<p>alot of new religions aren't cults</p>
<p>mormonism is quite new, and several other denominations of christianity are aso not cults, also conservative judaism, under 100 years old, not a cult.</p>
<p>some fundamental chrstians will tell you mormonism is a cult.</p>
<p>It's a bit of a stretch to call conservative judaism a new religion. It just practices judaism differently than the orthodox and reform but it certainly isn't adding new "facts" like mormonism.</p>
<p>
<p>goat4d: That "argument by disbelief" is really very weak. I could explain to you how what you just described doesn't really mean anything, but instead, I'm going to recommend 2 books to you:</p>
<p>The first is The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, which is considered by many to be one of the best-written books on evolutionary biology for laypersons.</p>
<p>Second is Climbing Mount Improbable, also by Dawkins, which addresses the argument you just made, among others.</p>
<p>In a nutshell, though, the argument you made makes little to no sense. Yes, life is complicated. However, it's much more of a stretch to say its origin was a designer than its origin being incremental changes based on a known and verified principle (natural selection). Also, life didn't "come from nothing". The Big Bang occurred, and through well-documented and researched processes (stellar evolution etc.) created the wide variety of atoms and stars and planets and galaxies etc. etc. etc. On Earth, it is unclear how the first life started, but there are a number of excellent theories involving the primordial seas that Earth was covered in early in its lifetime.</p>
<p>Since it takes entire books to properly cover the arguments, I'm not going to be able to suitably expound on them in a post of any reasonable length. The fact is, there are excellent explanations for many of the "arguments from incredulity" floating around out there. I really think that, if you are to be reasonable, saying "I think it's ridiculous that x could be created/evolve by y" obligates you to at least make yourself knowledgeable about the explanations for how that happens.
</p>
<p>I'd love to get my hands on one of Dawkins' books sometime, especially "The God Delusion". I recently signed up on his forum, and it has been fun to discuss matters of religion and science with other atheists there (as well as a few theists).</p>
<p>I wont read the books because I know they are false, no reason to waste my time.</p>
<p>Ahh, Dawkins. Brilliant man. Love his books.</p>
<p>As you can see, I am an atheist, but I have no problem with religious folks as long as their mutually respectful.</p>
<p>I'm a deist. If you wanna know about it, google it or ask me.</p>
<p>Neutrino: I can't recommend Dawkins's books too highly. They are spectacular. I especially recommend The Selfish Gene (seminal work), The God Delusion (really spells out in a very coherent way Dawkins's thoughts on religion), and A Devil's Chaplain, which is a collection of essays, letters, articles, etc. They are extremely insightful, inspiring, sometimes emotional, but always fascinating.</p>
<p>i feel alienated at church...but the most difficult thing for me is reading the bible or praying on a habitual basis. i'm either too lazy or too preoccupied with the world!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>I'm Muslim. I like reading about both historical theology and progressive interpretations of the Qur'an. I don't go to the mosque or pray regularly though -- I wish I could find a Muslim community I'd mesh well with. Here's for hoping there is such a thing at the college I'm heading to in the fall.</p>
<p>It's easy to succumb to modernity in terms of abandoning all non-individualistic spirituality, and I would like to salute everyone in this thread (and beyond) that's taken that leap back into faith on their own terms as I have. </p>
<p>I actually used to be hardcore atheist -- today I'm not so sure hardcore denial of the concept of "holy" is the way to go, maturity-wise, honest-to-yourself-wise. I respect it of course, and sympathize with many of the feelings atheists have towards what is perceived as irrationality. Still I think religion is an important thing to keep alive, if not always respect unconditionally.</p>
<p>Why do I seriously doubt you were ever a "hardcore" atheist?</p>
<p>Huey, I used to print out "scriptural inconsistencies" manuals and go around local places of worship and hand them out. Granted, I was 12 and rebellious as the age commanded, but it was a bit over the top. I'm not sure what you are suggesting?</p>
<p>^^LMAO. I would never have the nerve to do that. If anyone did that where I lived, he/she would be shot and/or crucified.</p>
<p>frrrph: I think the reason HueyFreeman is questioning it is that what many people would consider a hardcore atheist is one who is so opposed to the irrationality of religion that they refuse to believe in it.</p>
<p>Even though religion feels right in many ways, makes intuitive sense in many ways, and is a very welcoming idea, most hardcore atheists never become religious. Face it, if you're actually a hardcore atheist, you have major issues with the very basic tenets of religion, that are incompatible with ever becoming religious.</p>
<p>
I actually used to be hardcore atheist -- today I'm not so sure hardcore denial of the concept of "holy" is the way to go, maturity-wise, honest-to-yourself-wise. I respect it of course, and sympathize with many of the feelings atheists have towards what is perceived as irrationality. Still I think religion is an important thing to keep alive, if not always respect unconditionally.
</p>
<p>Respect unconditionally? After all the conflict religion has caused over the years, after all the brainwashing it has done to children, after all it has done to try to get creationism taught in the science classroom (Only Southern Christians there, however)?</p>
<p>I can respect some of the things religion does, such as give people motivation to do good things. However, I think people would truly be good if they helped others without the idea that they were "scoring points for the afterlife".</p>
<p>I am technically Catholic, but I guess you could say I'm a practicing agnostic.</p>
<p>My dad's a baptist church minister and I grew up in a hardcore religious family (dun worry my parents aren't psychotic, forcing down their beliefs down everybody's throats. Just mine. hahaha jk jk. No seriously, they like harry potter, my dad loves watching movies of all types, etc.(we watched saw together actually) He doesn't stop me from watching horror movies or anything because that would drive me INSANE!!) However, I no longer want to be baptist christian, they are too conservative for me at times. I'm somewhat religious, but I'm really not as much as I should be, considering my dad's work and all =_=;; I dunno, I really find bible study and church camps a hassle, because I had to goto SO MANY OF THEM ever since i can remember.</p>
<p>PLUS i hate that atmosphere with everybody crying and asking for forgiveness on usually the last day of church camps. I find it... so fake. Alot of people forget about the feelings that had several days later anyway</p>
<p>actually, when i was in 5th grade and then in middle school, I went to church EVERYDAY because my dad worked there, and even my school was in my church. on top of that my wednesdays, fridays, christmas, new years, thanksgiving, sunday, etc were always consumed by church. i think that threw me off a little bit...
because on wednesdays and fridays I would pretty much stay at church until midnight, from 6 o clock...</p>
<p>
[quote]
What do you guys think of the Westboro Baptist Church (the definition of radical religion)? They scare me...a LOT.
[/quote]
Oh the baptist convention NEVER accepted them officially btw, and I don't thinkt hey are planning to. They are extreme, and even though I'm christian, I think they are psychotic and going a little bit overboard. Don't think of these people as standard christians, that just isn't right.</p>
<p>I'm atheist</p>
<p>
I wont read the books because I know they are false, no reason to waste my time.
</p>
<p>Ooh, missed this tidbit from before. Nothing like a good old religious "if I don't lisetn to the argument it can't be valid" ostrich move to round out a discussion nicely.</p>
<p>I guess I'll take the bait: Since you know they're false, that implies you've read them. Please summarize the Selfish Gene for me.</p>
<p>
Oh the baptist convention NEVER accepted them officially btw, and I don't thinkt hey are planning to. They are extreme, and even though I'm christian, I think they are psychotic and going a little bit overboard. Don't think of these people as standard christians, that just isn't right.
</p>
<p>While that may be true, whether the oversight committee of the day accepts a church is official is really water under the bridge. What is important is that these people think they are Christians, and get their (misguided) teachings from Christianity, and act as though there is no doubt to their Christianity. For all intents and purposes, that makes them Christians.</p>
<p>While I agree with you, they're completely extreme, very misguided, and have little or nothing to do with mainstream Christians, saying "they're not like us so they're not standard Christians" is a tough argument to pass, since at one point or another almost every Christian church has said that about another denomination.</p>
<p>Ya know, even though I'm truly an atheist, I've started calling myself an agnostic only so I don't get associated with Sam Harris, Dan Dennet, or Christopher Hitchens. Christian evangelicals are the only thing that annoy me more then this new breed of atheist evangelicals. </p>
<p>If someone seriously believes that all religious people are brainwashed zombies who want nothing but violence and destruction then they obviously have never actually been in the real world, or actually meet very many people. Live and let live. We were always taught that it's wrong to judge an entire race on what a minority of that race did, and I feel the same about religion. The world needs more tolerance, not less.</p>
<p>I don't recommend converting to Catholicism.</p>
<p>Of course, the above line has nothing to do with the time I got into an argument with my confirmation class about abortion and birth control. I called them on their "condoms kill babies before they are born" (actual catholic church teachings, look it up) bs, they told me that it was true because the pope said so, and I called the pope an idiot. The twenty or so hateful stares alluded that I was never allowed back in that confirmation class.</p>
<p>In unrelated news, I'm an agnostic.</p>