<p>Hi I just recently applied to 13 top PhD programs in mathematics, and based on the early gradcafe admission results, there is a nontrivial chance that I will be rejected by all of the schools that I applied to :( In case this happens, what are my options? Would it be possible to wait a year and apply again next year? Or should I just start looking for a job right now?</p>
<p>Dear OP,</p>
<p>Don’t count your chickens before they hatch! You may still be admitted to one of those programs. However, maybe you should look into applying to masters programs or less competitive PhD programs. It’s always a good option to look for a job or a research position or something and try your luck next year. </p>
<p>If this is something you want DEFINITELY try again next year, in the mean time find a MS prgm, or a job and/or research position and try to improve your application in any way that you can. </p>
<p>Best wishes,
-DV</p>
<p>You realize not all acceptance letters go out at the same time; that would be foolish. It is not a one shot deal. Also, I would not base my academic future on the self-reporting of an internet message board. </p>
<p>And finally, I do not understand why people are continuously shooting themselves in the foot by ONLY applying to top 10/20 ranked programs and rolling the dice.</p>
<p>There are plenty of excellent mathematics programs which aren’t in the “top 20”. Take a look at [PhDs.org:</a> Jobs for PhDs, graduate school rankings, and career resources for scientists and engineers](<a href=“http://phds.org%5DPhDs.org:”>http://phds.org) to find the kind of program which matches your requirements and apply to one or more you are sure you can get into (ask your professors about this). There are plenty of programs where applications are still being accepted.</p>
<p>second vader, if this is something YOU want then apply again if you are not accepted. Apply for MS first. Apply to wider school (like…not the top 13? maybe apply to 3 top 10, 3 top 25, 3 top 50, and 3 top 100 -but remember- only the ones that you WILL WANT to go if you’re accepted). Unless there is something very wrong with your app you should be ok.</p>
<p>Here is my my profile and the schools I applied to. Besides improving my GRE’s (which I heard is not very important), and perhaps getting one more publication, I am really not sure how to improve my profile in a year. Will getting one more publication and maybe higher GRE scores improve my chances significantly? I am hoping to go into algebraic geometry or algebraic number theory.</p>
<p>Undergraduate Institution: One of the top state schools (ranked top 10 in math)</p>
<p>Overall GPA: 3.88
Math GPA: 3.95</p>
<p>Courses: I have taken graduate level algebra, topology, commutative algebra, real/complex analysis, functional analysis, algebraic geometry, algebraic topology, algebraic number theory, analytic number theory</p>
<p>Math Subject GRE: 820/86%</p>
<p>General GRE scores (Q/V/W): 168/156/4.0</p>
<p>Research/Publications:</p>
<p>-REU at William and Mary, which resulted in a paper that was recently published in Finite Fields and Their Applications</p>
<ul>
<li>REU at Williams College (SMALL), we just recently submitted a paper for publication</li>
</ul>
<p>-Research with one of the professors in my school; we have gotten some good results but have not written a paper yet</p>
<p>Other awards:</p>
<ul>
<li>Putnam score of 50 (top 200)</li>
<li>I received the annual undergrad algebra award from our math department</li>
<li>IMC Third Prize</li>
<li>2nd place in the annual math competition at my school</li>
</ul>
<p>I have applied to:
-Harvard
-Princeton
-Stanford
-MIT
-UC Berkeley
-UCLA
-Columbia
-UChicago
-Northwestern
-Brown
-Wisconsin
-Yale
-Cornell</p>
<p>All top 20 schools. Why did you limit yourselves only to that range? Obviously your academic profile meets muster, however at that level things can start to get subjective. Your profile looks about the same to other profiles of people applying (who might even have gotten into the 90th percentile on the MGRE), so at that point it comes down to the non-academic points that stand out (LOR’s, SOP’s). We’re talking about HUNDREDS of applications for 10 or less spots in a program.</p>
<p>There is still time to expand your search into programs that have end of January/mid-February application deadlines.</p>
<p>wait really will a 90% MGRE score really improve my chances that much? I thought that if you score above an 80%, then your have met the cutoff and your MGRE score does not matter. I am fairly confident that with some preparation I can score above a 90% on the math GRE if I take it again. </p>
<p>Why did I only apply to top 20 schools? I mean if my goal is to work in academia, then I really have to go to a top program to find the best advisors and projects. </p>
<p>I think I can get two more publications in a year, but will that really help my chances? I thought that the most part of your application is your recommendation letters, but I just don’t think they can be that different in a year.</p>
<p>That is a very similar list to which my friend’s son applied a year ago. He has been out in the working world a few years – taught high school math for 3 years and some local community college adjuncting. He had outstanding grades, undergrad degree from Cornell math and a MS in CS from Cornell. He’s really smart! He just didn’t want to go straight to grad school and he and his long time girlfriend wanted to work and enjoy life out of school for a while. He had no pubs but competed Putman and did well (that’s all I know).
Two years ago he applied as a 28 year old white male to every major program plus a few not on this list as well (I read his problem statement for him). He identified specific profs in advance and contacted them to review a paper he had written for potential publication and to inquire if they were looking for a new face . He was literally rejected from every school on the list - but for absolutely no reason he can explain he was accepted to Berkeley with a full fellowship (no assistantship-- just tuition and $$). He’s now working with the faculty member and they did get that paper published. He couldn’t explain it-- he was rejected from lower quality schools and then Berk accepts him full ride. </p>
<p>The lesson I’m trying to say is that there’s lots of subjectivity- something has to grab someone’s attention.</p>
<p>If you’re willing to earn a MS at a school of itnerest on your own dime and then apply to the Doctorate program there or elsewhere that is another plan. if you want to go into academics/research, you’ll likely be miserable working in the private sector. COnsider working for the NSA, CIA, FBI doing mathematics – they have a ton of interesting projects.</p>
<p>Sadly, I think if you are an Asian male (i have no idea) you have even less chance.</p>
<p>Wait I don’t think there are that many Asian male doing pure mathematics.</p>
<p>I mean going to a top grad program in math is hard, but getting a job in academia is even harder. If I can’t make this cut, then there is no hope of an academic career for me.</p>
<p>Although you have excellent scroes, everyone who is applying to Harvard, MIT, Princeton, etc. have the close to the exact same profile. When you look at top tier graduate programs, regardless of the field, there is not a lot of heterogeneity in the types of students that they attract. Most of the students will have the same GRE, and subject GRE scores that you do. Most will have 3.8-4.0 GPA. Most will have the same qualifications as you do. You have to cast a wider net next time. When everyone in the room has blockbuster scores and qualifications as you do, you are no smarter than anyone, you become average. </p>
<p>I suggest that you comb through the US News reports list of graduate schools that have MS programs, and apply to the ones that are pursuing research that you are interested in, and apply. For next year, someone presented a good method of choosing schools, espcially for someone with your credentials. Pick 5 top 20 schools, 5 schools ranked form 20-30, and 5 schools ranked from 30-50. I will assure you that you will be accepted using this technique. Remember picking a graduate program is about the research and not necessarly the pedigree of the school.</p>
<p>This is a trap that gets far too many people. Do you really think the only people working at Universities are graduates of the top schools? That would be foolish. If you attend a top 50 school, I would say your chances of significant employment are about as good as the fellow at Harvard or Princeton. The only legup they’ll have is their prestige.</p>
<p>Long story short, you need to disabuse yourself of this faulty thinking that it takes a Top 20 school to get a Top 20 education.</p>
<p>My understanding is that most math programs do not offer people the option to just pursue a Masters degree. Anyways, would more publications help me if I apply again next year?</p>
<p>
That’s not entirely true, at least in my experience. I have spent time in 3 math departments: one top 5, one top 20, one unranked. The dynamics were quite different. In particular, it seems that the more selective the program, the more effort graduate students put into learning and teaching each other advanced material. </p>
<p>Also, it seems that the faculty at the tippy top programs have more substantial research programs than faculty in lower-ranked programs; this certainly affects the employability of their graduate students too (for research positions at least).</p>
<p>Unless someone is independent and motivated enough to work in a vacuum, it seems that the people in a top graduate program provide a better environment to lay the foundations for a successful academic career.</p>
<p>yeah I am not sure if I will be independent and motivated enough to work in a vacuum.</p>
<p>Also are there paid research positions for someone in my situation? Would I be able to find a job that pays enough to sustain my basic living expenses yet at the same time allows me enough time to work on research and hopefully get two more publications before I apply again next year?</p>
<p>Why would you apply next year; as I said above you haven’t received a rejection email yet. Not entirely sure why you have a defeatist attitude.</p>
<p>As for employment options, someone is hiring these graduates from these “also ran” Top 50 schools (not unranked). If your goal is to teach at the “best” campuses, obviously the more prestigeous the program the better your options are going to be; however just because someone is getting their doctorate from a non-Ivy League program, doesn’t mean their options are community college teaching, with no research ever.</p>
<p>I agree with b@r!um with a few additional remarks: for one, I think depending on what one wishes to study, the top 20 change, and quite obviously, given how insane it is to obtain professorships at those schools, I think the ranking is somewhat less relevant when comparing quality of faculty research. What you want to study starts mattering more at that point.</p>
<p>Student quality is also somewhat independent of rankings; for one thing, a school can be lower ranked on a site like US News but be just as difficult to get into, depending on its size and other factors. Thus, someone who really wants to go there will find faculty of a good fit, and students of exceptional quality.</p>
<p>There is not quite a well defined top 10 or 20, in my books. I can say Harvard is one of the hardest programs to get into. The students in all likelihood are terrific. There are always too many variables, and good
students end up many places. </p>
<p>However, it is quite true that the biggest concentrations of strong students end up at some suspect schools.</p>
<p>Generally the professors at your school and in your department know where you should apply.I assume these are the schools you applied to.</p>
<p>You have great scores and adequate experience. When you are rejected you should find the school that you would most likely like to attend and where the dept has research similiar to your own and pretty much beg for a paid research position.</p>
<p>If you live like a pauper you will survive and can apply and try to get in next year. That is a big MIGHT though.</p>
<p>There are very specific reasons you did not get in to each program and none of them are the same or necessarily due to a lack in your application. Each program is looking for various skillsets. Some need a different skill set depending on the application year.</p>
<p>How many interviews were you offered? Did you go to them all?</p>
<p>You are not alone if you manage to not get into any of your schools. Obviously try again nexy year. Find a way , if possible, to contiue your research with SOMEONE who can write you a letter next year.</p>
<p>
Math departments don’t interview.</p>
<p>
I have never heard of a math professor offering support to a non-graduate student. It’s rare even for graduate students to be supported on research grants. (Standard funding in math are teaching assistantships and national fellowships.) </p>
<p>If you get rejected from all programs you applied to (and that’s a huge if at this point), I’d be 95% sure that there was a red flag in your letters of recommendations. That could be several lukewarm letters or a single outright negative one. I would talk to my references to find out what went wrong, what I might do to improve my application, and maybe figure out if there was one particular professor who I should not ask for a letter again.</p>
<p>I know two now-graduate students in math who worked a non-demanding part-time job for a year after college (think Starbucks or CVS) while hanging out in a math department of their choice.</p>