Rejection Options?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
1

<p>The Naval Academy is my number one college of choice. However, let's say I'm rejected. </p>

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<p>Because you don't need any extra scholastic work on you're resume, do you just go and apply elsewhere at a civilian college and apply for an NROTC Scholarship?</p>

2

<p>It’s been awhile since I have stopped in to CC but will offer what I can in terms of what to do when the skinny letter comes.</p>

<p>The first thing to remember is that gaining an appointment to USNA is a competitive process, with many deserving candidates vying for a limited number of seats. The competition gets stiffer each year, and this year is no exception. Being deemed a triple-qualified candidate is a feather in one’s cap, even if it does not come with an appointment in hand. There will be many triple q’d candidates with nominations in hand that will not be offered an appointment for this admission cycle.</p>

<p>There is no formal request for NAPS and /or the foundation program-all official candidates that are not selected for a direct appointment are automatically considered for Naps or the foundation program. NAPs numbers between 200-250, while the foundation program selects roughly 60 candidates from those referred to them from the admissions board- thus, foundation is yet another competitive process. </p>

<p>Roughly by the numbers-
Approx 19k-20k start applications to USNA
of those, about 10k are deemed official candidates
Of those, roughly 4k receive nominations
of those, roughly 2k are deemed triple q’d
of those, this year about 1200 will be offered an appointment.</p>

<p>Which leaves lots of candidates that need to consider other options.</p>

<p>NAPS: primarily used for enlisted who are selected for their leadership potential to attend USNA; it is also used for athletes that need additional academic prep for USNA. Odds of getting NAPS without coming from the fleet or without being a recruited athlete is very slim. Again, only about 250 attend each year, from which roughly 200 make it through to attend USNA.</p>

<p>Foundation: the admission board refers roughly 600 candidates, from which about 60 are selected. You need to attend one of the foundation schools, complete all academic requirements with B or better, stay out of trouble, stay physically fit, get good teacher recommendations and obtain a nomination in order to have your ticket stamped for USNA for the following year. </p>

<p>NROTC: is an available option and is another road to the goal, considering the goal is to be a naval officer. [that should be the goal, after all]. Lots of opportunities through Nrotc program. </p>

<p>You can always reapply to USNA as long as you do not pass the max age requirement; keep in mind approximately one-third of each admission class has at least one year of post-high school study under their belts, either from NAPs, foundation program, or a year of college. </p>

<p>Keeping all of this in mind, the wise candidate will have alternative plans in place.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for the solid insight, it really clears up a bunch of gray area for me!</p>

4

<p>Wow! a post from a true “senior” member of the ol’ CC. [Been a long time since N2010 posted.]</p>

5

<p>Okay- I have to ask this. I keep reading “triple qualified” Do you actually get a letter that has those words in it? My son has been found medically qualified, has a congressional nomination from a very competitive district 3 TX - is a National Merit Commended Scholar, National Hispanic scholar ACT 31 SAT 670/670 plenty of EC’s and had no problem with the fitness test. But we never got a letter with those actual words- now I am getting worried.</p>

6

<p>There is no “triple qualified” letter that comes from teh Academy.</p>

<p>The NA does use the terminology, internally, that a candidate is fully qualifed; but you will not get notice of that.
If your son has passed the CFA, which he will know by accessing hsi file and has been found to have passed the medical examination,and submitted all of his academic paperwork [academically qualified] then his is “triple qualified,” a vernacular term of art adopted by applicants.</p>

7

<p>Retired Navy Warrant Officer here. My job in the Navy was to tell Senior Officers what no one else wanted to tell them, so here it is:</p>

<p>My son just got rejected two weeks ago with the following:

  • Presidential Nomination
  • Senator Nomination
  • Congressman Nomination
  • Letter from our Governor
  • Endorsement Letter from local Chamber of Commerce for Oustanding Leadership
  • Endorsement Letters from former USNA Flag officers and O6s
  • 3.85 GPA (Honors and AP classes) (Honor Society, etc…)
  • 31 on ACT
  • Attended 2011 Summer Seminar
  • Passed Medical exam
  • Varsity Track</p>

<p>What did we learn? Nothing. We have no idea why he was rejected. The rejection letter recommends he take an engineering or science degree in college (he already is a declared Physics major) and take Calculus (already done) and try again next year. My son thinks the USNA is clueless and I have to agree. What do we improve on for next year? We have no idea.</p>

<p>Here’s what I pass on. Be very careful during your Blue and Gold Officer interview and any interview with a USNA Junior Officer (one came to our city to interview my son). Do not speak your mind, tell them exactly what they want to hear, (Yes, I want to attend NAPS, Yes I will consider other options if not accepted to the USNA, Yes I am applying to every branch academy school available) Get the picture? Even if you are a 4.0 student and do not need any remedial schooling, the answer to NAPS is YES.</p>

<p>After spending most of my military career training Junior Officers and training my son to be an intelligent, proactive and caring officer and leader, I realized I should have been training him to be a USNA applicant instead. There is a huge difference. A polished applicant gets the ticket. All those other things my son had, get you nothing but a peek.</p>

<p>The Navy is awesome. I wish all the applicants nothing but a golden ticket. Two of my closest friends, (one a flag officer class of 67, and the other an O-6 class of 75) took two tries to get in. Train youself to be ready for multiple tries and see this as a two to three-year process.</p>

8

<p>w2lucky … First, thank you for sharing your letter. Powerful, painful reality check about this process. Most specifically, that no matter what seems obvious, or others may think, beyond looking at the general profile, there is no “chancing.” We’ve watched any number of candidates as amazingly strong and obviously qualified as your son disappointed, perhaps failed by the process. </p>

<p>What this illustrates is the harsh reality that while this process is competitive, it is too often not about merit. The best “man” does not always win. There will be many, make that MANY substantially less qualified Midshipmen taking the oath on I Day than a great many who were substantially more qualified. Increasingly, political correctness is to blame. Euphemistic language describes these cases. Sometimes it’s a function of political geography, i.e. that the Guamanians or Wyominguns had to receive their representation while there were many far stronger candidates living in Alexandria, Annapolis, or Pittsburgh. Some of it is athletics. If you see the splits on the NAPS and foundation appointees, a far different picture is painted than the company line. And all these things may be ho hum, fine, no problem in the general. But when it gets to the specific, in this case w2lucky’s very beloved and worthy “specific?” Well, then it’s not so great, so meritorious, so honorable and lofty. </p>

<p>The USNA offers a great education and spectacular opportunities to those fortunate enough to garner an appointment. None better. But none of those so blessed should ever place too much weight on the idea that appointments are fully merited. Less chest pounding and more knee bending is called for. God is good, but there are only so many slots, and the devil gets his due too.</p>

9

<p>Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day and out of 3700 posts, WP has had more than a few [but too many more than a few!] that are well-stated. This post is one of them.</p>

<p>The NA is not a perfect place.
The selection process is not perfect either. [Nor is it, for that matter, perfect at any of the civilian institutions.]
The mids are not perfect.
The administration is not perfect.</p>

<p>It is what it is . . . and sometimes that bites.</p>

10

<p>while it is easy to point a finger at the process, I am not sure if it is the process that fails- </p>

<p>sometimes there is something in a students file that impacts the decision, perhaps a situation that parents are not aware of. It could be as simple as a teacher recommendation that reveals a character flaw, or a comment made at an interview that sends up a cautionary flag. Or perhaps something that was said/done/an attitude picked up at NASS that makes it into the candidate’s file. Or maybe none of that at all- maybe just coming from a very competetive area. Maybe the day the file is reviewed it is one of MANY sellar files. Confidentiality trumps the parents need for answers to the “why” and that is a tough pill to swallow.</p>

<p>As imperfect as the system is, it is more perfect than most, and certainly more transparent. At least candidates know - to a good degree- what they need to have to be competetive, and that is the first step. Most even know what elements impact the whole-person score- that is posted in several books and easy enough to find. </p>

<p>If the interest is there, then do encourage your son/daughter to reapply.</p>

11

<p>WP and you old salts. Thanks for the kind words. Navy 2010 hit it on the head with his last sentence. The kid thinks his (and my) Navy world has let him down and the year long process is painful to all invoved. He didn’t apply to multiple academy’s like many kids do hoping to get a bite, he’s Navy through and through. To ask a kid to try again, is beyond the realm of empathy and touches on abusive. Without any useful feedback from the Naval Academy it seems really like a dumb thing to do at this point.</p>

<p>My son has stopped running every day and lifting weights. He has been accepted at an excellent University and seems to be focused there. When I asked him if he would consider an OCS commission, his response was, “Only a fool thinks a non-Naval Academy officer gets the same opportunities in the Navy as a USNA graduate does. I didn’t want just the education there, I wanted to be a good leader.” As a Mustang, I know how it really is out there, so I had to give him his space. But enough about us. Yes it’s a painful process but it also is life-changing. For the better.</p>

<p>I had the pleasure of visiting Annapolis last year and I’ve never seen such a beautiful “campus” in my life. Those that do get selected are very fortunate and hopefully understand how truly lucky they are and do what it takes to be the best there. Anything else would be an insult to the thousands of kids (and old salts) that would give a toe to be there in their shoes. Go Navy!</p>

12

<p>w2lucky,So sorry to hear of your S’s disappointment. He sounds like a great kid who deserved a spot just as much as the next guy. However, if he gets over this setback and still wants to be a Navy officer please let him know that a non-USNA grad. can still have great opportunities.</p>

<p>My S didn’t apply to USNA. He applied for a NROTC scholarship instead. He worked really hard through his four years at big state u. He focused all his efforts on getting an EOD slot on Service Selection day as did his roommate/best friend.
They both got in EOD. That year there were twelve selected from NROTC and twelve for USNA. When S and his friend got to Panama City for Dive school, they were in a class of about twenty-five. There were three NROTC ensigns and three USNA ensigns in the class.<br>
As I’m sure you know, EOD school is a long brutal climb.<br>
When all was done, only three of the six ensigns made it through EOD school. It was the three NROTC guys.<br>
Did not post this to be disparaging to USNA but to let those not chosen know, that there are still exciting opportunities available for those determined to get there. S loves Navy EOD and can’t imagine doing anything else.</p>

13

<p>Well put PackMom. The USNA is not the Navy. It’s a school. Kudos to your son for being quite the example. I do know alot about EOD (almost family) and his efforts are noteworthy. As the USNA continues to search for football players, they are letting too many intelligent (and high EQ also, look it up) and morally sound candidates slip through the cracks. </p>

<p>You mentioned “not to disparage” the USNA, but I think it’s high time the truth is made available to all these kids who see the USNA as one thing, when it really is another. It’s a highly subjective selection process and all the things they recommend a kid do to get in, are easily trumped by one subjective person (or group of people). Dean (Capt) Latta travels around the country handing out Letters of Acceptance to football players (Google his name and see all the photos), but few others. That tells me that it’s not about what this kid will be in 5 years (when the games are over), it’s about what he can offer the USNA now. When I’m at GQ in a high stress real war environment, I want someone next to me that is smart, calm, and thinking clearly. Sorry Dean Latta but I don’t want your ex-linebacker football player next to me.</p>

<p>We should be evaluating and wisely selecting our future leaders, and instead we’re looking for a fast defensive end. That is the truth.</p>

<p>For the kid who keeps posting his entire biography on the other USNA strings and asking if he has a chance - Son, there is no way with such a low GPA and no football do you even get a look. No one wants to tell you the truth because they want to be PC. Find another way.</p>

14

<p>Posts such as above are always intriguing.
What point is the poster trying make?</p>

<p>Does he/she think ANY high-level universtity admissions program is not subjective? Name one, please, that relies exclusively on a [supposed] objective measure such as SAT.</p>

<p>How does one go about “evaluating and wisely selecting” future leaders if not by subjective standards?</p>

<p>Assuming there are some football players who do not “deserve” to be at the Naval Academy, the same argument could be made at most [if not all] high-level educational institutions. If the football player graduates, he deserves the title “ENS” as much as anybody else. Even if he is last in the class.</p>

<p>USNA represents itself as a leaderhip laboratory. It is that and more: It is a life laboratory. And most any person will acknowledge that life is not fair.</p>

15

<p>Like Bill says, ALL universities have a subjective system. At least I don’t know of any that don’t. (unless it’s 100% acceptance rate). There was a rep from Yale speaking to my niece a few years back that I think summed their process up well. I am paraphrasing but it went like this.</p>

<p>If you get to this point in the process, any one of you would be an outstanding student here and have every confidence in achieving success. You are all more than capable. So, how do we decide to take X student and not Y when stats are similar? Or backgrounds are so completely different? They look at the entire picture (one you and I don’t see) and aren’t really looking for each specific student; but for a group as a whole that will compliment each other and the university best. This means that some people seemingly “less qualified” may get accepted while others aren’t and it doesn’t make sense on an individual basis. But as a whole, it all fits like pieces in a puzzle to make up who and what the university wants to be. </p>

<p>So, let’s say you are that perfect right corner piece of the puzzle. You fit beautifully. But they already have that piece. Well, unless you fit somewhere else in the puzzle, then you are out. That’s the way it goes and it doesn’t mean the university is flawed. All of the top universities have been doing this for a very long time. Do they make mistakes individually? You bet they do. But year after year, they churn out top graduates so, as a whole, it works. </p>

<p>You can’t sweat it too much in the end as it’s a process. I will tell you that my daughter was initially rejected. Ended up there anyway (long story) and the first year in the fleet won the Navy Foundation Leadership award. So, I guess that worked out.</p>

<p>For the OP, apply in the summer for the NROTC scholarships as you improve your chances of gaining both the scholarship as well as top pick for which university you would like as your number one the earlier you apply. At least how it used to be was, the pool of applicants is reviewed each month. You either get an offer or are pushed to the next month. So, the earlier in, the more look-sees you get. Do this while getting your USNA application in and then if you don’t get USNA, you will already be set up for the ROTC school. </p>

<p>Good luck to you.</p>