Rejecting a BS/MD program?

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
141

<p>This was posted by Sakky in March of 2005 under" what if I don’t get into any Med School" discussion. This organic chemistry experience with the cutthroat nature mirrored mine in 1973 at another school.</p>

<p>Well, in one sense, that surgeon was right - there are fewer people applying to med-school. But that by itself, does not make the competition easier. I would argue that the drop in applicants is mostly due to a large drop in the less-qualified applicants who probably wouldn’t have gotten in anyway. </p>

<p>Take a gander at the following link from the AAMC, because it proves my point. Sure, the number of applicants is dropping. On the other hand, the GPA’s and MCAT scores of those who are applying is skyrocketing, as is the GPA and MCAT of those matriculating (which is a proxy for measuring the stats of those who are accepted). Basically, you need far better numbers (GPA and MCAT) to get into med-school today than you did 10 years ago. Look at the numbers yourself if you don’t believe me.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/2004mcatgpa.htm[/url]”>http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/2004mcatgpa.htm&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>I just found this quote from Michael Crichton (yes, THAT Michael Crichton), who went to Harvard College, then Harvard Medical, before deciding that he’d rather be a writer. Crichton writes some nonfiction too, and in one of his books, he talks about his own experience as a premed. Here is a snippet. </p>

<p>“In general, I found Harvard an exciting place, where people were genuinely focused on study and learning, and with no special emphasis on grades. But to take a premed course was to step into a different world – nasty and competitive. The most critical course was organic chemistry, Chem 20, and it was widely known as a “screw your buddy” course. In lectures, if you didn’t hear what the instructor had said and asked the person next to you, he’d give you the wrong information; thus you were better off leaning over to look at his notes, but in that case he was likely to cover his notes so you couldn’t see. In the labs, if you asked the person at the next bench a question, he’d tell you the wrong answer in the hope that you would make a mistake or, even better, start a fire. We were marked down for starting fires. In my year, I had the dubious distinction of starting more lab fires than anyone else, including a spectacular ether fire that set the ceiling aflame and left large scorch marks, a stigmata of ineptitude hanging over my head for the rest of the year. I was uncomfortable with the hostile and paranoid attitude this course demanded for success. I thought that a humane profession like medicine ought to encourage other values in its candidates. But nobody was asking my opinion. I got through it as best I could.”</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.harpercollins.com/global_...60509058&tc=cx[/url]”>http://www.harpercollins.com/global_...60509058&tc=cx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Now obviously, Michael Crichton managed to do very well, getting into Harvard Medical. However, you should keep in mind that he graduated summa-cum-laude from Harvard College (meaning that he graduated in the top 5% of his Harvard class), and he got into medical-school in the 60’s, when med-school admissions were far less competitive than they are today.</p>

142

<p>Having a spot at one Med. School is a big deal, even if one is planning to apply regular route. From what I understand, there are not many bs/md that allow to apply out and retain your spot. There is no other guarantee, going to HYP will not provide it, being #1 in your HS class means absolutely nothing 4 years down the road, people change, college requires more self-reliance and other different skills in comparison to HS, for one, parents are not going to there and there are more responsibilities. Some very top HS’ers are not doing that great at college.</p>

143

<p>^I know what you mean by many top high school’ers not doing well but from what I’ve seen here that’s mainly due to poor work ethics that these students got away with in high school (ex. cramming for tests that require understanding in college v. the memorization in high school). It’s really up to how confident the student is in their abilities (and work habits) coming up to high school. Although I will admit that being in a BS/MD that allows you to apply out is significantly better than being in one that does not. The applying out factor makes it much more appealing.</p>

144

<p>To everybody who has any doubts about the combined programs read the CC discussion
" what if I don’t get into any Med School" . <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/21393-what-if-i-dont-get-into-any-med-school-then-what.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/21393-what-if-i-dont-get-into-any-med-school-then-what.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>The posts are 5 years old but it shows grads taking Special Masters Programs, Grad degrees including in Public Health and all the hoops they are jumping trying to get into medical school.</p>

145

<p>The ability to apply out without losing your seat is going away. The 3.2 gpa’s and even the 3.4 gpa’s are slowly going to 3.5. The trend is also starting toward taking the MCAT even if not binding to let the Med schools see how combines stack up against outsiders.</p>

<p>The funny thing is the country could use double the 16k med school spots to support all the retirements by doctors and the socialized medicine reforms coming. The only way in the future to meet the demand will be to import thousands of doctors a year from Asia.</p>

<p>Accordingly, more US colleges need to build medical schools.</p>

146

<p>^in regard to building up numbers and supporting, it is going the wrong direction also. Since all funds are being cut, it includes funds that will be cut to support Residency programs, making future MD’s even more financially deprived at the end of their educational road.<br>
I also have real experience supporting the fact that some very high HS performers are not that great in college. D. was the only person who applied out of her bs/md, nobody else did. She commented that she was not impressed too much with her bs/md people at the end. However, I do not know how many she was talking about, her program had only 10 spots for freshman, normal survival rate is 50%, they have requirements of 3.45/27, and program was cancelled 2 years after D. started. UG was a perfect fit for her though, she did not like urban location of Med. School, but she would be happy to go there if this was her only choice.</p>

147

<p>My D’s program has a 25% drop out rate now that the gpa went from 3.4 to 3.5. They also used to put kids on probation for a semester but now they just drop them. At the summer ivies some had higher abilities but many had no empathy unlike D’s peers now.
Students who have no people skills but are geniuses should go in to research or medical engineering since we do not need anymore unsympathetic robotic doctors. </p>

<p>Organic chemstry sank me since I could not recall perfectly from memory 12 giant hydrogen and carbon molecules’ individual atoms after they each went through a half a dozen changes. These mechanisms have nothing to do with medicine but are there to thin the herd.</p>

<p>Kids also have a hard time getting A’s from every teacher when they only meet with some of the students during office hours and only a few can become mentored. It also requires studying 6 1/2 days a week with maybe saturday afternoon off to watch a football game. Finally, in college you wind up teaching half the material to yourself unlike HS where they shovel it at you. These are some of the wild cards the top high school performers run into and performance at one is not always indicative of the other.</p>

148

<p>

</p>

<p>hahahha, just because students didn’t apply out of the bs/md program doesn’t mean they are low performers. There are a number of reasons why someone may want to stay in a program, EDUCATE yourself before you speak. And please don’t imply that your daughter was the only smart one because she applied out. I don’t understand how you can make so many assumptions, it’s really getting to a point where I question your advice. Have a nice day sir.</p>

149

<p>Once again, top students can have flaws in their work ethics+study habits. I see it every day; it’s not a big deal. Yes, top 5% students can get C’s on tests, etc. Just make sure you’re not one of those students. There are pros and cons to each side like discussed. In the end it’s up to the student and how confident they are in themselves and where they find the true ‘fit’. Like I said, use BlueDevilMike’s 10 steps to picking a school as a pre-med and if the BS-MD school fits the bill then go for it! If you would be happier elsewhere then go for that if you’re confident in yourself. The end. Why is this thread still alive?</p>

150

<p>"Organic chemstry sank me ",
-Well, it could sink anybody. No, you do not need it for Medicins, but you need to memorize tons in Med. School. Orgo is a test. It was one of the hardest for my D. also. whenever it is very hard, d. just works harder, even when she does not like it at all. Orgo was not the one she hated though like History in HS. She had to spend about 30 hrs for each test in Orgo to get her A. You got to do what you got to do even with insane number of EC’s (according to her pre-med advisor) and unreleated minor. Really, no genius is required, just work hard and you will be there.</p>

151

<p>bsmd11, that is just a father’s pride. I am sure you have someone in your family feel the same way. You will understand when you get to that stage of life.</p>

152

<p>I am in a bs/md program, and I have a father and mother, so I guess I’m already in that stage of life. Mine don’t find it necessary to flaunt, especially on a forum for college applicants.</p>

153

<p>When my D got accepted my Jewish friend remarked that I had Nachas and Kvell (which means basically extreme joy and pride in one’s children and not of ones self). So when your son or daughter gets into medical school in 25 or 30 years you will then be at that stage and your chest will feel like its going to burst.</p>

154

<p>Yes, it will burst, but I don’t need to burst it in front of others.</p>

155

<p>I have 2 kids in BS/MD program: my daughter is in only 1 Ivy league university (3rd year undergrad) and my son is in 1 of only 2 universities in CA (fresman undergrad). And I did not, do not, and will not busrt.</p>

<pre><code>My husband and I just felt good that they survived HS. Now we have the new goal, making sure we still have the jobs to help them with their tutions, and don’t have time to get burst!
</code></pre>

156

<p>The programs (depending on requirements) can let you have a much easier time in college. My brother skated through his program and did bare minimum GPA and no ECs, and medical school sucked after transitioning from 3 years of very little work.</p>

157

<p>Based on all the conversation and writing, it seems like you never turned out be a doctor. You were out smarted by an asian. Hope you are not flipping a buger?</p>

158

<p>“My husband and I just felt good that they survived HS. Now we have the new goal, making sure we still have the jobs to help them with their tutions, and don’t have time to get burst!”</p>

<p>-the same here. We were lucky that D. has chosen to go to UG state public for free. we are also lucky that we are done supporting our oldest many many years ago.
Now, as we are paying for D’s Med. School we are also praying to have our jobs tomorrow and for several more years. If one of us loose it, we have no chance to get another job at our age. And we both are bursting at every occasion, why not? Very proud of kids and grandkids, hard working bunch!</p>

159

<p>Almost chose my state school in favor of the one and only BS/MD program that I was accepted to.</p>

<p>Not regretting it one bit.</p>

160

<p>I love how indecisive ‘pre-pre-meds’ are on this site. And I love how anecdotes from total strangers help them make their own decisions. Why again is this thread not dead?</p>