Really? Does EVERYbody work that hard?

Colleges & Universities A-Z Harvey Mudd College
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<p>
[QUOTE=BicoastalMamma]

geek_mom-- Why is it your business if I want to warn other parents whose kids attend bad high schools.

[/quote]

It is my business because you are posting claims in a public forum which I know to be untrue and unfair to people whose intentions and behavior you are misrepresenting. You haven’t just said that “HMC may not be the right school” for “bright children going to bad schools.” You’ve leveled charges of racism, negligence, and endangerment. Those charges are unfounded, and at this time I intend to challenge every such post you make.</p>

<p>Not to mention your reasoning is ridiculously flawed. Here:

Don’tcha think that if they were afraid of his illness, they would have told him not to come into the great big lecture hall with all those other students and take the exam, which was on paper that they would then have to handle?</p>

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<p>I think Bicoastalmamma sounds stressed, with a lot of nervous energy being too far away to help in person. I believe she is trying to do the right thing to give heads up to other families. When you are stressed out over your kid, things often come out in a tone that is more offensive than intended. </p>

<p>Bicoastalmamma - Good luck following the various hints, especially specific email addresses that were added by others. I don’t believe you are a ■■■■■… .but ha… I believed the “balloon boy” family… Ok, we did need some comic relief here ;)</p>

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<p>I am very stressed and frantic. I am not a ■■■■■. geek_mom – You are making accusations with no basis – so just leave me alone. I know what my child tells me; you know what your child tells you. Everyone does not have the same experience. The warning is out there. It is very difficult school. It would really be helpful if you already know physics, calculus, essay writing (look up thesis), chemistry, and computer science before get there. Some of your classmates already will. Obviously, I have other things to do. I thank everyone who sent private message with real suggestions.</p>

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<p>BicoastalMamma</p>

<p>You have to understand that your particular syntax does make you a candidate for a ■■■■■. I thought the same thing when I read your posts. Warning people is one thing, but saying “stay away from Harvey Mudd” is completely different. Also, you seem to be extrapolating way too much based on what you have just heard from your son. </p>

<p>And on a related note, from what I gather there are really only 3 freshman who are in danger of failing out.

  1. is high all of the time and doesnt go to class
  2. goes to class, but just sleeps through them, and also does minimal effort on all homeworks
  3. plays online video games too much. </p>

<p>If your son is one of these 3, then perhaps he isnt being honest with you as to why classes are difficult - mind you stuff you already said has been disproved (such as no extensions because of being sick). But more likely he is just panicking at the idea that he is no longer getting amazing grades like in high school, and is still adjusting to that. I went through similar issues when I first got at mudd, with fairly poor preparation, and I have turned out fine.</p>

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<p>Well Seiken, you cheered me up because I really don’t think my son is one of these people. Though, why aren’t these kids getting help. My son says that the profs keeping telling him, just do OK on the final. I don’t know whether they are not worried or they just don’t care. He is doing fine on classwork and homework, despite being sick. Have other freshman failed a test or an assignment this semester? My son never even received a grade lower than an A- before and those were very rare.</p>

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<p>Oh, what is wrong with syntax?</p>

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<p>“Have other freshman failed a test or an assignment this semester? My son never even received a grade lower than an A- before and those were very rare.”</p>

<p>I don’t think you understand… nearly everyone fails tests at Mudd. They are very hard.</p>

<p>Perhaps your son is being far too critical of himself? Is he working himself sick because he thinks he can pull off HS grades at Mudd?</p>

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<p>I failed tests at a tough eng/tech school, too. Not uncommon at all. Not unique to Mudd. These schools do take some adjusting to, and it can be distressing. I knew my HS math/physics was weak, so I didn’t expect to get stellar grades from the start. By 2nd year, I felt I had made up for the deficiencies I had at the start. Still failed a few assignments, but could generally pull things together by the end of the term. Maybe your son’s situation is not as bad as it seems.</p>

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<p>*Though, why aren’t these kids getting help. *</p>

<p>‘The three hardest things in the world are climbing a fence leaning toward you, kissing a girl who is leaning away from you, and helping someone who does not wanted to be helped.’</p>

<p>While it may not feel like it to you, students here are now adults and have to be responsible for themselves. If you ask for help, you will undoubtably get it here, but we won’t force it upon you. Actually, if you are in trouble and a professor knows it, he will most likely offer to help. Nevertheless, this is an institution of blood and sweat, and you have to shed your own to get through. </p>

<p>*
My son says that the profs keeping telling him, just do OK on the final. I don’t know whether they are not worried or they just don’t care. He is doing fine on classwork and homework, despite being sick*</p>

<p>The professor is clearly both trying to reassure your son that he is not lost and trying to motivate him to study for the final. </p>

<p>*
Have other freshman failed a test or an assignment this semester? *</p>

<p>Holy Christ yes. Many students, but not necessarily a majority, fail at least one hum 1 paper, one section of chemistry, and dont get me started on individual assignments. </p>

<p>*
My son never even received a grade lower than an A- before and those were very rare. *</p>

<p>Welcome to Mudd.
*
Oh, what is wrong with syntax*? *</p>

<p>Here at Mudd we believe in the scientific method, and with regard to the claims you are making, you simply do not have enough data or research on the matter. You hadnt called the professors directly, which by the way I am sure you could and they would be fine with,** nor have you dealt with a large number of Mudders. Overall, such extrapolations are just unfounded and absurd sounding to us. No offense, and I mean that. </p>

<p>*Syntax was not the right word. I probably should have said ‘tone’ or ‘methodology’ or something.</p>

<p>**The physics chair is John Townsend. [url=<a href=“http://www.physics.hmc.edu/faculty/Townsend/index.html]John”>http://www.physics.hmc.edu/faculty/Townsend/index.html]John</a> S. Townsend<a href=“It%20was%20the%20physics%20test%20your%20son%20was%20concerned%20about,%20right?”>/url</a></p>

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<p>Just to add to the point that nearly everyone has some rough exams / assignments during their time at Mudd, here are some of my personal experiences:</p>

<p>1) Spacing out during my first ever physics midterm out of nerves and getting in the 50’s, significantly below average.
2) Failing a hum 1 paper.
3) Scoring in the 50’s and lowest quartiles on my first two chemistry midterms.
4) Getting a D on my first ever tech report in frosh physics lab (For what it’s worth, I talked to the professor and he let me rewrite it and boosted my final grade because of my efforts).
5) Working my butt off in CS 60 and still not getting assignments done, having to drop the class eventually.
6) Getting 42% on an astrophysics final dropping my overall grade down one letter grade (granted though, this one was my fault because I was lazy and did not study).</p>

<p>…and guess what? In the end, I graduated summa cum laude (with highest distinction), with special departmental honors in physics. It was hard, but things got better with time. So indeed, EVERYONE at Mudd is going to have some tough times. The key to success is not avoiding failure or struggles with material, it is persistence and getting back up.</p>

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<p>My son is a junior, engineering major, and is doing well. But it truly is a big adjustment. You can’t possibly expect the grades you were used to getting in high school. But that is no reason to bash Mudd - “don’t wish it were easier; do what it takes to make yourself better.” When I have asked him about the kids that aren’t thriving academically, he says “if you don’t take advantage of the help sessions, forget it” AND “some kids just don’t know how to stop the party.” He has found the profs and deans to be more than helpful. One even personally drove him to an opthomalogist when he had eye trouble, and helped him get his meds.</p>

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<p>BicoastalMamma, I also do not get the impression that you’re a ■■■■■. I think you sound like a very stressed out parent with a very good point to make – that inner city kids (or ANY kids at ANY not-so-good school) who may have made straight-A’s in high school, but whose high school may have “failed” them in other ways – namely from inadequate preparation followed by misleadingly high grades – will likely struggle at HMC. At least I think that’s what you’ve been trying to say. And I think it’s a very legitimate, very important point to make!</p>

<p>Perhaps you should be angrier at your son’s school district and take your anger and frustration to those channels rather than at Harvey Mudd, though. I mean, from what I’ve read on various threads, you believe your son was not properly prepared for a rigorous college. That’s very sad and I think it’s unfortunately too common in our country. You sound like you may have the righteous anger to make a difference where it needs to be made – in your local schools.</p>

<p>Your anger with HM might be misplaced, because how can you blame them for reading your son’s transcripts, grades, test scores, etc, and concluding that he was a good candidate for success at Mudd? They believed in him and complimented him for what they saw as a successful candidate for a very challenging school! If they were wrong, it’s not your fault, your son’s fault, or their fault. It’s the fault of your school system.</p>

<p>I really, really feel for you, because it’s so expensive to start over at a new school by transferring; your son lost out on plenty of other scholarships by believing he was adequately prepared for Mudd; and your “baby” is suffering, unhappy, and not feeling like he fits in at Mudd – either socially or academically apparently. That’s very sad. I’m wishing you and your son the best of luck!</p>

<p>I hope you all get through this, one way or the other, very soon. And I’m sorry you’re taking such a bashing here … I think there are lots of people who love HMC, and they too have a legitimate point that one student’s apparently poor fit does not make Mudd a lousy school that’s full of lousy, uncaring professors and staff.</p>

<p>Good luck, BicoastalMamma! I hope you can find the energy to make some changes in your school system so that other good kids like your son won’t run into similar problems at great colleges across the country!</p>

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<p>Although I was very sad to read about the woes of Biocoastalmamma’s son, I am glad that there was a lot of dialog on Mudd (also applicable to other tough engineering schools). It will help our family and others better understand the challenges ahead before making decisions.</p>

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<p>I definitely agree, colorado_mom.</p>

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<p>I still think that if you did not score 750/800 on Math II, do math problems for fun and think physics is easy, give HMC a pass. Also it does not hurt to have gone to a excellent high school with excellent physics, chemistry classes, have done math in the summers, and so forth. It is a great school for math geniuses and there are a dozens and dozens of math geniuses. The geniuses have a lot of fun.</p>

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<p>I am going to disagree with both of you…</p>

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<p>No, I think give HMC a shot, just know what you’re getting into. Most students do poorly, has your son talked to any of the other students? They’re probably doing just as bad, honestly. (Well, the semester is over, you’ll find out grades soon, I bet he passed everything)</p>

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</p>

<p>Misleadingly high grades??? Seriously? The inadequate preparation comes from the fact that the schools are only equipped/paid enough to prepare them to that level. It doesn’t just inflate the grades thereafter because it’s unable to prepare its students as well as private schools. They’re not at the standards of private schools, their grades aren’t supposed to reflect how well a student does at a private school.</p>

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</p>

<p>No, BicoastalMamma has a point. There is a HUGE cultural imbalance between Mudd, a top private school, and the inner-city kids they accept. Yes, the problem is that inner-city schools are weaker academically than private schools or top-tier public schools, but Mudd isn’t doing anything to help that problem. Sure, they accept them, but they kind of do throw them to the dogs, even if they are the same dogs as everyone else gets, and you get drop-outs as a result. Therefore Mudd does become more hegemonic and laden with rich students who could afford preparations as a result. It’s tough. My friends who are struggling the most/ITRed are from public, poor high schools. (I don’t count the ones who are struggling because they party too much, that’s their own fault)</p>

<p>Schools are supposed to encourage diversity - where is it? Sure, the gender imbalance is lessening, but what about racial diversity? There’s 7 black students at Mudd, out of >700 total students. So much diversity lol.</p>

<p>This is not just about getting students - Mudd tries very hard at that, it looks to me, and I know it’s hard because Mudd is not as well known as other big-name schools which top minority applicants then tend to go to - but about retention too. I don’t know what Mudd could do better in that aspect, because they do already give ridiculous amounts of help, but those that actively get it ARE the ones who know better how to ask for help - the ones from rich families, who attended top high schools.</p>

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<p>very well put apathy.
that’s some quality info</p>

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<p>agreed, thanks. : )</p>

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<p>Hmmpf, apathy.
I wouldn’t disagree with what you said about the grades. I am aware that the schools are not equipped or paid enough to achieve the same end results. I called the grades “misleadingly high” because the kids who get straight A’s at those inner city schools, and the parents of those kids, may be misled into thinking they’re able to achieve something they may not yet be able to achieve. That’s misleading. I didn’t speculate as to cause. Didn’t think it was necessary, since it’s so obvious.</p>

<p>I also know that BicoastalMamma has a point. I spoke up in her defense, remember? I just think that issues like hers could most effectively be resolved where they start – in the communities. It sounds like she’s not getting the sort of attention and help she wants from the college, and she probably won’t, and it sounded to me like people here on CC were not receptive to her complaints. So again, I would agree with most if not all of what you said.</p>

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<p>“I still think that if you did not score 750/800 on Math II, do math problems for fun and think physics is easy, give HMC a pass.”</p>

<p>I’ll say it again - I am none of those things. And I’m having an amazing time at Mudd.</p>