<p>I'm currently a Freshman at Stony Brook University, and I really need out. The school's academic level and student pride is so low that it's driving me insane. I was recruited by Duke and given likely letters from Columbia and Cornell last year, but couldn't go because my parents refused to pay for it. To compound it, I was guaranteed medical school by Stony Brook, which is something that I've wanted since I was young. If I left, I would go to either Yale, Stanford, or return to Duke (I love that school so much). Can someone please help me with this decision? </p>
<p>Here are my stats:
GPA: 4.00 in College, ranked in top 10 in HS
SAT: 1460
AP: lots of 4s and 5s, I took over a dozen exams
Major: History and Chemical Engineering Double Major
Engineering Research for 4 years (will work at Stanford during summer)
Activities:
-VP of College Bowl Team
-Elected President of Freshman Honor Society
-Honors College/Scholar of Medicine (8 year program BS/MD)
-2nd Place in World at Intel International Science and Engineering Fair and Siemens-Westinghouse Semi. Ranked #1 in research in NY State by New York State Science Congress
-Patented
-Published, gave lecture at American Physical Society International Meeting in March
-NSF-REU and Howard Hughes Medical Fellowship recipient
-Co-principal Viola in U-grad orch and member of Fencing club (will be NCAA in 2005, and will be on founding team)</p>
<p>lots of other stuff, but I don't want to bore any of you. Please help me. I'm running out of options due to parental hostility, and I need money so I can't leave till Fall '06. Is it right to leave a place due to low student morale and low academic standards? Even if it offers Med School? I want to be a lawyer (MD/Ph.D, then JD), and SB has no pre-law group. What do I do?</p>
<p>You do not necessarily have to do Pre-Law to go to law school. Moreover, it is often said that such a major works against you rather than for you. If you want to formulate a road plan for Law School, I suggest visiting <a href="http://www.jd2b.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.jd2b.com</a>. That site should give you information on standards and a lot of helpful tools.</p>
<p>Furthermore, your reasons for wanting to transfer are not bad at all. Though I would conjecture that it might be better to stay put. If you plan on attending a Top 15 Law School, you will need to have a lot of money. So unless you earn a scholarship or financial aid, I think it would be better to save up so that you can actually attend a Law School of your dreams. I do, however, sympathize as I am in nearly the exact same situation except for the fact that my stats are lower.</p>
<p>That's exactly what I thought too. I'm looking at scholarships at these schools, and I basically feel that if I don't get them, I can't leave. I'll look over that site, hopefully it will help me as well.</p>
<p>If I were in your shoes I would stay put. Stony Brook has a great reputation, and don't let the fact that it is a SUNY school sway your opinion. Medical school is impossible to get into. Stony Brook is a great med school. Do not throw away this great opportunity just to attend a school with school spirit. When you graduate, do you want a career, or memories of great football games? Also med school, (especially one like Stony Brook which by the way has one of the country's best md/Phd programs) will make getting into a prestigious law school that much easier. You have a long but exciting road ahead of you, with plenty of opportunity to save your money. You sound like a bright kid with a great future. Many would love to be in your shoes.Don't throw it away.</p>
<p>yeah med school admission is killer. I would stay put if i were you. Many people who are appling to med school right now i have really wanted to be in your position during their undergrad years.</p>
<p>beentheredonethat, let me reply to your concerns.</p>
<p>First, my impression of a school has nothing to do with good football games. Remember, Duke's football team went 2-some large number this year. My impressions stem from the fact that there truly IS NO SCHOOL PRIDE HERE. Students have signs in their windows that go "If you thought life couldn't suck anymore, you found Stony Brook." The rate of alumni giving is under 5%, and that's up from previous years. Very few people if any actually like it here. Attrition from the MED PROGRAM is going to be around 50% without me this year. It closes in on 30% for the overall undergrad attrition. Oh, and we're ranked above 100 by US news, so I doubt that we're such an outstanding undergrad. It hasn't proven itself as such to me. Princeton Review also says we're the 2nd most unstaisfied campus in the US, in the top ten for ugliest and for profs who don't care. This is pretty much what I've seen too. Most importantly, my house is across the street from the campus. I wanted to get away for undergrad, and this has done the reverse. Is it that much of a sin to want to leave?</p>
<p>Redwyn, the ambience that is projected from a campus is, indeed, very important. Perhaps one must way the potential risks of applying/going to another school in the long-term compared to an inconvenience that is occurring right now. Right now, you should be applying to your dream schools, not only for admissions, but also for Financial Aid. If both turn out to be succesful ventures, then congratulations, but if they do not, you are still in a rather good positio; there is no harm in taking a shot.</p>
<p>By the way, stick to the Med Program, it will be your strongest hook when applying to Law School.</p>
<p>No problem. Also, keep visiting and posting on these boards. I am not the resident expert on these things so be open to the advice that others provide. Perhaps the greatest tool for learning about the art of transferring in general is by using that neat tool known as "search". Most of the questions I had were answered after I read nearly every post in this forum.</p>
<p>By the way, if you are confronted with the choice of staying put or attending a prestigous college without financial aid, I would regard it as a privilage rather than a curse.</p>
<p>Redwyn,
You asked for advice and then you sound bitter when I give my opinion. Are you only looking for an excuse to leave? That is what it sounds like to me. True, school spirit is minorly important, but it should not dictate leaving a med program. The benefits of a med program far outway that. Students do not attend a med program looking for school spirit. They attend a med program looking for a guarenteed career, and the decreased stress of getting top grades in college. Even if you apply to your "dream schools" you will now be saddled with financial and career worries. You will need to start the tedious application process again, and may be disappointed by the results.Instead of enjoying college you have to worry about top grades anyway so that you will be able to transfer. Seems to me with your mind set that you are not giving Stony Brook a chance. As for stupid signs, I went to MIT and we had stupid signs hanging from our dorm room as well. That is not unique to your school.</p>
<p>As for your rankings, please see the several posts on the bogus US News rankings, many of which depend on alumni contributions. Stony Brook is a relatively new school, and cannot be compared fairly with schools hundreds of years older. Second, your quotes are over ten years old. The London Times has recently ranked Stony Brook 33 in the world for research and top 50 in North America. I'd sooner trust those rankings.</p>
<p>Many med programs attach themselves to schools in order to attract high quality students like yourself. They usually cater to them and judging by your list of college achievements, I'd guess that you are receiving many awards and benefits.</p>
<p>My daughter attended a med program and as a med student attached to a med program she received her pick of residencies and was offered a spot in the Md/phD program if she wanted it. There are many perks and your quotations of rankings appear to me to be a way for you to convince yourself that the grass is greener somewhere else. I am new to this forum, but not new to the college game. Believe, me the grass is NOT always greener on the other side no matter how glamourous it may look to you now. </p>
<p>I believe the other posters are also telling you to stay put, but if you must apply out, weigh your options very carefully, both financial and otherwise. Don't be so hasty. The glamour and school spirit will come in med and law school and they far outweigh any "rah, rah, rah," you will temporarily find on an undergraduate campus. And why do people attend glamourous schools. Right! To get into med school. Many will be sadly disappointed. But at least they can keep their fancy degree as a souvinier! (A very expensive one). </p>
<p>I absolutely disagree with beentheredonethat. </p>
<p>I absolutely think you should transfer. You seem like a top student regardless of where you are, so I am sure you will do absolutely well anywhere. Going to a place like Duke will give you an amazing college experience and a sense of community that you may never experience again. At Dartmouth I can truly say I am part of a community of intelligent, intellectual, hilarious, amazing people. I cannot tell you how important this experience was, looking back I cannot believe it happened.</p>
<p>And the kicker, I also cannot believe how well a majority of my classmates have done. I feel like a great majority of the people I know in professional schools are at the top ones. Med school admissions is killer, but not for most top students. A great majority of my friends are at top 15 med schools. Many in the top 10. I would say pretty much everyone I know got into somewhere of StonyBrook's level at the worst, but many fared much better. My three best friends go to Yale, Cornell, and Penn med, they all had GPAs ranging from 3.67-3.83. This is hard to do, but not impossible by any means. </p>
<p>The biggest thing for you will be financial aid, so my advice is to not only focus on Duke. You will have to take the best offer you get. Look at Dartmouth (very much like Duke except more community/ smaller, also very good with fin. aid), Cornell (bigger...you would be in state with Ag, right? Although sort of bad as its hard to get a good GPA...premed factory haha), Williams, etc. Also, look to Emory scholars, I am not sure how the scholarships work for transfers however...</p>
<p>Sliper, you sound like a young college student. For starters, you notice that Redwyn is a double engineering and history major. As a Dartmouth student you know that Dartmouth engineering is weak to non existent at best. Double major is also impossible. London Times ranks Stony Brook above Dartmouth. At Cornell, a double major is also impossible. That coupled with the fact that engineering majors notoriously get low GPAs in the 3.0 range (especially at Cornell) would make it outright dumb to tranfer out of a guarenteed med program.</p>
<p>As for your friend getting in, they must have been the lucky ones. Med school acceptance is about 4% overall. Stony Brook's acceptance according to world news was 3% Check out the med boards on this forum. Stony Brook was also ranked a top 15 teaching hospital in the US. Many of my daughters friends applied to Stony Brook with 3.7 out of Ivy League schools and did not get in. My own daughter did not make Stony Brooks BS/MD program, but did make Browns. It is very competitive.</p>
<p>Your advice is very immature and feeds into the original posters confusion. You have not given one sound reason beyond thinking that he'll get in anyway (a maybe for even top students). Did you even consider that he wants to go to law school after and needs to save his money? His program (especially the MD/PhD) guarentees a full scholarship undergrad, and free med school, along with a sizable stipend for the PHD program. If you don't know all the facts, you shouldn't be so fast to give advice.</p>
<p>And yes, I am a physician from Long Island so I know a thing or two about what I am talking about.</p>
<p>What were you recruited for last year? You may need to focus on that. Getting a lot of money as a transfer only happens at top schools if you have something exceptional to offer. I do agree that wanting a college with spirit is very rational.</p>
<p>I would not question Slipper's maturity in this case. He is highly conversant on this subject and is far more accomplished than what you judge him for.</p>
<p>I just want to add to slipper's advice: The intellectual atmosphere inspired by camaraderie provides for a superb college experience that I myself am dying to be a part of. Like I said earlier, there is no harm in trying, but also keep your eyes open for Law School and how you will pay for that.</p>
<p>If you are going to be applying to a Top 15 Law School, you must make sure that your GPA is 3.6+, no matter how good your hook is. So if continuing in medical studies will certainly lower your GPA, then you are taking a rather huge risk. There is also a huge emphasis placed on the LSAT, but if you look at the average GPAs that were accepted into a Top 15, the only GPAs below 3.6 were those belonging to URMs.</p>
<p>I apologize to Slipper, I just wanted to accentuate that the older point of view (mine) differs substantially from the younger point of view (his). We both have different prioirities. Not knowing him, I agree that my words were strong. However, I am firm on my opinion and experience in this matter.</p>
<p>If Redwyn is looking for spirit or new atmosphere, he should consider summer student or exchange student to Duke or otherwise, or study abroad. This way he will broaden his horizons and see if he really is missing anything. Remember: this is his first college experience. He may be looking for something that doesn't exist. When he returns to Stony Brook, he will still have med school. The experience is tremendous. What do you think? Makes sense? Personally, a BA, BE, MD, PHD, JD sounds pretty intellectually stimulating to me.</p>
<p>If he still wants to apply, by all means do so, but he should consider the pros and cons of his final decsion carefully.</p>
<p>nspeds, the medical studies will not lower his GPA. He wants to be an MD/JD so he'd need to take those classes anywhere. It is the engineering courses that will lower his GPA, but that will be of negligable importance once he enters med school. So this is another reason why I feel it is prudent to stay in a guarenteed program.Many top law schools love MD applicants.</p>
<p>Let me again emphasize a few things. First, I've pretty much decided that a scholarship is definitely needed for me to leave. That was decided within the first few posts, and I've already started work on that. Second, my GPA is 4.00, and will stay that way for the forseeable future. I'm a ChemE major, so most of the premed requirements are covered by it anyway, so that doesn't matter. My concern about Law School is not getting in, I'll do my best but I think I'll get in somewhere (even if it's not Top 15), but over how much time is needed to complete everything. </p>
<p>With regards to summer internships, I agree with beentheredonethat. I have plans to go to Stanford or Duke this summer for a summer internship. It's my objective to see what I'm missing research and academic-wise. I'll sit in on some classes, talk to admissions, etc.. Thanks again for all your help</p>
<p>I appreciate the apology. I actually graduated recently and currently attend a top 5 MBA program. I feel that the London times ranking doesnt really apply to undergraduate schools, for example, consider that 85% of Dartmouth academic disciplines dont even have graduate schools that they use for ranking! I agree that engineering and top law degrees are somewhat of an oxymoron. Very few of my law school friends were former engineers (business school though is flooded with them). </p>
<p>As for your daughter getting into Brown and not Stony Brook, while that does show how strong stonybrook is, it does nothing to show how it is better overall than the traditional school then medical school route. I have a friend at Brown PLME who ended up at Stanford med, as he realized he wanted to be elsewhere.</p>
<p>As for the money Redwyn is getting from the MD/ PHD, a great majority of schools grant free tuition to MD/PHDs. StonyBrook is no way unique in this regard. As for some of the loans he might have to play if he goes to a place like Duke, most of those loans wont have to be paid until he is a doctor and will have the ability to pay them. Also, financial aid has been getting better. It may be the case that its not worth it financially to go to a place like Duke in the end, and perhaps just for two years it isnt. On the other hand if he ends up getting great aid, why not at least consider it. With a 4.0 locked up and with the strength he has already proven academically, getting into a place like StonyBrook again should not be a problem. The financial issues will be sorted out by the schools he gets into I guess.</p>