<p>HELP! Time Sensitive!!
Which is the best choice for traditional RN Nursing program: Orange Community College, Rockland Community College, Dominican College, Mercy College, Fairleigh Dickinson, Felician College, or Pace?</p>
<p>Best answer i can give to this is find out what the local hospitals pay in each area and decide from there. Local hospitals generally hire RNs from local education centers.</p>
<p>They’re likely all good. Will one leave you with less debt?</p>
<p>I’m guessing that the CCs won’t be BSN’s though. Is that right? Going for the BSN is probably better.</p>
<p>In addition to finding the local pay for RNs & the extent of student debt at graduation from each of the mentioned institutions, you may also want to investigate overall performance of students from each institutions in Board licensing exam for your specialty.</p>
<p>All these schools are in the same general area so I’m guessing the salary range would be somewhat consistent. </p>
<p>The degree would be an Associate from both Orange CC & Rockland CC; all others would be BSN. The Associate degree will take 2 years, the BSN will take 3 years or possible a little longer.</p>
<p>As far as debt to go there–Orange CC & Rockland CC would be the least costly with Dominican not too far behind; Fairleigh Dickinson and Felician would be the most. </p>
<p>As far as performance- Rockland CC has the best pass rate of nearly 100% (but there’s endless controversy saying they deliberately thin the pool excessively to assure that those sitting for the test will pass!) and Dominican has the worst of 69% (they are currently taking steps to add a nclex review to their program etc., to improve their numbers). Everywhere else is in the 85%-95% pass rate. </p>
<p>I don’t know how happy anyone is other than what I’ve read here about Rockland CC. I also don’t know about attending and trying to work at the same time.</p>
<ol>
<li>Do not recommend Dominican since its students’ pass rate (69%, as reported) is far below that of national NCLEX pass rate average. The National Pass Rate average (%) for NCLEX:</li>
</ol>
<p>Year----> 2009 2008 2007</p>
<p>Associate 87.61 86.2 84.8<br>
Bachelors 89.49 87.5 86.4 </p>
<p><a href=“https://www.ncsbn.org/1237.htm[/url]”>404 Page Not Found | NCSBN;
<ol>
<li>From a NCLEX pass rate perspective, although candidates holding a Baccalaureate degree have a higher pass rate than the associates (degree), the difference is not highly significant.</li>
</ol>
<p>You may want to investigate:</p>
<p>Whether
(a) Doing an Associate degree will allow you to finish the BSN without taking additional UG courses, in other words, is there any time / cost penalty in doing an associate degree first, following up with a BSN (other than the normal time to take additional coursework)?
(b) If there is no penalty, is there any time restriction within which AS+ BSN can be done?
(c) Which of the universities mentioned (offering BSN) will give full credits or transfer fully the associate course work taken?
(d) What criteria does Rockland use to filter out marginal candidates (GPA?, Faculty recommendation or other?), If someone is filtered out of Rockland CC, which other CC do the candidates end up? And at what stage of education are the candidates told to look elsewhere by Rockland (Right after Ist semester?, is there any grace period?)
(e) Can you sit in some lectures at each of the institution and find out how the students interact? And perhaps locate some students taking classes who are also working (off campus) to assess their levels of satisfaction and potential issues etc.</p>
<p>Too bad about Dominican College since they are the fastest/cheaperst BSN route. Could the whole reason or at least a big part of the bad NCLEX results be that they simply didn’t have the NCLEX review in place yet as everyone else already has? They are adding one and they say they are also making other changes.</p>
<p>I don’t think there would be a penalty of time or cost by doing Associates first. Seems like if you have the RN, they just require the upper level nursing courses to complete the BSN. Also, some RN to BSN “express” degrees are offered that take 19 months or so to finish.</p>
<p>Rockland CC said if you take one nursing class and fail it, you are required to wait 2 semesters before returning. That adds a full year to finishing their program! If you take 2 and fail one, you can retake the one you failed the next semester without a hold up, except that you can’t take the next course in the sequence. That adds an extra 6 months to finishing the program. From what I have read, many, many people get less than the C+ that’s required and then fail out. The majority fail out after the very first semester. People say that they fail many more people than they should to ensure their high pass rate on the NCLEX- which is their biggest concern.</p>
<p>You could sit in on classes etc., but that would be too late for me because I am starting one of the programs this year. From what I have read from student reviews, Rockland CC students seem to be very unhappy. Some are unhappy with Fairleigh Dickinson’s Accelerated program. Felician comments just say the program is hard, which is fine because it is Nursing afterall. I found 2 Dominican reviews, both were happy with the Nursing program. </p>
<p>Help!!</p>
<p>Is there a private (like Princeton Review type of) classes held in your area for Nursing Board exam? If so what is the pass rate of those who take such types of classes? If one can get RN certification through this route, Dominican may be doable. But at the current pass rate, Dominican is risky. </p>
<p>It looks like Rockland CC is too risky from academic bottleneck point of view. BTW, how confident are you that you can do well academically in Nursing at Rockland? (Hint: if you are close or above their 75 percentile, you may be able to handle the workload without much stress - but verify!!)</p>
<p>What is the cost of attendance at other places? </p>
<p>Can one do a regular (non accelerated) program at Fairleigh Dickinson? </p>
<p>Find out if they have student chapter of nursing association (at various universities under consideration) and get some inside scoop, if feasible.</p>
<p>Of course, it is assumed you have the necessary prerequisites for pursuing Nursing?</p>
<p>I just finished all the necessary prerequisites for pursuing Nursing. </p>
<p>There are a couple different private NCLEX review classes in my area (for the Nursing Board exam).</p>
<p>I’m hoping if I decide on Rockland CC I will be ok, my gpa is 3.5. But I don’t want to hate the program I’m in. Even if it’s tough, I want it to be a good learning experience. And I don’t want to regret my choice. </p>
<p>The other places are more expensive–for example Fairleigh is $30,000 per year. You can do a regular program there and it would take 3 years.</p>
<p>If the nusrisng program at Rockland CC has a high attrition rate, one needs to assess if:</p>
<p>(a) They are admitting more students who are not academically prepared enough or </p>
<p>(b) Their teachers are up to par in teaching or</p>
<p>(c) They are not over admitting beyond their capacity, and use the lower level classes as a means to weed out students.</p>
<p>Does Rockland CC have any placement examination to assess (i) a potential nursing student’s academic preparedness and (ii) fit for their Nursing program? Any placement assessment can help address (a).</p>
<p>Teacher evaluation can be requested from CC to find answers for (b); sometimes it may be hard to get hold of one (for an outsider). The state higher education board might be able to provide some guidance. </p>
<p>Dean’s office may be able to provide some information about maximum student capacity, based on Lab facilities and suggested teacher / student ratio.</p>
<p>They just started using the NLN pre-admission test to determine eligibility for the program. It will apply for the class entering in August. Students were chosen based on their scores, gpa, and prerequisites.</p>
<p>They fill the exact number of spots they have every semester. Then the massive thinning begins. It’s a common knowledge there that what is taught in the classroom is different from what is found on the tests. From other posts I found students are told to just “know everything”. The tests (2 per semester) are actually made up by the Nursing department, not the teacher. Someone wrote that their plan is to teach to the NCLEX test.</p>
<p>Need to have additional information to develop a strategy for successful college outcome (= Graduate with AS degree, be certified in 1 sitting (at most 2 attempts), and then enroll in a BSN nursing program, either full or part time). If there are other definitions of successful outcome, they need to be stated before developing an approach & action plan. </p>
<p>Information needed:</p>
<p>1(a). Overall attrition rate &
1 (b). The attrition rate of students with profile similar to OP. From this information one should be able to get an idea about the likely probability of OP being weeded out of the program.</p>
<ol>
<li>Specific actionable (& measurable) recommendation by Rockland CC for their nursing students to successfully graduate from their nursing program (Not simply stating that a student must know everything - that is too broad, and difficult to measure one’s progress).</li>
</ol>
<p>I could not get a direct answer when I checked with that school about overall attrition rate. They mentioned 105 started, later said 30 finished. They mentioned several times that they had an excellent nclex pass rate. I was told you have to want to be a success in the program and you have to do the required reading and stay ahead to make it.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what to make of those responses. Why wouldn’t they provide me with the numbers I was asking for? Was it to not discourage me or to not scare me off or other? </p>
<p>More confused now than before.</p>
<p>Not surprised; no one wants to advertise attrition rates of their programs; it is bad marketing.</p>
<p>Collecting information from various nursing institutions (that are under consideration) regarding their attrition rate and the average GPA, Standardized scores of students, both incoming and graduating, will be helpful in (i) assessing your probability of being weeded out prematurely & (ii) comparing your position with respect to students who graduated from each of the institution.
Although there are other factors that may play bigger role in attrition, they may not be available for assessment. (Please note that there may be weak correlation between student’s High School GPA, Standardized Test scores and Nursing (AS) graduation rates), but that is what we may have to work with. </p>
<p>Detrmined1: You can gain better insight if you can collect and examine information in a manner as suggested below. This is part of due diligence and will help you make the right decision! </p>
<p>Institution, # Incoming, # Graduating,Incoming Avg. GPA,Incoming Avg. SAT /ACT,Graduating Avg. GPA,Graduating Avg. SAT/ACT,% Pass NCLEX</p>
<p>Rockland
Orange
Dominican
Mercy
Fairleigh D
Felician
Pace</p>
<p>BTW, there are various studies conducted at many colleges to understand and address the problem of attrition in nursing. Do a search and many such studies will be displayed. It may be worthwhile going through some of the root causes, such as working too many hours while pursuing nursing education, academic preparedness etc.</p>
<p>You may also post your inquiry under Nursing sub section, so you can get additional inputs.</p>
<p>Here is a list of barriers to successfully completing a program in nursing, as listed by teaching faculty
<a href=“http://www.monw.org/solutions/2004-Nursing-Education-Barriers-Identification-Survey.pdf[/url]”>http://www.monw.org/solutions/2004-Nursing-Education-Barriers-Identification-Survey.pdf</a></p>
<p>Faculty Perceptions of Student Barriers:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Lack of academic preparation and basic skills (i.e., comprehension, reading, math, study
skills, time management, application and analysis skills, deductive reasoning)</p></li>
<li><p>Job responsibilities while in school
Working too many or full-time hours to support family or keep family insurance
Lack of quality study time</p></li>
<li><p>Family responsibilities
Inability to balance school with family
Child care responsibilities
Lack of family support system
Lack of quality study time</p></li>
<li><p>Shortage of role models in clinical setting
Student attitude
Lack of dedication, values, motivation, accountability and responsibility
Sense of entitlement
Laziness</p></li>
<li><p>Financial issues and responsibilities
Scholarships and funding issues</p></li>
<li><p>Difficulty for non-traditional students</p></li>
<li><p>Vast amount of information to learn in short time</p></li>
<li><p>High stress levels</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Here is another study: </p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.snrs.org/publications/SOJNR_articles2/Vol08Num01Art02.html]SNRS[/url”>http://www.snrs.org/publications/SOJNR_articles2/Vol08Num01Art02.html]SNRS[/url</a>]</p>
<p>“Several variables associated with successfully completing an entry level nursing program and performance on the NCLEX-RN have been identified. In one study of 68 A.D.N. graduates, grade point average (GPA) of pre-nursing courses were predictive of success on the NCLEX-RN while the overall GPA was not predictive(Ref: 7). In another study of 186 baccalaureate graduates, higher cumulative GPA at graduation was associated with NCLEX-RN success (Ref: 8) Three other studies identified having a higher GPA in the science courses was associated with NCLEX-RN success (Ref:2-4)”</p>
<p>Some of the causes for high attrition as listed by Nursing faculty:</p>
<p>Ref: <a href=“http://www.monw.org/solutions/2004-Nursing-Education-Barriers-Identification-Survey.pdf[/url]”>http://www.monw.org/solutions/2004-Nursing-Education-Barriers-Identification-Survey.pdf</a></p>
<ol>
<li>Faculty Perceptions of Student Barriers</li>
</ol>
<p>Lack of academic preparation and basic skills (i.e., comprehension, reading, math, study
skills, time management, application and analysis skills, deductive reasoning)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Job responsibilities while in school
Working too many or full-time hours to support family or keep family insurance
Lack of quality study time</p></li>
<li><p>Family responsibilities
Inability to balance school with family
Child care responsibilities
Lack of family support system
Lack of quality study time</p></li>
<li><p>Shortage of role models in clinical setting</p></li>
<li><p>Student attitude
Lack of dedication, values, motivation, accountability and responsibility
Sense of entitlement
Laziness</p></li>
<li><p>Financial issues and responsibilities
Scholarships and funding issues</p></li>
<li><p>Difficulty for non-traditional students</p></li>
<li><p>Vast amount of information to learn in short time</p></li>
<li><p>High stress levels</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Another study did a literature survey and lists some correlations:</p>
<p>Ref: [url=<a href=“http://www.snrs.org/publications/SOJNR_articles2/Vol08Num01Art02.html]SNRS[/url”>http://www.snrs.org/publications/SOJNR_articles2/Vol08Num01Art02.html]SNRS[/url</a>]</p>
<p>"Review of Literature</p>
<p>Several variables associated with successfully completing an entry level nursing program and performance on the NCLEX-RN have been identified. In one study of 68 A.D.N. graduates, grade point average (GPA) of pre-nursing courses were predictive of success on the NCLEX-RN while the overall GPA was not predictive.(7) In another study of 186 baccalaureate graduates, higher cumulative GPA at graduation was associated with NCLEX-RN success.(8) Three other studies identified having a higher GPA in the science courses was associated with NCLEX-RN success (2-4)"</p>
<p>^^^^ Oops, double post. Sorry can’t delete.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the information!</p>