Hello All,
My daughter is confused on what to do? REA Harvard or ED Wharton. Below is her profile and any advise would be greatly appreciated.
GPA: 4.0/4.0, 4.7/5.0
SAT: 1580/1600
ACT:35/36
SAT Subject: Math2: 800, Chem: 770
Took all APs in her public school and scored 5s and 4s
Sports and Extra Cur: Varsity and Regular
She is interested in business and has visited Wharton for summer program. She is not 100% sure to apply for ED as she prefers a collaborative environment and thinks wharton is cut throat and worried of binding. So she is debating between ED to Wharton vs REA to Harvard (Economics). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I saw a thread from last year from a student “IvyWin” and I am not sure where he ultimately went. Thank you all for your help.
I don’t think anyone here on CC can accurately predict her chances. Her stats look strong, but many kids with equally strong stats get rejected from both schools and many other elite schools, so some of it will depend on how she packages her application to convince the University that she will bring an unique and valuable viewpoint to the incoming class.
Does she have an unique well demonstrated skill that these Universities would like? (National/International level, recognition)
Does she have any of the following hooks: URM, first generation, from an under-represented geography like Montana etc, Legacy, recruited athlete etc?
Lacking any of the above, all other things being equal, Penn is usually easier (not easy) to get into. so if she is unwilling to take the risk of an SCEA deferral/rejection and if she will be unhappy at her match or safety school, then go for Penn ED to maximize your chances. Ask her to picture herself for four years at her safety or match school. If that visualization freaks her out, then don’t risk SCEA. ED is a safer choice.
Good luck, tough decision. Hope she lands somewhere where she is happy and feels all her hard work has been rewarded!! She seems like a great kid. Congrats on raising a hard working and accomplished child!
Thank you CollegeAngst! Other than being at state level in Math Bees, Science Bowl and National Merit Semifinalist, there are no more national/international achievements. The only uniqueness she brings is her personality which make me feel proud.
SCEA at Harvard or any other SCEA or EAs to rest of the colleges is only a result of her concern of getting stuck(ED) with Wharton in case she gets into. I do not think there is any other college or program that she fell in love that is forcing her to apply for SCEA or EA. The most experience she has is with Wharton as she spent 1 month there. She is not afraid of competition as she is competitive herself. But the difference is she sets a goal for herself and does not compete with others, where as what she felt at Wharton is you are forced to compete with each other which spooks her out. She doesn’t mind competing in class but she is afraid if that competition will continue from classroom to dorms which she does not want. She wants to have a great collaborative/fun/family college experience while getting a top notch education.
The goal here is to choose from a “A known devil or an unknown angel”
@RonEDvsREA: I understand that, however Harvard doesn’t offer a concentration in business or the business-related courses she would find at Wharton. Your daughter should look over Harvard’s list of concentrations and see if she would be interested in Econ or something else. Harvard is not the best school for everyone, especially when the college doesn’t offer a degree in the subject matter a student wants to study. If that’s the case with your daughter, she shouldn’t apply to Harvard SCEA or RD and should focus on Wharton and Cornell: https://college.harvard.edu/academics/fields-study/concentrations.
@gibby Thank you!
Unfortunately she is not specific on what she wants to study. She is not inclined towards Medicine for sure. She just wants to be in the business field when she works. She is just looking at the areas of study that may put her in the best place. Engineering is a possibility for her, but she feels that it will be waste of 4 years study if she does not pursue her career in engineering. If she wants to do Econ in Harvard, do you think it is worth it (You mentioned “Harvard is not the best school for everyone”)?
Also appreciate if you can comment on my previous reply to @CollegeAngst
Your daughter certainly has stunning stats, but that doesn’t make her chances of acceptance better.
Selective college admissions is not a meritocracy; students with the best GPA’s and test scores are NOT admitted over student’s with lessor stats. That’s why students with perfect stats are rejected every year.
At Harvard and Wharton, Admissions uses a student’s essays, teacher recommendations, guidance counselors report and interview report to choose one high performing student over another. They are looking for students of exceptional “character.” That’s an old fashioned word; it means the way you develop your inner qualities: intellectual passion, maturity, social conscience, concern for community, tolerance, inclusiveness and love of learning. Colleges learn about a student’s 'character" from comments made from your teachers and guidance counselor, as well as what your choose to write about in your essays and the “tone” and content of what you say. In addition, Admissions uses comments made from interview’s report to get a first-hand impression of the student. See interview reports for Jarod, Richard and Theresa: http://asc.yale.edu/samplereports
So, it’s impossible to say where your daughter has a better chance.Your daughter just needs to choose the school she likes best and apply there early. If she is not set on business, then she should nNOT apply to Wharton because that’s all she would be studying. Therefore, that leaves Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Stanford in the SCEA cycle. If she likes Harvard better than YP or S, she should apply to Harvard.
Hmm. “Getting Stuck” is an interesting way of putting it. Usually when somebody applies ED they are thinking “This is my first choice school, if I get in, I will be overjoyed”. If she doesn’t have that feeling about a school, then don’t apply ED to that school. First it may come out in subtle ways in her essays, and even if she gets in, she will eventually not be happy there and will always wonder if she should have been somewhere else.
May I respectfully state that this is a terrible way to pick a college. There are also other options. “The Known Angel” and “The unknown Devil”. Which school is her “Known Angel”? Why not pick that school? I am sure if you spend time on it, you will eventually discover that school. Maybe Harvard or Penn turns into the known angel?
Then again isn’t it a risk to presume that Harvard is the “Unknown Angel”. What if it turns out to be the "The Unknown Devil"after she arrives on campus?
This is actually a really easy question. If she is confident she would choose Wharton over Harvard if she were accepted at both, she should apply ED to Wharton. If not, probably not. However, I could understand a student deciding to apply ED to Wharton if she were confident that, if she were accepted to both colleges, she would have a hard time choosing between them (without being confident she would choose Wharton), and if she felt (probably accurately) that as a strong applicant applying ED to Wharton gives her a better chance of admission there than she would have SCEA at Harvard.
If she would clearly pick Harvard over Wharton with a choice between them, she shouldn’t apply ED to Wharton.
She can’t study business at Harvard, but she doesn’t need to study business to have a good career in business if she’s as smart as her stats make her look. And there’s nothing wrong with studying business at Wharton if she wants to study business.
She has the outline of a good candidate. If she puts the effort into her applications that she clearly does into her school work, she will be accepted at some high-quality colleges (even if that doesn’t include Harvard or Penn). She will be able to start the career she wants to have at any of them. She and her personality will be the key variable, not which college she attends. So her early application strategy is not really a high-risk kind of decision. Stop treating it like one.
Well technically everybody at Wharton gets a BS in Economics not a BBA degree like you do at University of Michigan for example. They do offer a number of business related specializations which is typically 6 courses in that area. So strictly speaking neither Harvard or Wharton offers a “Bachelors degree in Business” like University of Michigan does
@CollegeAngst The Wharton degree isn’t an economics degree. It is called a BS in Economics for historical reasons, it is actually a business degree. The actual economics degree is offered by CAS and it is called a BA in Economics. Harvard;s degree is an economics not a business degree.
@RonEDvsREA Penn is more cutthroat and has more grade deflation than Harvard, and the Wharton curve is an actual thing. But the competitiveness does not extend outside the classroom more than it does in other top schools, and not in a mean-spirited way or anything like that. She will be able to make friends and balance her social life, and have a good experience like most people do there. In terms of social life Penn has more to offer I think, people work hard but in general know how to have fun. Of course the Harvard name and also the less cutthroat and stressful experience at Harvard as far as academics and grades are concerned, can be hard to turn down for many kids. Also ED at Penn she will definitely have higher chances that REA at Harvard but unless she is sure that she would be ok with choosing Wharton over Harvard then it might not be worth doing.
I agree with what @JHS said. Hypothetically, if she were to be accepted into both schools, which would she pick? That should give you the answer you’re looking for. In my opinion, Wharton can be just as hard as Harvard to get into. While Wharton’s acceptance rate is probably slightly higher than Harvard, legacies are more impactful at Wharton so that definitely affects the statistics. Good luck!
Thank you ALL for your giving nature. It has been extremely helpful to have so many people contribute in making knowledgeable decisions.
The fact is she is not 100% sure on any college. so my question is slightly hypothetical and i apologize for it.
In a total RD context, with her stats, assuming her essay is above average (She is very mature, good writer and not a “TextBook” smart types), does she have a chance in Wharton, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, Berkeley and other Ivies? I am so sorry for this question, but would appreciate if you can make a knowledgeable guess.
@RonEDvsREA She definitely has a good chance for Penn, Harvard, Yale,Stanford, MIT,Berkeley and the other ivies too. Her stats are very solid. I guess what she should do now is focus a lot on her main essay and also the school-specific essays and tailor those to the specific schools. Also I do think applying early is a great way to improve chances of admissions so she might want to think long and hard if she is willing to commit to a specific ED school or else apply early to one of the EA schools.
She definitely has the academic credentials to be a serious candidate at any of the schools you have mentioned.
Strategically she needs to apply to schools across the spectrum of admissions likelihood.
Her essays and recommendations will be critical. The holistic admissions process utilizes grades and standardized test scores to get a student to the consideration phase. The strength of their EC’s, essays and recommendations are the items that demonstrate a students character.
Any admission strategy, even for students as accomplished as your daughter needs to include schools that are ranked outside the top 20.
Being accepted or not accepted at schools ranked this high can defy our own sense of logic. IMO it is wise to have at least two match school and two safety schools in the mix.
Your daughter has done remarkably well! Best Wishes to her and to your family!
I won’t predict chances, but I am huge fan of Wharton. Huge. If though she doesn’t know for sure that she wants to have 60% of her classes and what will likely be most of her friends in this focused program she should not apply ED. Everyone at Wharton fought to be specifically there and I think it would be hard and not much fun to be there without both feet fully IN.
@myyaleboy
It is not true at all that most of her friends will be at Wharton. Penn is very integrated and people from all schools hand out, through frats, extracurricular Clubs, organizations, even classes (Wharton kids take many non-wharton class and non-wharton kids also take many wharton classes). That has been my experience and the experience of most people I know. People don’t stay within their major or school, Penn is all about socializing. Also the program is not that focused. You get about 40% of your classes outside Wharton and within Wharton there are many different concentrations you can choose from, and the number of requirements for each concentration is not huge at all. Also another misconception people have is that everyone at Wharton knew they wanted to do business and have had business experience from like freshman year of high school. While there are people like this (more than at any other place I would imagine) there are many, even the majority I daresay that did not have much of a business background. People at Wharton do have diverse interests (to the extent that kids at a specific major or department at any school have different interests) and there is also the rest of Penn to provide a diverse academic experience just like any other ivy would.
If she is interested in an all-around Business education – courses in Accounting, Finance, Marketing, Econ, Operations, Business Law, etc. – then Wharton is the way to go. If she wants a more focused foray into Economics, then Econ at Harvard or Penn is better.
But make no mistake: for management, entrepreneurship or finance, a broad Business education provides more comprehensive prep than an Econ degree.
Why do so many seeking and/or requiring business knowledge get an MBA? Probably, in some cases, because they didn’t have access to a Business school/program during their undergraduate years.
Now, you could major in Econ and maybe take some MBA courses as electives to provide business-practical breadth. It’s just easier to get that training wrapped up in a nice undergraduate Business program package.
