Rejection from all Colleges. No acceptance yet.

Applying to College
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<p>Got it. You don’t believe that people should apply to a reach.</p>

<p>Are you going to convince your younger one not to apply to a reach? </p>

<p>It certainly is a valid philosophy in life to go for the safe bet instead of a reach, but given the uncertainty of admissions, how exactly do you know what school is a reach and a match? If it is a match is it 100% guaranteed or is there also uncertainty? </p>

<p>And as @bearsgarden points out, reaches can meet the needs of a student, particularly the financial needs since they often are exceptionally generous with aid.</p>

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<p>SAT: 2310
GPA: 4.33 (3.9 UW)</p>

<p>Rejected: All Ivies + Duke, JHU
Accepted: UVA, VT, W&M
Waitlist: Georgetown</p>

<p>Thought I’d make it in to at least one of my first ten. Guess not…</p>

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<p>I hear this a lot–didn’t get into any of my school (that I wanted). Yes, that can happen. </p>

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<p>When students apply to all ivies and ended up getting rejected by all with top stats, more likely it is due to lackluster application, and fit. Just like students know when a school is a good fit (academically and socially), adcoms also know when a student is a good fit for their school or not. The application is a packaging of student, it is a student’s advertisement. I am not in marketing, but I know enough to know marketing/advertisement should be targeted to a certain audience, when you don’t you are diluting yourself. </p>

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Those of us who actually look at the data and actually look at different schools, from top tier to various tiers down, know there are differences in those schools, especially when it comes to outcomes for graduates. It is hard not to when one is paying so much out of pocket. As an educated consumer, I wanted to make sure we were getting the most bang for our bucks. There are people who do not like to do reaches or take risks in life, but it is not always how other people like to approach life. </p>

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<p>@ridethewave Said "Then we did the math. If, for example, Ivy-League schools have an average acceptance rate of 8%, and your plan is to apply to all of the Ivies, on the assumption that one of them has to admit you, stop and look at it this way: Odds of being rejected at each school = 92%, on average. So odds of being rejected at all of the Ivies are about 51%, or .92^8.</p>

<p>Well that math is pretty fuzzy. Maybe taking stats again would jog your memory. There is no dependence on rejection at one school with your acceptance at another. In other words, it does not INCREASE your chance to get in at one if you were rejected at another. Each event is separate and distinct event so your chance of getting into ANY top school is 2-3% regular decision. Therefore applying to all schools does not increase your chances of getting accepted at any.</p>

<p>Since each school is a distinct event a student is best served by focusing on what that school has to offer that the others don’t. It’s like buying a randomly generated lottery ticket, buying 5 does not increase your chances of scoring one that wins, because each time you have a chance of BUYING THE EXACT SAME NUMBER, a probable losing ticket (and for most students they are buying the same ticket, their stats/ECs/Essays all represent the same number)</p>

<p>@oldfort The best thing to tell students with these great stats is that regardless of where they go to school, their achievements there (if they keep up the good work) will set them apart and they will be noticed for grad schools/jobs/internships.Yes the numbers seem skewed because so many of these good students are concentrated in the “top schools”. I can nearly guarantee if these students went to a state flagship they would be recognized. Disclaimer: DS was wait-listed rejected at several of these schools, he as just received an NSF summer research grant and has been asked to apply for a Rhodes Scholarship at a State Flagship. Successful college experience, I think so.</p>

<p>You can see that in those accepted to top grad programs (or any excellent grad program or internship), there are students from all kinds of schools there. Once again it depends on what the student does, not where they attend.</p>

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<p>oldfort, if you take out banking/finance–which if I recall correctly is your field–it’s hard to dispute the fact that students from a wide range of schools do well in graduate school admissions, internships and first jobs. NONE of us want a smaller range of outcomes for our kids. That concept seems to be lost here.</p>

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<p>You are reducing the decision down to one factor that is a) not relevant in some cases and b) not absolute. As I have discussed with oldfort before, my kids ARE “reaching” in life–just not in the common, narrowly defined way people talk about here. My son was accepted to a fully funded program in Asia for the summer, along with kids from many of the “top” schools everyone drools over. He is doing great, despite coming from a match/safety school. My daughter knows what she wants but “reach” itself is not a criterion. Having the programs she wants is. And within those, she will be reaching–she is applying to audition-based BFA programs where the competition is intense and she stands a good chance of rejection.</p>

<p>The other factor for us and for many people is financial. We agreed as a family that we do not want our kids in that awful situation of having fallen in love with a school we cannot afford. So financial “reaches” didn’t get past the first round of the consideration set. That is just common sense. For people like oldfort who can afford whatever schools their kids get into, it’s a different scenario.</p>

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<p>I hope you are full pay? You are pretty much locked out of any merit aid that may be left.</p>

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<p>interesting how much more competitive college admissions have gotten in just two years. i have much higher stats than my older sister (graduated HS in 2012), same/more extracurriculars, worked hard on my essays, etc. my sister got accepted into UCLA, USC, cornell, waitlisted at some schools, rejected by yale, brown, etc. i ended up getting rejected from all my schools except for one (UCSB). my sister currently attends USC and my parents are cal alumni and i thought i could at least get in those schools but nope.</p>

<p>my friends who applied to about 25-30 schools seem to be having the most luck with getting admitted (and i thought they were crazy when we were applying!). seems like this is the way next year’s seniors will have to go about it.</p>

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<p>My son graduated in 2012. 2300 SAT #2 in his class. Great ECs. 4 years varsity athlete. Summer research with a renown doctor. He didn’t get into any IVY or Uchicago. Got wait listed by a couple of them but chose not to pursue it. He did however get accepted by all his safeties and matches some with generous scholarship. He’s currently finishing his sophomore year at Tufts and is absolutely loving it. But I remember the Ivy day 2 years ago and all those rejections coming in. My heart was breaking for him. My 2nd child will be going through college process next year. I’ve started telling her a long time ago not to count on anything and that most likely she will not be accepted to most top school. Better to go into it with low expectations. Looking through this thread seems like things only got worst in the last 2 years in terms of acceptances. </p>

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<p>Honestly in 20 years, there will probably be one application for all schools in the US and students can do it in one shot. This is EXPONENTIAL GROWTH. </p>

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<p>As an international student, I can definitely testify to the fact that being able to afford full tuition will most likely be one of the main deciding factors in your application. </p>

<p>That said, I do think that if you have demonstrated enough ‘diversity’ and your applications stands out from the tens of thousands of other applicants, getting into the ivies is achievable. A Chinese friend of mine who applied for aid got accepted into Harvard, MIT and a few other top schools. He was also confident enough to not apply for any ‘safeties’, yet still managed to come out with full acceptances from all the schools he applied to. Find that quality of yours that really makes you stand out, and IMHO think that anyone stands a fair-ish chance at top schools. :)</p>

<p>I think the application process is a learning experience for everyone, students and parents included. I myself have been rejected to my top 4 reaches (ivies + duke + vandy), and will be enrolling to Purdue this fall. So to the OP, the odds seem to be against you at this point, but with stats like yours, apply to a community college for your first year, get a stellar grade, and transfer to your dream school. Sounds harsh, but let this be a lifelong lesson: just because you are good/excellent/fantastic/brilliant, doesn’t mean that colleges and universities will be fighting for the chance to admit you. Evaluate your own circumstances before letting your ego lead you by the nose!</p>

<p>Don’t give up hope at this point!! Let this be a motivation for you to get into your dream school. Good luck!!! :)</p>

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<p>Exponential might be a tad too much. Here’s how some of the most competitive schools in the nation have grown from the Class of 2012 to the Class of 2018 in terms of applications (from 226,000 at the ten schools to 314,000 this year. Admits have remained in the 26,000 to 29,000 in most years. The average rate of admission fell from 12.4 percent to a bit below 8.40 this year. The latter number is bound to increase with WL admits and summer melt at many schools. </p>

<p>47.49% Brown
45.97% Columbia
30.14% Cornell
16.68% Dartmouth
24.88% Harvard
56.48% Penn
24.67% Princeton
35.59% Yale
66.68% Stanford
37.03% MIT
38.88% Total Ivy League plus MIT/Stanford. </p>

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<p>Do people actually believe this?
We are talking about students with top stats who are applying to so many schools because they know the odds. If they didn’t know the odds and were convinced of their infallibility, they would apply to only 1-2.</p>

<p>Those students are smart enough to know that just phoning it in is not enough and they they need to customize the supplements to talk about fit. For anyone who reads CC during the application season, they would see plenty of discussions about this among applicants.</p>

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<p>Tough year . . </p>

<p>ACT: 32 (34M, 33E)
720 Bio 750 Math II
GPA: 3.89 UW
no ranking
Junior/Sr Year course load - all college honors because I live on campus at an early college high school (have 60+ college hours)
Leadership, ECs, Research, paid lab assistant, Questbridge
White male, 80K
Acceptances: NONE (Duke, Vandy, USC, Tufts, NWestern, UChicago, UPenn, Ponoma, CMC - free apps b/c of QB)
Accepted: UT-McCombs, A&M BHP, SMU Cox BBA Scholars (lots of scholarship money), UT-D with full ride
Waitlisted: NYU, Emory, Grinnell</p>

<p>Thoughts: going to early college meant all STEM classes, only two years foreign language, no varsity sports, no UIL, no ranking; smartest kids (perfect stats) at my high school/college have had same outcome.</p>

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<p>That is a strawman argument. No one ever said that students apply to a reach just because it is a reach.</p>

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<p>You said “No…This “reaching” seems to be the province of a small subset of college applicants” when I said that people tell others to apply to some reaches.</p>

<p>Yet your daughter is applying to reaches that according to you she has a good chance of being rejected. </p>

<p>Seems this “small subset” is bigger than you think. 50% of your own household LOL!!</p>

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<p>fluffy, it is different in the performing arts. A student has to be academically admitted AND make it into the audition-based program as well. Some programs require auditions for BFAs but not BAs in the same program. Students at some schools can audition for sophomore year if they don’t make it freshman year. And some offer performance opportunities that are not just for majors. I am sure no one else is interested in these details for the purposes of this discussion, so can we please get back to the subject at hand?</p>

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<p>Lackluster applications? Perhaps not, but the chances that the applications would be lacking in different elements is really high. For instance, only a naive or inexperienced teenager would believe that the importance of best fit is overrated. Hence, the question about how serial applicants are attempting to show the adcome to all eight Ivies are their … first choice. How does one pretend that the bucolic environment of Dartmouth is one and the same of urban Philadelphia? How the classical education of Columbia is one and the same of Brown’s free for all? </p>

<p>The reality is that, except for being part of the same “league” the schools are quite different. Although not impossible, it takes quite an effort to build such a comprehensive package of SUCCESSFUL applications. </p>

<p>Fwiw, I believe that you might overestimate the capabilities of students to complete more than a few compelling applications. Spend enough time on this forum, and you will find out that most students end up submitting applications at the last minute, and most report having failed to edit their essays very well … or written decent essays in the first place. If you ever embark on the frustrating path of trying to help students write better college applicatios, you will see how abysmal the level of understanding of the process truly is, and how lacking the writing is among many applicants, including the very best who come to CC. After a while, you might see how extremely brilliant kids shoot in their proverbial foot by composing horrible essays … and ruining their chances. Being smart is one thing; knowing how to build a compelling list of applications that work is quite another! </p>

<p>But, obviously, you are entitled to your opinion and based it on your experience. </p>

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<p>I don’t think that the use of the common application has contributed to an increase in the number of schools that students apply to. Most schools who use it require multiple supplemental essays and it did not seem as though it was much of a time saver for my 2 students (I think it does save the folks writing recommendations and guidance counselors time as they don’t need to submit recommendation letters/grades, etc. multiple times to different schools).</p>

<p>My 2 daughters with great stats attended a highly ranked public charter school with many ivy stats students. Due to the sheer number of students at her high school applying to all of the ivys and top tier schools, my oldest daughter (2300 SAT, 4.0 u/w, 7APs, good ECs, etc), was counseled that all of the ivys would be a reach. Same story for daughter #2. </p>

<p>We did not even waste any energy applying to ivys. Daughter #2, a senior this year, has been admitted to every school to which she applied, UNC Chapel Hill, William and Mary, University of Richmond, Wake Forest, Villanova, University of Delaware, Clemson University, University of Alabama, George Mason University.</p>

<p>Since she was not certain of major, she applied to schools which would give her good options. We were hoping to get significant merit aid, and she got several full tuition offers and significant aid from most. She thinks she wants to attend graduate/professional program and she/we did not her to have a large amount of undergraduate debt. </p>

<p>The University of Alabama was younger daughter’s safety - rolling admission, so she was admitted in October, full tuition+ scholarship for 5 years for NMF, which can be used for graduate programs as well. Nice campus - a great back up plan for any high stats student who is hoping to get into top tier schools.</p>

<p>She will attend the University of Richmond on a full tuition scholarship. Her older sister is there on a full ride - it is a fabulous school, older daughter has been doing research in a lab since freshman year, with paid summer research as well. Great travel abroad programs and career placement, too. </p>

<p>To think that great schools like UR are considered safeties or provide an inferior educational experience seems so crazy to me!
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<p>Actually the chances do increase when one applies to more schools. I know kids who have gotten into one out 15 or other large number of highly selective schools, with half of them being WL status and the rest denials. No way anyone could have picked that one acceptance from the list and had that student not included that school, it would have been a strike out in that strata of schools where the acceptance rate is so low. I know kids accepted to H and not P and Y. And I can go round robin on those and throw in some others as well. My Son’s girlfriend was denied ED to Princeton some years ago, and got into H and Williams RD, and denied by Amherst , Stanford and Yale. Did well with schools the next selectivity percentage group lower . But she nearly did not apply to Harvard as she had connections with P and Y, and when she did not make the ED cut with P, she figured it was futile to apply to H, a school where she had no connections at all. So, yes, it pays to apply to more My son’s good friend is marveling that he got into Tufts still, as it was a last minute inclusion and he did not get into any peer schools and even some not quite as selective. That one extra school did the trick. </p>

<p>The fact of the matter is that some kids who apply to all the top picks are highly unlikely to get into any of them, whereas some of such kids do have a bit of a better chance, but we can’t pick and choose those, outside of looking at some special pools. Absent that, it can be difficult to tell until the results come out. But, by and large, those kids with truly top numbers, will get into some of the top schools, though not necessarily those at the very top, because there are simply not enough seats in those to accommodate all, and some cuts simply have to be made. </p>