Hi
DS20 is planning on Math and/or CS major (either dual major or major/minor).
Among his list of colleges, he is planning to do EA at some of: GeorgiaTech, UIUC, UMd-CP, Michigan and Northeastern. Which colleges gives any admission boost for applying in EA cycle. (note that this is for EA and not the binding ED)
He is planning to apply in EA only to some of them - because he got couple bad grades in Junior year lowering his overall UW-GPA. He is expecting to do well in 1st semester senior year and/or will have some additional positive info to add by RD cycle. So want to strategize in a way that he can use any benefit of EA boost but also save some apps for later to apply with any potential positive info later during RD. So trying to short list the colleges for EA vs RD.
He is OOS for all colleges named above; based on school Naviance scattergrams - he has fair chance at all of them but then I have doubts about its accuracy and also the results are not major specific (based on anecdotal evidence - all these univ have major differences in admit rates for cs vs non-cs majors). Looking for a sense of admission boost if there is any by doing EA
PS: he visited all of them and likes - his main college selection criteria is academic and research facilities and all of them are equally appealing.
Take caution when using the Naviance results. The schools and the CS major he is looking at are considerably more competitive to get in to than the schools on the whole. Those Naviance numbers are probably reflecting admittance for all majors.
EA to a match and a safety, but if his stats are expected to improve, save GT, UIUC, UMD, Michigan and Northeastern for RD. When youāre applying to CS, these schools are in the āreaches for everyoneā category.
Other than demonstrating interest in the university, submitting EA to UMich doesnāt appear to boost your application. IMO, youāre ākeeping up with the Joneses.ā
The numbers are from the Class of 2022 (detailed numbers arenāt out for Class of 2023, but # of total apps increased by less than 1,000), but of the total apps of 65,000 to UMich, almost 40,000 applied EA. And of those approx. 40,000 EA apps, 50% of the acceptances (7,500-8,000) of the total acceptances of 15,000, were from the EA batch.
Thus, roughly a 20% EA acceptance rate. The overall acceptance rate was 23%. Of course, overall OOS acceptances were 19%.
Two other things. First, the two most important factors in admission at UMich are uwGPA and course rigor. The overall GPA for the Class of 2023 was 3.9. So, chance(s) of acceptance will ride heavily on the uwGPA. Second, your son can apply to the CS program at UMich via the School of LSA or CoE. Acceptance to the CoE will be a bit more difficult than LSA. Both CS programs are similar.
Northeastern tends to defer a lot of EA applicants, so I think doing EA would be best there - it will help show interest which they emphasize in various ways, EA being one of them. I donāt think thereās a large boost for it, but for interest alone I would EA.
Stats:
SAT1: 1590 (800Math)
SAT-Subjects: 800ās in Math-L2, Math-L1 and Physics; 760 in Chem
GPA-UW: 3.8 ā this is the concern
GPA-W: 4.85 out of 5.0
Rank: top 5% of class of around 450
Rigor: highest with 13 APās completed by end of senior year (5ās in all completed APās except one with a 4); rest of credits are Honors. he completed Calc an CS APās; doing Multivariable Calc and Linear Algebra through a community college as senior year courses (exhausted school math/cs classes)
ECās: would rate average+/good with consistency and leadership roles in 4 academic oriented clubs; summer research with a prof; varsity sport; marathon runner (not competitive but completed one race). State level awards and wins in math/cs/science competitions; 2xAIME qualifier;
The concern is UW-GPA (think most universities look at that) but his rank is not bad at <5%. The bad grades were in Spanish (2 Bās out of 4 levels he took others A-), English (1 B+), Chem (1 B+). The problem is: 2 of his Bās are in sophomore and 2 in Junior (btw all his Bās are in non-AP courses - he did better in AP courses).
The improvements we are hoping for are in first semester grades (because he is not taking his dreaded Spanish ) - especially the math course he is taking in CC. The dilemma is - his first semester school grades will not be available until after the RD deadline. By the RD deadline, he will have 1st quarter grades but school does not report quarterly grades - so we thought of adding the CC grade + quarterly grades in the additional info section. Not sure if this can be perceived as enough improvement (i.e. 1st quarter results and maybe one college math course grade). I assumed it is - but invite opinions.
@PengsPhils - thanks for the info about NE. It is actually one of his main target - school sends a big contingent every year; and fwiw scattergrams are very favorable (but then again scattergrams are not major specific). We were also thinking of doing EA at NE.
Advice/thoughts on other univ will be appreciated.
According to the UMich CDS, class rank is NOT considered.
Hereās my guess for you S at UMich. Heās deferred EA and then accepted during RD. I have a gut feeling that not taking a foreign language for 4 years may āhurtā his chance(s). We live in CA, and the Top UCās find that 4th year of foreign language highly desirable. I kinda think UMich is the same IMO.
And there were plenty of instances where kids from OOS applied EA with 3.8 uwGPAās and accepted during RD.
UMich does have a top math and CS department. Iām not as familiar with the other schools.
His stats are good! Iād do EA at all of the schools you listed. fwiw, GT likes to see a Calc grade so they might waitlist him, but I know from multiple family and friends that they will overlook Bs in Spanish. lol.
You could be right about the 4 years of language - but just to add more info, he started Spanish in middle school (never liked but kept at it anyway) - based on his completed Spanish courses he was placed in Spanish-2 in freshman year and did Spanish-3 and Spanish-4 in sophomore and junior years. So completed highest non-AP Spanish course but didnāt opt for Spanish AP (it is offered in the school). As you said it may hurt at some places for not taking in senior year but he wasnāt enjoying and grades are going down. We knew that it maybe an issue at some places but it is a decision taken after weighing all things.
Totally understand. FWIW, while I have one kid at UMich, I also have a HS junior not liking the HS Spanish too. Although, all Aās in Spanish thus far. For senior year, Iām suggesting to my kid to take the 4th year of foreign language.
Again, Iām opining. That 4th year of FL in HS may not even matter to colleges on your Sās list.
Yeah go ahead and apply EA as there is a low chance any of the schools listed will flat out reject him. At worst he would be deferred and then he would be able to submit updated grades for RD anyway. For GT that will at least put him in the running for some of their merit scholarships.
For reference, last year my son applied EA to GT and UofM and RD to UIUC for Chemical Engineering (so not quite as completive as CS). He was deferred at GT and UofM and accepted at UIUC. Then in RD he did get accepted at GT and w/l at Uof M (which he did not accept since he preferred GT). His SAT scores were lower by over 100 pts than your sons (mostly on the verbal side). His GPA was 3.98uw with 14 AP level classes and completing math through differential equations. He had one B one semester in AP English 11. I would say the class rigor between the two is similar.
I do have one question, what is the weighting scale at his HS? My sonās was 5pts for an AP or dual enrollment A and 4.5 for an Honors A and they didnāt do + or - . So his weighted gpa end of JR year was 4.60 and then 4.65 at graduation. The chance of your sons unweighted gpa changing much in 1 semester is small. My sons unweight gpa was 3.98 end of JR year and even after getting all A it was still a 3.98 end of SR year.
Its similar at sons school - 5 for an A in AP (an additional .2bump for A+); think for honors its 4.5 for an A. So theoretical max in the school is 5.2 but since there are restriction on when and how many APās they can take the practical max is 5.0. School does +/- to the letter grades with some additional bump for A+. Son has 4.85 W and 3.83 UW - I think the discrepancy for his W/UW and your sons maybe because of +/- and since DS did really well in AP courses (especially math/science A+'s) but so-so in some honors classes. With add-on bump for A+ in AP courses he got better W. Fortunately, school ranks based on W and reports only W on their official transcript. But I heard colleges may recalculate with no +/- (?) in which case it will be 3.8UW.
In terms of course rigor, he took 13 in-class AP courses (by end of senior year) + an additional 2 self studied AP tests (those 2 courses are not offered in the school).
Its true that his GPA may not change much after first semester - the main hope is on his Multivariable calculus (results are out by Dec 15th - he is doing so far well - knock on wood). Plus the research he is doing with a prof could be in better shape by end of Dec. Hope is that they both can give a wee bit of a boost. This is all my (wishful) thinking - end of the day he will be applying to all the colleges above either in EA or RD. Just dont want him get rejected outright in EA because of couple bad grades in junior year.
@soxdad I think he will be fine for EA. They will see he is currently taking MVC/LA which is beyond what is available at his school and they will see his previous math grades. My son was in the middle of a research mentorship with NASA last year during the the application process. He was able to put it on his application, but unfortunately he was not able to claim being published as that didnāt happen until after college admissions were done. So unless his research will be truly published by the end Dec, I donāt think it will make much of a difference as long he has research involvement.
I am not going to tell you that he is going to get accepted to all or any of those schools as OOS for CS is so competitive but I just donāt see him getting knock out in the EA round with his stats as they are now.
Also, remember that at some places, like University of Maryland, you will not be considered for honors, special programs, etc. unless you apply āpriorityā (early). Your sons grades and scores look great! I wouldnāt miss out on the possible benefits of early application at Maryland.
@soxdad I believe I read your sonās math classes incorrectly. If he has taken AP Calc already I think he is a very competitive applicant for GT and I doubt he gets waitlisted.
DS20 scheduled a meeting with GC next week - to clarify on the school policy for sending quarter grades for EA schools - great to know that typically high schools send this (I didnāt know that earlier - and based on official transcript format of his school, assumed that final transcript will have no quarter grades). If they do update that info to EA schools, he will apply to most of them in EA and hope for the best.
Also DS20 is working on his 2nd draft of commonapp essay - and have drafts of UMich and GT supplements (advantage of applying to summer programs) - so maybe he will be able to make it to the Oct 15 deadline for GT (Nov 1st for others).
) - especially the math course he is taking in CC. The dilemma is - his first semester school grades will not be available until after the RD deadline. By the RD deadline, he will have 1st quarter grades but school does not report quarterly grades - so we thought of adding the CC grade + quarterly grades in the additional info section. Not sure if this can be perceived as enough improvement (i.e. 1st quarter results and maybe one college math course grade). I assumed it is - but invite opinions.
Although, all Aās in Spanish thus far. For senior year, Iām suggesting to my kid to take the 4th year of foreign language.