<p>
</p>
<p>Results of just one of the studies quoted in the article. Have not made it totally through it yet.</p>
<p>Sorry it was hijacked, the fact is and should remain…the NAVY will be fortunate to have you. Keep trying for what you want, but the academy is not he end all, you can have a great career and be VERY happy. </p>
<p>These are the years, that you will look back on with fondness. You do not know what you will do in 5 yrs., but will you know now is that you want to serve.</p>
<p>I will say again, you may have been “not selected”, by the academy, but you are an asset to Navy. GO FOR IT!. If you want to reapply, you already knew where your short comings are, if you get to Norwich and love it, that is great too!</p>
<p>The Academy is not the end of a career, not following the dream is!</p>
<p>Simayan, again I am sorry that this thread took a route it shouldn’t have. Just keep believing, if the Navy is where you belong it will happen. You can have a very successful career without being a “ring knocker”. Believe in yourself, and no one can stop you.</p>
<p>FOR ALL OF YOU THAT DIDN’T GET AN ACADEMY SLOT, DON’T GIVE UP</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>At CGSC,(Ft. Leavenworth)which is PME for 0-4 they accept sister services, we had 60 AD Navy officers and 60 AF officers. It is a high honor to be selected for a sister branch</p>
<p>PME is Professional Military Education. When you are selcted for 0-4 you are selected for promotion, the branch will determine if you are eligible for in residence (this is a seperate board). My point was that, only 25-50% attending the sister school were acad grads, and those eligible for in residence went to their branch school, and thus, you can still have a great career without being an acad grad.
Simayan to you and everyone else who received the thin envelope it is not over. Keep dreaming, Keep striving, Keep believing </p>
<p>We all still believe in you and are rooting that the service is lucky to have you. Keep going!</p>
<p>for those of you who are not getting the news from USNA that you hoped to hear…PLEASE remember that there are many ways to reach your dreams…
think about ROTC, think about talking to a Navy recruiter and it you haven’t already taken an ASVAB test…go do it. Your scores might help direct your military enlisted career that would be something you draw great fulfillment from.</p>
<p>And if all else comes to a stop in a military career - all the drive all the heart, all the effort you have put into your application to USNA is what makes you a great gift to the future of our country. Don’t stop being who you are…face this time of grief, for indeed that is what you are dealing with - then move forward knowing that you are someone who will make your country proud be it in military service, or outside the military.</p>
<p>My heart goes out to each of you ‘thin letter’ families. Please continue to keep us posted on your live’s progress. There are alot of families rooting for you!</p>
<p>This is a Naval Academy forum. Factual information must be presented. Nothing against OCS, NROTC, or any of the other acquisition sources, but, all things being equal, Academy grads are better prepared to enter the fleet, and will subsequently do better. All consoling aside, we can not lose sight of that fact. Those who initially apply are aware of that fact. Those who are initially unsuccessful must ascertain from admissions their chances of subsequent admissions and plan accordingly. For many of these, rightfully so, ROTC is a poor substitute. Performance statistics support this. It should be their decision based on factual Navy statistics, not anecdotal AF situations. If USNA were not the most cost effective source of quality officers, there would be no reason for it’s existence. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Still not sure where you are headed with this. The Navy has no staff college requirement for O-4, actually we don’t even have a staff college. We have utilized the Armed Force Staff College, but primarily as a ‘stash’ for junior officers between assignments awaiting their particular desired billet. I think DoD caught on, however, and that practice has even been curtailed. There is the JO course at the War College but it is by no means mandatory.</p>
<p>So, even if you are continuing to insist on shoving AF statistic in a Navy hole, I think your comments above prove my point. The Navy has around 50,000 active duty officers, the AF 67,000. So, even thought the AF uses LtCols to do the job that a LT would do in the Navy, we can assume more AF O-4 promotions annually than Navy. Since both academies produce approximately the same quantity of officers annually, for sake of this discussion we will assume the same numbers from each academy in the O-4 promotion zone. </p>
<p>If you have followed me so far, now interject the fact that less than 20% of Navy O-4s in zone are USNA grads. Therefore, if the wide range of 25%-50 is Navy and we pick the center of the range at 37%, an Academy grad would have twice the chance of attending CGSC as a non-Academy grad. Since, with the AF, there are probably more AF O-4s with the same number of AFA grads as Navy, the odds or even higher for the student to be an AFA grad, probably in the range of 3 times. Pima, thanks for helping to show everyone the value of an Academy education.</p>
<p>Remember, we are solely discussing initial acquisition with all other things being equal. Anecdotal examples will be all over the board but overall statistics support what I have stated.</p>
<p>Oops, I think you are mistaken.</p>
<p>For all young cadets, this is the best year of your life. It’s basically just going to college again, and playing alot of golf!</p>
<p>The Marines also have one located in Quantico VA.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>BTW each school takes a limited number of sister services. The AF is in Maxwell, AL, the Army is in Ft. Leavenworth. Ther are also slots as great as Australia and Italy.</p>
<p>Going back to my point, don’t give up, you can still be the top. As you can see they select very few per year, and you can oly apply during certain years for the school. You cannot apply without the convening board selecting you, even then you may not be selected to attend. It is an honor, seeing as only 240 0-4’s for your yr group will go.</p>
<p>Keep going strong, keep believing that you are all the best, because you are. Never ever question your dreams, your will and determination is exactly what will make you an excellent officer</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Probably not. Again, maybe you are attempting to mix apples with oranges. Your description of Ft Leavenworth is that of a JO staff college, a stepping stone for O-4. I am taking your word for this. I don’t know. As you have noted above, the Naval Command and Staff College, the emphasis is on the command portion, with students, as noted, being in zone for both O-5 and command. This is exactly what I referred to above as the War College JO Course. Apparently, from your input, two different entities, entirely.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think was pretty clear it is for 0-4. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Pretty clear that you are not
You would actually be at least a couple of yrs below zone for 0-5 at the point of selections, since it states they select from 0-4 selectees. In other words, they haven’t even pinned on 0-4 when they are selected. </p>
<p>I think you are confusing Staff college with War college. War college is for 0-5 being primed for a senior command and 0-6 level. The military now requires every 0-4 to complete this course, either in residence, which is an honor, or by correspondence to be eligible for promotion to 0-5.</p>
<p>BTW CGSC stands for Command and General Staff, sounds very similiar to Navy Command and Staff. The Air Force is known also as command and staff (ACSC) and the Marines is known as command and staff. All of these are for 0-4. The only ones that know they will definetly go is bpz</p>
<p>Not following you at all. If CGSC is composed of O-4s selected for O-5, I completely misread and misinterpreted your initial posts. The Naval College of Command and Staff is one of the parts of the Naval War College, the JO portion of the War college to which I was referring above. It is designed primarily for O-4s, shortly before making O-5 and assuming command. And unless I am grossly misinformed, not required for promotion to O-5.</p>
<p>QUOTE: USNA69:This is a Naval Academy forum. Factual information must be presented. Nothing against OCS, NROTC, or any of the other acquisition sources, but, all things being equal, Academy grads are better prepared to enter the fleet, and will subsequently do better.:QUOTE</p>
<p>Is this something that makes USNA “stand out more” than the other academies? From the army and air force side, I have seen many ROTC graduates outperform many academy graduates. I don’t think the institution guarantees any type of subsequent success. USNA will provide you with a different atmosphere though.</p>
<p>Don’t stress over it. I was talking to my BGO, and he says there are people who reject a direct appointment to go to the Foundation or NAPS. I know you didn’t get a prep school, but 1/3 of the incoming class has at least a year of college experience. </p>
<p>I was also talking to a person who dropped out of the USNA years ago, and regrets it. He said that he should have waited a year or two before entering, to help him prepare academically, and mature a little bit more before entering the hardest college in the nation.</p>
<p>Just remember, education is never wasted. Spend a year in Norwich, learning as much as you can, and show the admissions office you can handle tough classes and a military lifestyle. It’s a win-win situation for both the admissions office and you-the admissions office will get a good Midshipman, and you’ll have an easier time with the Plebe classes since you were already exposed to some of the material, assuming you take Calculus, Chemistry, etc. </p>
<p>Spending 1-2 extra years getting into the Academy is nothing compared to the grand scheme of things.</p>
<p>Best of luck to you!</p>
<p>You should also call the admissions office and your BGO. Ask them what you can do to make yourself a competitive applicant for next year’s class.</p>
<p>If USNA is your goal, then do not give up hope but start planning on how to reapply. At the same time, look at all the available options to become an officer through alternative routes. Let me tell you a story about my son. He received his thin letter and began the process of deciding on his alternatives. It wasn’t long after that letter arrived that he received a phone call asking if he was still interested in an appointment. Of course he was thrilled and gladly accepted. Now, he is just 62 days and counting away from graduation. He told me that he knew in his heart that he would get to USNA one way or another and he absolutely never gave up his confidence in that fact. In his case, that moment came sooner than it may for most that receive the thin letter but the bottom line is don’t give up on your goal. Just find a new way to get there. Good luck!</p>
<p>wow USNAMom! what happened there? was your son on a waiting list? did they make a mistake in admissions? how do they reject you and then accept you a few days later?</p>
<p>^^^^^^^The waiting list was created within the last two or three years to prevent situaions exactly such as this. I am sure they get a better ‘rate of return’ from wait listed candidates than from the previously rejected ones. I still haven’t decided, in my opinion, which is best for the candidate.</p>
<p>My son’s case is a long story. He actually found out about his rejection live, if you will. He walked into admissions in early April and asked what his status was since he had not heard anything. No mention of a wait list, etc. They told him that he would receive his rejection letter that week. He told them that they would hear from him again and he walked out of the office. During this time, he continued to contact the coach in his sport, sent some updates to his file, etc. Don’t know what tipped the scales or what happened to open the door to him. We are just very grateful that it did. In 2004, it was also the year that 9 lucky individuals got a call the day after I-Day offering them an appointment and they promptly reported and worked their tales off to catch up to the rest of the Plebes. I have no doubt that these 9 lucky individuals made their intentions well known to admissions and were at the top of the list for an appointment if a space became available. They too received the dreaded rejection letter but were flexible enough to report in less than a week when they got the call. Can you imagine filling out all the necessary paperwork in that short period of time?!!! That speaks volumes about their desire.</p>
<p>Back to some of the early questions…</p>
<p>My advice has always been to go for the commission. An academy provides more contacts and opportunities, and better training than other programs but there are plenty of non-academy grads who have been successful. There are many academy grads who did not get in on the first try. </p>
<p>Norwich cadets don’t like the place? What percent of Midn don’t like USNA? No commissioning program promises a fun or easy course. One of my classmates did rat year at VMI then plebe year. I’m certain that he has no regrets now. If you don’t want to quit at least once a day during plebe year you’re either not being challeged enough or you are a masochist. </p>
<p>CNO’s commssioning source is not a great metric to use in this discussion. IIRC most USMC commandants have not been USNA grads. My belief is that USNA does not run the Navy to the extent that the Army and Air Force are controlled by their academy’s grads. Somebody already pointed out that your attitude, actions and responses to challenges, not commissioning source, will dictate your future. </p>
<p>/USNA grad. Enrolled in Norwich online grad program.
//Have yet to set foot on the Norwich campus. I do know a '70 grad who doesn’t hate the place and had a successful Army career.<br>
///My brother has a Bowdoin College classmate who is an admiral. Possibly the only Bowdoin grad of his era to go Navy.<br>
////Has anybody more involved than a Turkish Army officer ever studied USN officer retention? That might explain a few things.</p>
<p>militarylife:
one of your classmates did a year at vmi and then plebe year at USNA? i’m considering doing that as well. i’m accepted to vmi now. did he ever tell you how that was? what year was he at vmi? i’m trying to figure out how it would work now.</p>
<p>DSL, </p>
<p>Unlike many normal colleges where you may receive credit for say a freshman year spent at another college, service academies break down progression into military and academic requirements. In other words you can’t avoid Plebe year but you can receive credit for your academic efforts as a freshman or in the case of VMI as a “rat”. If you went to VMI this year and then applied to the USNA next year and were accepted you will have the opportunity to validate or test out of a number of courses and begin your Plebe year further along academically than an incoming Plebe entering right out of high school. If you test out of typical Plebe/freshman classes you will start your academics in classes that you would typically associate with a youngster/sophomore year. You won’t graduate any earlier but you will have more flexibility and other potential academic options as you move up.
My son met a prior Marine that is a member of 2011 that moved from his Marine service to the Citadel. He then applied to the Naval Academy and received a NAPS slot, finally entering the place he always wanted to go as a Plebe this past year. I can’t think of a better example to give you than that of what determination can do. If you really want it, and give 100% I’m sure you’ll get there. Good Luck.</p>
<p>DSL, </p>
<p>Probably hasn’t changed much since the Carter administration. The first year at any military college has too much character building to be pleasant. </p>
<p>I didn’t ask the VMI guy about of his experience, though I remain impressed by his motivation to take two years of plebeness. I ran into him as we were approaching the 20-year mark in the reserves, so he obviously wasn’t too burned out by the experience. </p>
<p>I concur with RJR’s assessment of validation. I never understood why the academies require a test and don’t offer transfer credit. A year at VMI will also give you a leg up on drill, shoeshining, and other entry-level military training. Note also that if you have heavy validation you can double-major or start grad school as a first class. </p>
<p>I’m not aware of any recent examples but the academies have had people arrive who already had a Bachelor’s degree or who had previously been commissioned (post-WW2 era).</p>