 Wellesley College
80 29.5 Hendrix College
80 29 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
67 29 University of Tulsa
65 29 Wheaton College
57 29 New College of Florida
49 29 Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus
42 29 University of Richmond
40 29 Bucknell University
40 29 Whitman College
99 28.5 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
96 28.5 Illinois Wesleyan University
91 28.5 Colorado School of Mines
85 28.5 St. Olaf College
71 28.5 Centre College
95 28 Missouri University of Science and Technology
94 28 Brigham Young University
89 28 University of Wisconsin-Madison
84 28 Ohio State University-Main Campus
77 28 Kalamazoo College
73 28 Rhodes College
69 28 Illinois Institute of Technology
54 28 Sewanee-The University of the South
50 28 The University of Texas at Austin
50 28 University of Puget Sound
44 28 Santa Clara University
96 27.5 Truman State University
93 27.5 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
74 27.5 United States Military Academy
73 27.5 University of Denver
63 27.5 Furman University
57 27.5 Southern Methodist University
55 27.5 United States Coast Guard Academy
50 27.5 The University of Texas at Dallas
46 27.5 Grove City College
44 27.5 University of California-Los Angeles
96 27 Drake University
86 27 Saint Louis University-Main Campus
80 27 Auburn University Main Campus
72 27 Cornell College
72 27 Gustavus Adolphus College
68 27 Beloit College
54 27 University of Georgia
48 27 Chapman University
48 27 Loyola Marymount University
47 27 University of San Diego
40 27 University of California-San Diego
95 26.5 Transylvania University
94 26.5 Milwaukee School of Engineering
93 26.5 Luther College
92 26.5 Marquette University
92 26.5 Ohio Northern University
87 26.5 Creighton University
87 26.5 New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
64 26.5 DePauw University
60 26.5 California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo
60 26.5 The College of Wooster
45 26.5 Baylor University
43 26.5 Allegheny College
98 26 Saint Johns University
94 26 Michigan Technological University
86 26 University of Oklahoma Norman Campus
82 26 Calvin College
49 26 Purdue University-Main Campus
47 26 University of California-Santa Barbara
42 26 University of California-Davis
95 25.5 University of Iowa
94 25.5 Union University
92 25.5 University of Alabama in Huntsville
86 25.5 Michigan State University
74 25.5 University of Colorado at Boulder
67 25.5 Wofford College
58 25.5 Austin College
56 25.5 LeTourneau University
41 25.5 University of California-Irvine
95 25 University of Nebraska-Lincoln
93 25 Iowa State University</p>
<p>Thanks, Ch! If Notre Dame is considered an ACT school, it appears that the school has lots of company, including plenty of schools with above 60% ACT scores. As Vienna said, that limits the comparative value of the listed SAT scores.</p>
<p>Best CR and M scores reported to rating agencies for UCLA and Cal are still based on highest aggregate scores per sitting. This is because the application to UC asks for specific date in which best total score was attained and breaks them down by component.</p>
<p>Generally related to this thread:</p>
<p>If one examines the matriculants to these colleges/universities on an individual hs basis wrt UCLA and Cal v most of the others, one finds that:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>The gpa/scores of UCLA and Cal matriculants from better public and private high schools will be higher than most of the colleges and universties, even though many of these c’s and u’s will report higher overall score means than the two UCs.</p></li>
<li><p>But since both are public universities, both have an extra component of in admitting at risk students, from underperforming high schools, with lower scores (and less AP, and in some cases lesser grades), which many on this list wouldnt admit. There are certain hss near USC which are horribly underperforming which USC wont touch, but for which UCLA will admit ~ three-five students. And UCLA will take more at-risk students than Cal. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>Besides, the emphasis on SAT per this thread (and USN rankings) is a bit too heavy, besides the superscoring aspect which creates a lack of uniform standard. SAT scores sans everything else would mean typically better grades as frosh and maybe sophs (sorry for the extreme passive reference to these students). But those with higher grades will surpass those with higher scores but lesser grades, say, as juniors and seniors in college … generally.</p>
<p>Added that the SAT is no longer a standardized test. Higher family income -> better preparation, even one-on-one tutorship over many months of prep -> higher SAT scores. On the other hand, lower family income… poorer students -> cheap review course, I didnt learn anything, etc -> lower scores.</p>
<p>The only solution for re-standardizing the SAT is to have equal access to tutors, review courses, etc, to de-emphasize the wealth factor in this test</p>
<p>… not all universites are out to portray themselves with best foot forward, certainly not UC.</p>
<p>The UC system’s approach, and as follows the individual campuses within, is more egalitarian, which makes sense since it is public. </p>
<p>This is why applicants from top-notch private high schools are not viewed with any greater significance than those from really bad high schools. In the overall state-wide admissions policy of UC, students from better hss with higher SAT’s will certainly bubble to the top.</p>
<p>UC will often time under-report statistics, such as capping gpa, and not-superscoring, and de-emphasizing scores, in an effort to help students from bad hss not to feel overwhelmed in the admissions process to the UC schools and consequently deter them from applying. </p>
<p>UC couldn’t care less about USN’s rankings or specifically rankings of colleges by SAT score. I don’t agree entirely, but…</p>
<p>While the first statement is mostly true, one cannot jump to simplistic conclusions or … solutions. </p>
<p>There is a world of difference between lower income in states such as California and, for instance, states in the Deep South. People who have a modicum of experience with SAT preparation know that tutors come in various forms, and that their availability varies dramatically along geographical lines. In addition, the availability of tutoring help varies enormously among minority sub-groups. Simply stated, you won’t find as many hagwons or similar outfits dedicated to testing preparation outside of California. </p>
<p>Why that is is not hard to figure out!</p>
<p>PS Drax, my opinion of the UC system is obviously quite different from yours. I think yours is extremely romanticized. Let’s leave at that as I no longer have any interest in debating the UC policies.</p>
<p>Pretty beastly of Cal Tech students to average > 725 on CR! You’d take acing the Math as a given, but these appear to be impressively literate, Renaissance-type techies.</p>
<p>I think the UC has enough self-confidence not to worry much about such rankings or bother to game the rankings. They might care about the NRC rankings if anyone could understand or trusted the new ones. The UC crown jewels are not that worried about what Xiggi, US News or anyone thinks. Every time the awards for academics go out you see a fair share of them going to the UC schools and UC grads/profs. They might care about those.</p>
<p>If UC cared, this would be manifested in Cal and UCLA, the two hardest UC’s in which to gain admittance, dramatically shifting their admission policies to match the specific weights in USN’s selectivity variable, ie, towards an emphasis on SAT scores.</p>
<p>As it is, someone with a 3.6uw/2200 has much less of a chance to be admitted to the two than someone who has a 4.0/2000. Let’s call the former’s score 1467 and the latter’s, 1333 to keep in line with the thread’s theme. Someone with a 3.5/2300 (~1533) from a top-notch hs, has even less of a chance, maybe at best 15% of being admitted to the two (let’s say 25% to one of the two). The gpa is generally too low for either, even if weighted by .7 gpa points for a w of 4.2. There are lots of these students who wouldn’t make it past the first pass through, because they haven’t “taken their hs’s resources to their highest levels.”</p>
<p>As Barrons stated, UC is not interested in gaming USN’s rankings. In fact, as I said before, there’s more of an anti-gaming sentiment. UC mainly cares about diversity index, and how to get more heterogeneity on the campuses. Again, after all it is a public institution. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My “solution” was the one that was tongue in cheek. I can’t imagine how this “solution” would or could be implemented. Who’d pay for it?</p>
<p>And besides I’m not sure what you’re saying. SAT prep isn’t primarily based in CA or whatever you’re saying. I’d say the northeast has a lot of these prep outfits also.</p>
<p>But there are undoubtedly a lot of tutors, prep outfits that are based in CA. And the rich have the predominant access to them.</p>
<p>drax, so you are continuing to say that a school like UC Berkeley, arguably one of the top 5-10 Universities in the Country, could care less about the fact that they are only ranked in the 20’s for undergraduate school in USNWR?</p>
<p>Of course they care.</p>
<p>however, </p>
<p>they have other priorities, such as getting kids from California with high GPA’s into the school.</p>
<p>and yes, you are correct, a 4.0/2000 has a higher probabilty of being admitted than a 3.5/2200.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, I find it hard to believe that Univ. of Notre Dame continues to state that NONE of their currently enrolled students supplied both the SAT and ACT scores.</p>
<p>Notre Dame - percent who submitted scores
48% - SAT
52% - ACT</p>
<p>In addition, Notre Dame’s ACT scores seem a little high for the type of student that they admit and enroll at the school:</p>
<p>Average ACT Composite Scores
33.5 - Yale
33.0 - Princeton 32.5 - Notre Dame
32.5 - Harvard
32.5 - Columbia
32.0 - Dartmouth
32.0 - Stanford
32.0 - U of Penn
32.0 - U of Chicago
31.0 - Brown
31.0 - Cornell</p>
<p>My guess is that Notre Dame is taking the top 48% SAT scores and top 52% ACT scores and using them to report, implying that there are a fair share of students with high board scores that have BOTH their SAT and ACT scores reported by ND and some students that have NONE of their board scores reported because of the low level.</p>
<p>If that is still unclear, take a look at the demographic distribution of California, the racial distribution at the best UC schools, and then perhaps plug in the data for Pell grants.</p>
<p>… then state it. I don’t know where you’re going necessarily and where your post fits vis-a-vis my originating statement.</p>
<p>I’m speaking of diversity wrt to those who have been “historically discriminated against.” If you hadn’t noticed, the % of Latinos, primarily Mexican-Americans has been growing in the state, and their children now represent the majority of students enrolled in schools in CA.</p>
<p>UC’s diversity efforts are to encourage and enroll mainly Latino students and secondarily blacks, not Asians. And though there is definitely a lot more abject poverty in the states of the south, there are still some pretty bad poverty stricken areas in CA, with really bad high schools.</p>
<p>Wrt Asians, many of them come to UC from top feeder schools like Arcadia, San Marino, University in Irvine, Diamond Bar, Mission San Jose in Fremont, and the better San Jose hss. All these are areas that have median home prices of near or > $1M.</p>
<p>The SAT is still a standardized test. Ridiculous to state otherwise.</p>
<p>Conditions associated with poverty probably have a debilitating effect on academic performance, especially due to poor childrearing in infancy and early childhood, but don’t ignore the innate components of intelligence and personality. To some extent, children inherit their abilities and drive.</p>
<p>If you removed babies from high-risk environments and placed them in healthier environments, you would probably see improvement. But, some would benefit more than others, and some would not benfit very much at all.</p>
<p>I thought I did. I also pointed out a path for you to see/realize how your comments about the correlation between poor students and low SAT scores does not really apply to California. Hinting to the demographics might have make you see how the large Asian population makes California an outlier when it comes to low income/scores correlation. I also hinted to the fascination and obsession with standardized testing is quite different among the various minorities. </p>
<p>As far as efforts to increase REAL diversity, one could hope for better results. Ward Connerly is still smiling.</p>
<p>Dear onecircuit, I haven’t seen average ACT composite scores by school before. It’s interesting and I’m wondering if you could tell me where to locate this information.</p>